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I hear you and I agree but it’s deeper for me. The cultural ignorance of so many decisions is the same “rot” that has doomed so many beloved nameplates over the years. The launch and abandon mindset is built into the culture. It was almost eradicated under Mulally but it grew back. Had Ford followed through with the original plan for a CD6F based Edge, it would’ve been out for MY2022 almost 3 years ago. When the CD6F Edge was shelved in 2020 that’s when China started to develop their own C2 Edge (and Nautilus). The company just can’t stay focused. Things get boring and change direction when the wind blows in a different direction. Mulally was adamant about consistency and continuous improvement but with Ford the lesson is never learned. I’m sorry I could go on for hours on this.

You contribute a lot to the BOF community from your perspective. I just want to acknowledge publicly how much your input is appreciated. Thank you!

You bring up a great point. I’m glad I’m starting my apprenticeship now so my kids will be able to see the sacrifices I’m making to provide for them, at least the older two. The youngest being 3 probably won’t understand until I’m nearly finished.

That is officially the stupidest thing you’ve ever said here. Even worse than your autonomous car bullshit.

You can't change the world if you aren't making any money.

So I took the delivery of my silver radiance '24 Nautilus reserve hybrid in December last year and just hit 1500 miles on it. I was too lazy to write review but then I saw Gurgeh's great review in another post, I decide to offer my two cents? The '24 Nautilus is my second Ford vehicle, last one been a '06 Mondeo made by Ford China's Chongqing plant which was a mixed bag. The first thing I noticed is the great improvement in build quality. The Mondeo was mediocre at best while the Nautilus' body and interior panels are almost perfectly aligned. A few( ~15) out of the owners‘ group I was at that has 400+ members now claim that the sensors behind steering wheel are slightly inclined but other than that, I don't see much complaints. Kudos to Ford China for making huge progress in the last 20 years! Luckily my neighbor owns a '21 2.7 v6 Nautilus so I can switch and compare with mine. Both our cars have 21 inch wheels but mine has 255/50 tire while my neighbor's has 265/40 tire which is more sport oriented and frigile. I'm quite happy with this change as the new tires are less vunerable to potholes? Theoretically, thicker tires make the ride less bumpy but I feel the difference is negligible. Acceleration wise, my hybrid is just a tiny bit slower than the v6 when doing 0-60, like 7 sec. vs 6.5 sec. BUT when doing 0-40, the hybrid feels quickerdue to the electric motor. Also the hybrid is extremely smooth as the e-cvt doesn't have any gear. Steering is typical Ford - light and 'loose' during low speed which I personally don't like. Suspension is now made of steel instead of aluminum but still filrt the bumps and shocks pretty well. A perfect example of American land yacht. Interior space is HUUUUGE. Blows every single competitor in the same class out of water. I set my seat pass the B pillar and there's still plenty of leg room in the back for a 5'11 adult male. The trunk is massive as well and mine comes with a spare tire which is always a plus. The back seats are also adjustable and are long enough to hold my leg. I get over the lack of physical buttons pretty quick, but still think Ford should have keep the buttons for AC adjustment. The left side buttons on steering wheel are for the Blue Cruise and the right side ones are for music, volume and voice command. The belt screen allows my wife to watch movies while driving and the sound come through her headphone and don't interfere with music . It's a must have for me now? As for fuel consumption. CIty mpg is around 25~28 depending on the traffic and high way mpg is around 35. The highest mpg I achieved is 42 crusing at 40 mph.

As much as us enthusiasts would have liked a RWD edge I think the C2 version would have been more successful. I think this is Farley’s personality showing in product decisions. Going too fast on new things and having to stop and change direction when issues come up or something more enticing. Ditching Edge and Nautilus for BEVs instead of building a new plant, then ditching the Rivian deal before it really got started (severe lack of due diligence on that one), starting then stopping the VW platform. Too much short term thinking trying to go too fast.

I used to get jealous when I was younger watching the neighbors drive super expensive cars until I realized they were just over leveraged and not saving anything. Now as I get ready to retire we have 2 nice vehicles paid for, a very nice house that will be paid off within a year and 2 very sizable 401Ks plus 2 pensions. Discipline pays off.

My brother in Christ, Ford is simply trying to balance following, and leading in market trends. They're still investing billions of dollars in EV development, they're still investing in hybrid development. It's not like they're acting like blockbuster in the age of Netflix. They're just trying to balance supply with demand. The reality is, outside of coastal states, EVs really haven't taken off yet, and likely won't for at least 5 or 10 years. You can't make money on cars that don't sell, and EVs aren't selling relative to ICE. Yeah, you'll go out of business if you stay in the past. But you'll also go out of business spending 50 billion dollars on EV development when you're only selling 100k EVs a year. There's a balance, and Ford has found it. Pushing electric cars on people is just hurting the electric car cause, we have to let people come naturally to these products, and they will. But no-one likes having things forced on them. Ford needs to get the cost of their EVs down, and make them more appealing, less compromised vehicles, and they're doing both of these things as we speak. It's gonna be ok, it's just gonna take a little longer than expected. It's better to take your time and do it right, rather than rush things out the door and alienate your customers.

Yeah, Ford has a bad habit of extending out refreshes well past their prime (and past 3-year leases), de-contenting on those extended refreshes, and then wondering where customers went. Duh buyers aren't going to buy the same vehicle with less content for more money than before..... He won't be happy until ICE = 0% and BEV = 100%, because BEV = unicorn farts and rainbows for everyone!!!!!

This interior is not new for Lincoln. Remember the Mark VIII dashboard? Very futuristic for 1993.

FTFY

I believe most of us (except one) said that GMs all EV plans with no hybrids was pretty risky and Ford was in a better position by releasing Mach-e and lightning early and keeping HEVs and PHEVs. Production issues and rising costs prevented Mach-E and Lightning from being runaway hits but I think Ford gained valuable experience. I don’t think they can pivot Oakville back to edge/nautilus very easily due to suppliers. Keeping the current vehicles wouldn’t be smart even if the suppliers could continue. They still need BOC and T3 for sure. It’s probably too late to change Aviator/Explorer at Oakville. I would look to put all other EVs in Mexico and do the following: Add a hybrid option to Bronco Sport, Ranger and Bronco. Replace Escape with a Maverick based SUV - larger and cheaper than Bronco Sport without the off-road chops. Add C2 Edge (new not the Chinese version) and Nautilus to Louisville along with Corsair with HEV options for all. That makes 6 C2 vehicles split between the 2 plants with the same powertrains (1.5, 2.0, 2.3 plus HEVs and PHEVs).

Fixed it for you

Having unelected political activists with no factory or union experience who have openly stated that they want chaos, class warfare and to wound the companies for months ticks me off. Describes these guys as carnies because they sweep in, reap destruction and then move on. They don't care if they kill the company as long as they achieve their mission. The article also illustrates that these knuckleheads sit directly next to Fain at negotiations, leaving negotiators openly asking who they are actually negotiating with? We didn't vote these guys in and yet it sounds like they're actually running the show. Really wish the Detroit 3 would take this to NLRB, file unfair labor practice and demand arbitration. Fain loses then.

This is so off-base...... For the record, the ONLY reason the F-150 is even built at the Rouge is because of Bill Ford. I was one of the managers of that '09-14 F-150 program and when that program started we closed Norfolk and were looking for another place to build it. Tere were other lower-cost options - including some non-UAW facilities. (Namely Mexico.) Bill Ford said no way. They decided to pay a lot more money to make it work in Dearborn. I keep thinking of those moments during this strike and part of me wishes they'd shut them all down and go non-union across the board. Would be better for the company in the long run. There have also been proposals over the years to even relocate the HQ out of the country. (Like Eaton when they "moved" to Ireland.) But again, the Ford's won't let it happen even though they know it would be better financially in the long run.

If I’m Ford, the lockouts would have started the second Fain’s livestream ended

You'd most likely lose that bet. Don't make assumptions just because they support your viewpoint.

Lincoln’s problem is it’s always been on a shoestring budget. The LS was held back by Jaguar. The rebadged MKX and MKZ were terrible as was the MKT. The MKS was the first step in the right direction. They let Navigator languish too long. They finally went all in on Aviator but ended up on a bespoke platform. Continental was good but hampered by cd4 platform and bland styling. I wonder where they would be now if they had done a cd6 Nautilus, Continental and Zephyr to go with Aviator with a full range of powertrains.

More bullshit. Right to work protects the workers from being forced to join a union. It does not suppress unions. I’m sitting 20 feet from union workers right now and we have a lot of unions in GA. My wife was in the union for 15 years and hated it because she was a high performer stuck in a seniority based system.

Is it difficult or easy to continually come up with these ridiculous takes to bend over backward in favor of BEV? 1) You're Comparing a vehicle that has 2 (or is it 3?) plants vs. 1/2 plant for Lightning. Naturally there's going to be higher inventory of the former than the latter. 2) You're comparing truck days supply to all vehicles, which is not a fair comparison, as days supply for trucks has always been higher than regular models because of the available configurations. How does 99 days supply compared to historical days supply for F-150? 3) As others have mentioned, credit/financing issues are going to start popping up, which will affect all powertrains, but is likely to hit ICE first with its broader customer base vs. Lightning. This "every little data blip is absolutely because ICE=bad/immediately dead and BEV=amazing" schtick is annoying.

No

We moved to a new server today - we'll be upgrading the site sometime later this week or next week.

I took delivery of my Black Label hybrid 2024 Nautilus yesterday. I'll probably do a more complete post on it later, but thought I would drop in here my impressions on how the hybrid drives. In short, it gives a truly impressive driving experience. In my view, it is so much better than the base 2.0 I4 turbo (which itself drives quite nicely) that I can't imagine anyone foregoing the modest $1,500 cost of the option, which can be chosen along with any other trim or option package. Ford wisely left the power train upgrade option on its own -- you aren't forced to combine it with anything else. I am coming from a 2019 Black Label with the lovely 2.7 twin turbo V6. I have enjoyed that nearly trouble-free vehicle for the last 5 years and thought the 2.7 V6 ecoboost couldn't be beat by the new hybrid. I was wrong. On paper, the 2.7 has more power and more torque. In the real world in which we actually drive, this unique new hybrid system delivers its power and torque in a way that makes the 2.7 feel, frankly, a little clunky and less powerful (even though, obviously, it isn't). This is the first hybrid vehicle I have driven or owned, but I think it all comes down to the way this particular hybrid set-up combines a more powerful ICE engine with an improved e-CVT. As you work your way through the gears in a standard transmission there is a certain sweet spot in any given gear. RPMs below that spot in that gear can make power feel a little sluggish and the torque just beyond reach. Above that level the engine can feel whiney, that it is overworking and really wants to be some other place. Now imagine if you had a transmission where you were never switching gears and where you were driving all the time in that specific sweet spot. The torque is always perfectly available and the power is always at its optimal point. That's what you get with this new hybrid configuration. You get terrific torque and power for a quick start and also for fast passing at highway speeds. But the improved driving feeling is due to more than just having a(n) (electronic) Continuously Variable Transmission. The ecoboost ICE engine and the electric motor pair together seamlessly, providing a driving feeling that is greater than the sum of its two parts. From start, you begin with the instant torque of the electric motor but then the ecoboost soon engages to keep the smooth and linear power surge going. If you didn't have an indicator on the dash showing when you are in electric-only or combined mode you would rarely notice the frequent movement between the two modes. The engine is so quiet when you are driving it can be difficult to tell when it is on -- this is particularly so since you never feel any shifting gears. So, after having driven MKXs/Nautilus in their four power train configurations -- the new hybrid configuration, the 2.7 ecoboost V6, the 2.0 turbo I4, and the older MKX base naturally aspirated V6 -- I would rate the driving experience of those four power trains in that order, though none of them were bad. I should probably just leave my initial driving impression at that, but there are a couple more things about the new Nautilus that are worth mentioning, purely from a driving standpoint. The vehicle feels lighter and more nimble, the suspension simultaneously more comfortable and responsive. I reluctantly went with the 22" wheels because, frankly, I had to if I wanted a Black Label (which I very much wanted for the improved interior materials and especially improved seating surface which makes the upgrade seats the most comfortable seats I've ever driven in). But the drive quality on those 22" wheels are actually better than on the 21" wheels from my outgoing 2019 Nautilus. I looked at the two vehicles side-by-side when I took in my 2019 to trade in and was surprised that the 22" wheels looked like they had more rubber than my old 21" wheels. The overall rim/tire combination on the new Nautilus appears higher than on the previous generation Nautilus, allowing for more rubber, though maybe it is just an optical illusion and maybe the improved drive quality all comes from an improved adaptive suspension. Don't know, but this is definitely the best quality ride of any vehicle I've ever owned. It obviously doesn't handle like a mustang, but it is a Lincoln and that is not what the brand is all about. That said, given the physics of a tall mid-sized crossover the handling was not bad. I have some nitpicks with the new Nautilus (I mean, who came up with the idea of removing the bottle slot from the door storage area?), but I'm putting those aside for now until I'm ready to do a more complete review of the vehicle.

No shit Sherlock. You reap what you sow.

Not completely true. My wife nicknamed her 2020 Escape Karen. She could be a real b*$ch with all her sensors going off when there appeared to be no need! LOL!

First time I looked at a Tesla Model 3 was at a display in a mall. The steering wheel was uncomfortably low, so after unsuccesfully looking for a control or lever on side of steering column I asked a sales person for help. She didn't know how to adjust either. A second salesman pointed out the correct method, which involved going into a menu on touch screen, assigning the two dials on steering wheel to control the steering column adjust, then finally using those wheels to adjust the steering wheel (one moved it up/down, the second in/out). In a rental car this would be super annoying. Controlling everything through touch screen sounds cool but can also be non-intuitive and annoying. And this is from a guy who works in tech. Infotainment systems are biggest source of new car complaints on JD Power. I wonder how much of it is due to actual hardware issues, and how much is user frustration.

Goodbye...

I know he genuinely loves stories like this. This young girl with terminal cancer who loves Ford broncos. All these bronco owners near us came out and threw her a parade. That's really cool, and an excellent example of what makes the car community so special. We need more stories like this in life. https://youtu.be/V_xItDfLqA4?si=19Al-XUUhNPIIaSY

After 3+ years of price gouging customers with ADM's and useless options, maybe the Dealers would like to see a survey of how trustworthy THEIR customers feel about them,,,,, HRG

Im liable to punch the next person that says that word to my face. I’m tired of hearing that and hold the line. So much so, I don’t ever want to hear the song Hold the Line by Toto ever again for the rest of my life.

I have no doubt you’ll be successful and your kids probably will too.

13 jobs spanning 52 years and 4 career changes (not including military service), here. "What a long strange trip it's been," indeed! The lesson for me was, don't trade personal freedom for cradle-to-grave security. My first full time job taught me that. I worked as a Teamster on a vacuum cleaner assembly line, making nearly what Ford TCAP line people were making, after 6 months. After that, just a matter of gaining seniority for more vacation & bumping rights. Personally, I never understood the practice of calling the employer "Unfair." I agreed to do the work under the physical and financial provisions of the agreement in place. The next 40-ish years didn't look promising to me, but i got the blue collar complacency and stayed until the company left 17 years later. The security blanket was ripped off and I was out in the cold. I stumbled around selling life insurance, doing various other unskilled jobs, and later selling cars. A bankruptcy and a separation, later, I went to truck driving school and "paid my dues" working my way through successive employers, proving my worth and overcoming the challenges along the way. I was accepted at a Hazardous Material Special Waste Hauler company earning the industry's top wages (More miles, more smiles).Today we live quite comfortably, having landed in retirement on our feet. I believe that our three children learned a lot from watching our struggles and how we worked through them. All are now employed in rewarding careers all have changed jobs and sought more training or education a few times, including my Union son, who risked leaving an assembly line job and started apprenticeship machinist training. 4 years of school, working third shift with two kids, and now a journeyman experimental engineering machinist, nearly doubling his income within the same company.

Read the rest of my post. Economic inequality? If you want the pay, do the job. Work your way up. Nobody is stopping you. Many successful CEOs have earned their MBA or whatever advanced degree while working full time. If you want it, go get it! This started with the 'everybody gets a trophy' crowd. Mind your own business, do what you do to the best of your ability, and if you don't feel you are fairly compensated, move on. Nobody is forcing you to stay.

Why should an average worker care what the CEO makes? If you want CEO pay, do what the CEO does...work your butt off to get the degree(s), put in the time to climb the ladder, and move up and take on the responsibility. Then you get to be on call 24x7x365, zero free time, zero work/life balance, the list goes on. There's a reason CEO's make what they make. Frankly, I don't want the responsibility nor the time commitment. The only one stopping anyone from being CEO is themselves. If you feel the CEO of your company makes too much, move on to a different company. If there are no better options to move to, then chances are, you're doing pretty well where you are, and maybe that CEO is doing something right to earn his/her pay.

Nobody is saying no we can’t do that. We’re just saying that widespread BEV adoption will be slower than some expected and if you go all in on 100% BEVs and ignore hybrids then you’ll simply be keeping more less efficient ICE vehicles on the road. It’s one thing to force adoption of something that is viable, but due to price and lack of public charging BEVs are only viable for a subset of the population and that’s not going to change quickly. It will take years of infrastructure upgrades and at least one more generation of batteries and production volume. Why not do everything possible to reduce emissions TODAY while still working towards BEVs. More hybrids won’t stop development of BEVs and once they’re viable you’ll see buyers naturally transition. And with that I’ll get off the soapbox.

Yesterday was my one year anniversary with my Lightning. Just over 17k miles. I’ve taken it to Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Indiana. Total charging cost: $1,268. A similar gas F150 would have used nearly $4k in gas. Average charge time (public/fast charging) was 27.54 minutes.

Just here to say that regardless of disagreements about the future of EVs there is no need for name calling and personal attacks.

They should call it the Ford Evolve - so yes, it plays into the "EV" EVolve naming scheme, but it also fits with Ford's "E" SUV naming scheme. Make the V's connected to a lightning bolt sort of thing......I quickly drew up a crude mock up....forgive the terrible scan:

I have a second to address this and hopefully I’m not speaking out of turn here. Yes the interior volume is nearly identical but the dimensions are different and I can sort of explain how. The cowl/dash panel (firewall) sits more upright than the outgoing model, I noticed that immediately when I first saw it on the line. It makes sense since that part is now shared with Bronco but with a different cowl top piece. I’m not sure how much detail I can go into so I’ll cut it there but that change allowed for a domino effect of alterations that made for a more spacious feeling cabin without having to make it physically bigger.

Happy wife, happy life! Thanks for your contribution to the build. HRG

Oh you mean the way Japan has been doing it for over 50 years. What a concept. Good to see he recognizes lack of engineering talent as a big contributor.

Can we please stop this nonsense? The EV and hybrid market isn't done, it's just not growing as quickly as originally projected. On this site, I'm always reading how everyone wants EVs, or no-one. Can we have a sense of proportionality and logic in our discussions from now on?

You not only saw it but reacted to it! Knock it off with your nonsense!

I get the feeling the stuff that remains to be settled is the stuff there’s no way on god’s green earth the company is going to agree to like pensions for all, post-retirement health care and the battery plant representation issue.

I truly believe its why the Maverick succeeded so well ( well at least initially, time will tell ) ....it was a product people liked and it was AFFORDABLE,.....

Another chapter in the mess known as Ford!

That’s a ridiculous statement. Spare us the trolling and take a 2 week vacation.