jpd80

Not necessarily, Ford Europe is managing to do it with Puma hybrid and BEV along with Tornio Courier in the same Romanian plant. Makes you wonder if we’re fed a certain narrative as an excuse to do clean sheet designs when perhaps the truth is that the lines are very blurred, depending on which way the accountants push the business case……

I think BOC is turning to shit, there’s more than enough BEV capacity at Dearborn, Ford just doesn’t want to admit it yet. Think, massive red ink because BEV sales haven’t significantly ramped up and Ford has this big ass plant in development, so something has to give, it can’t keep pushing back the timeline and pretending that hundreds and thousands of buyers are interested in buying a Lightning now or in two or three years time…..

I would add to that, Ford will probably message differently in the 18 states aligned with California an perhaps a few other pockets where BEVs have more sales traction. Like, using a bit more push advertising in those places and less emphasis in other areas where gas sales and hybrids do better. Nothing earth shattering in that…. There’s a ton of issues in flux at the moment but in the light of an aggressive UAW campaign, building compact BEVs at Louisville has become an untenable business case, I think that Ford is getting ready to move the project to Mexico and share it more with the Hermosillo twins, much like Ford Europe is doing with its smaller BEV and hybrids being built in the Romanian plant. It can be done.

I’m betting that the biggest change will be that just Ford stops talking about BEVs. It’s a good way to patch up things with dealers…….for now.

Ironically, the dry clutch DCT was pushed through because Europe wasn’t going to use it in their vehicles, could you imagine the carnage with European sales if they did…….a bullet dodged.

Absolutely, I was intrigued with this design when it first came out, the epicyclic gear train allows the two electric motors combine with the ICE (running or not) to form variable gearing….. It’s brilliant and probably a lot less mechanical parts than a regular 6-speed auto, I can see how strengthening for the stronger EB engine would fairly straight forward. The irony here is that the original 6F transmission was developed jointly with GM, Im a little surprised that they didn’t get involved with this project as well but then, GM had the Volt and its transmission which was very different in that it actually allowed direct coupling for ICE at higher speeds for greater efficiency…. Mind you, the E-CVT was developed before automatic began mid gear lockup, so part of me wonders if like RWD hybrid transmissions, Ford could use a 6AT but with an electric motor in place of the torque converter….. ^^^^^ It’s probably not worth the effort to change now, the E-CVT is mature tech and works well. Sorry for going off track here, it just such an interesting topic….. an Ecoboost 2.0 hybrid is mind blowing.

Making and selling vehicles is a license to print money, I cannot believe Ford’s continuing propensity to self harm. The Ford brass need to do a cost analysis to realise how much profit they throw away thanks to poor choices and then actually do something about it.

So for those wondering about the history of the current Hybrid Transmission, the original HF35 released in 2012 was replaced in 2022 by the HF45 and a stronger HF55 for the 2.0 EB. heres a great technical video explaining how the gearbox works, rambles a bit but still good all the same…enjoy and this one talks about forst two generations of Aisin hybrid and then the HF35 shows how gearing works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHU5xFOBcsU&list=PLIn3FrDiB1lyI_hRGrKtG4PQf2OpcTqZ4&index=4

Makes sense, the E-CVT is based on the 6F transmission but with many obvious changes, upgrading to take 2.0 EB wouldn’t be a huge stretch. Excited to know if this heralds a new engine combo for eventual wider use….

Probably a lost Aussie Ford guy……

Exactly and I’d say that depending on the trim level, there’s now a lot more room for incentives if sales slow down, I’m just a little surprised that it’s taken Ford so long to work this out. Maybe you’re right about dealers testing the market with those ADMs and Ford sensing that they could charge a lot more….

Wow, gotta say I don’t blame you, there’s a far bit of helmet factor in that price increase. Looks like Ford has its own markup scheme (scam).

Under normal production conditions, Ford has three main F Series plants working at three shifts, they are worked hard and are very efficient but prone to strike action which is why for the longest time, Ford had no Union worries as they were happy to buy the peace. Since the last contract negotiations, Ford has seen the folly of being so reliant on UAW good will an I think that it would serve them better to go back to more Mexican plants out of the UAW’s reach….

The biggest advance in vehicle quality came from better designs in the first place coupled with a standardised build process where each station did a similar or the same operation across Ford’s plants. That improved line training and skills required to do jobs properly. If you give line workers vehicles that are easier to assemble, then of course the quality of the build must go up and everyone is happy, Ford gets a better product they can charge more for and workers get better bonus checks.

Sorry, my fault that you misunderstood my post, because I phrased that poorly. What I meant was that the costs with any future incentives is at least partially baked into that MSRP, not that the MSRP label changes…..although Deanh mentioned previously an example of different sets of window stickers turning up for vehicles already at the dealership The poster I was responding to was talking about Manufacturers setting a non-negotiable price…….as far as I know, manufacturers cannot dictate prices. Again, please forgive my imprecise wording And boy, dealers learned a lot about buyers from that, they could jack up prices, knowing that some buyers would pay that with perhaps the intention of flipping it for even more cash. We’ve just seen that in my location with tons of Ranger Raptor orders at inflated prices, when Ford freed up supplies late last year, many cancellations started pouring in, to the point of those buyers walking away from deposits but others picking up the same vehicles at MSRP. Work that one out….

There’s only two production plants in Mexico, Hermosillo (Maverick and Bronco Sport) and Cuautitlan (Mach E) Last year, Ford ramped up production on Mach E only to find buyers didn’t increase so they’ve been fighting this for nearly a year. Similarly, production at Hermosillo was ramped up later in 2023 which has resulted in increased inventory as well but I think dealers can shift Maverick and Bronco Sport more quickly than Mach E. Hopefully, improving weather into spring improves dealership foot traffic and walk in buyers see what they want.

Exactly, it’s only a matter of time before Ford reacts with changes that commence just beyond the end of this contract. Heck, GM transferred a ton on new production to Mexico a few years back and shut like three or four plants, the UAW struck for a while but we’re always going to fold.

Not meaning to argue your point As I understand it, all Ford vehicles come with MSRP set by Ford but includes incentives, be that 0% financing or varying degrees of cash incentive. In good times, neither of those incentives are applied and in fact we’ve just exited a nasty period of dealer mark ups. Normally, there’s no incentives on a new Model Year while the previous MY is being cleared, I know that like duh but sometimes needs repeating, especially when run out stock is actually extremely low or nonexistent, there’s no need for Ford to push any incentives…. Where dealers get stuck with stock that just won’t sell, Ford will eventually offer dealers a final payment, a specific incentive amount that normally guarantees quick sale. So that lower non-negotiable price you mentioned has a whole bunch of caveats attached and is exactly why dealers don’t normally make much on new vehicle sales save for ADMs. It would help at ton if Ford actually did what you advise and set a “fixed lower non-negotiable price” guaranteeing dealers a better margin on sales but unfortunately Ford doesn’t do that…

While F Series remains well below 200,000 (168k?), I think Ford will be OK because those end of year model $8,000 discounts will remain well contained. In fact, any time incentives remain subdued, Ford’s profits should be consistent. Explorer is a concern with +30,000 inventory but that could also be an advantage if sales increase going into spring and summer. Readily available stock has been something that galls dealerships, now they have some stock to push….

And this is why Ford can’t afford to get rid of dealerships, they need someone in between to act as a filter because their tracking and customer responses are well, sub par to be kind…

What is absolutely hilarious is that Ford markets telematics and tracking systems to its commercial customers while it does a terrible job of organising and tracking orders and supply of its own vehicles. Maybe Ford should get its own house in order first before telling others how to run their business?

So where from here. I remember back when Mulally brought manufacturing jobs back to the US and in particular, Michigan. While Ford appeared to do that for the best reasons, it also wanted the UAW to take the burden of pension liabilities. So in some ways, everyone got something from that deal. Fast forward to 2023 and the UAW unrest where many of the rank and file were expecting a catch up deal to make up for the lean years and what Fain delivered was exactly that…..but at a heck of a cost. Now, Ford is actively looking to move future projects away from the US. Everything hit Ford at once, an aggressive UAW contract with higher ongoing costs right when there is a downturn in vehicle sales but worse, Ford’s big hope of that BEV sales ramp up is not happening. So how pissed off are the Ford brass, how far would they go with production changes to risk off the next UAW contract, how many plants would they be looking to pull back production and move to Mexico? There are are loads of questions in there and perhaps looking at what’s planned to happen in this contract will show us where Ford can change things beyond the end of this term?

All bets are off, let the UAW stew on what plants they think will close after this contract ends….

This could be just my impression but a shorter hood on a compact pickup like Maverick would make it look more like it’s progenitor vehicle, the Transit Connect. After all, the reason the hood was lengthened was to make it resemble a Ranger or even an F150. Do buyers now want a stumpy nose? Im asking because I don’t know if styling preferences have changed and I’m stuck in the past with my opinions.

The skunkworks is based in Irvine and headed by Former Tesla executive Alan Clarke. That should give certain people here a hard on at the mention of an ex-Tesla chief heading up the project…. https://fordauthority.com/2024/02/low-cost-ford-ev-skunkworks-project-led-by-former-tesla-exec/ Now if this is a low cost project, the odds are good that they are developing a skateboard BEV lower to be added to existing Ford bodies. Currently, the two projects vehicles are a Utility (Bronco Sport) and a Pickup (Maverick?) that are going into Louisville after Escape and Corsair end.