Footballfan

Was it Mulally or Hackett?

It seems gm and Ford get things wrong more than others. I do not see them as adapting with this move- it is simply kicking the can down the road while abandoning yet more market segments and ceding yet more market share.

Incompetence, incompetence, incompetence. Ford and gm got it so wrong. Why are we to believe them about 2027?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-patents-potential-ice-saving-technology/ar-BB1j2nYo?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ENTPSP&cvid=1e1aedb1cb27487a8befde80194c9420&ei=7

I think Ford and GM are pooping bricks right now. Gm committed three of their plants to EVs and Ford two. I'm sure they are looking to supplement ICE and hybrid production in at least a few of these plants

I think Ford regrets the whole BOC thing. For the time being, these vehicles could have been accommodated in a present plant.

This plant is going to be Ford's Saturn. Saturn was supposed to build 500000 vehicles a year but got scaled back. Unless hybrids and ICE vehicles are in the mix for this BOC, this plant will probably never break 125-150k units a year.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/climate/biden-epa-auto-emissions.html

The problem is the entity that allows them to come back in the first place.b

Of course not, I know how the system works. But if they wanted to get rid of the loafers bad enough they would find a way. Weak management allows these people to come back time and time again. They need to draw a line.

No. Those who are not doing their jobs or comes to work need to be disciplined, however that is management's job. People only get away with what they are allowed to.

No. One of the principles of TQM and Demmings is that management is ultimately responsible for quality. If it goes out the door the onus is on management to fix it

I would venture to say there is a bit of difference in the work ethic from your grandfather's time 55 years ago compared to today.

Many have no idea of the process. They are brilliant when it comes to theory and book smarts, but some lack common sense and the humility to learn. When mistakes are made on the floor it is the operators and management to fix their mistakes.

I have no problem with the pay provided the company is successful. However, when companies are run into the ground and poor decisions after poor decisions are made, the pay is not warranted. In Ford's case, the company's quality and launch issues are well documented and we have a CEO ripping the hourly employees in the media which is never a good thing to do. If Farley did not like the contract he should not have signed off on it. Incidentally, I would not switch jobs with the CEO based on pay. I worked hard and am financially comfortable. I do know if I messed up as some of the CEOs have, I would have been out of a job years ago.

Let's hope it does not come to that. You're right, a lot of people blindly follow their union "leadership"

I agree, and as I posted I don't like Fain's tactics. However, a lot of the people I talk too thought the UAW was too weak- not necessarily my opinion. CEOs take some of the blame too- a lot of bad decisions have been made at Ford (and GM and Chrysler for that matter) since the start of this century.

That may be true, but most engineers and designers never spent a day on the line- they were hired right out of college.

Please read my last sentence of my post

Not saying that, but if you are paying dues to a union you expect the best most lucrative contract. I'm not a fan of Fain but the UAW now elected is presidents not appoint them. If Fain did not come up with a bold contract the membership would vote him out the next election.

If you look at the highest inflation in 50 years we have seen this decade, that 20 percent does not seem so large.

If you want to talk greed, let's start at the CEO level. The engineer or designer works in a nice air conditioned office, sits in a comfy chair all day, and can walk out of the office at the end of a workday without any aches or pains. I have the highest respect for those folks on the line who come in every day and do their jobs.

I am not a fan of Fain, but moving jobs to Mexico would create a political backlash and create more bad news for Ford. The average price of a new vehicle rose by $7,000 since 2020 or 15%. This new contract supposedly adds about 1.9% to the $48227 average price of a new car. What about the other 13.1 percent? Inflation has been a cancer for the economy and wages have been forced up across the employment spectrum. Even if Ford got a concessionary contract or moved all the work to Mexico, would Ford cut the prices of vehicles? The problems of the Big Three run deeper than the UAW. Bad management and excessive regulation play a major role. Ford has been steadily cutting jobs since the turn of the century and employ 40 percent less UAW members during that time (same with GM and Stellantis/Chrysler/FCA/DCX). This was despite the fact these companies had favorable contracts. A lot of the UAW membership felt that the union gave too much to Ford while plants were being closed- even when n profitable years-in the US and a lot of jobs being moved to Mexico and they were pissed. Unfortunately I think that Fain went overboard, but keep in mind the UAW president is now elected by the membership -not appointed- so he has to be more aggressive with the companies.

That's true for some of the vehicles. The Taurus and perhaps the Evos would fit, but anything else would require a new or heavily modified paint shop.

The implication from the contract was that it was an all-new product. An AWD or hybrid Mustang would be considered, I feel, an AWD extension of the Mustang line. Considering the plant is being run at about one-third capacity, I was guessing it would be a Ford product brought here from another part of the world. Some ideas: Evos Taurus sedan Edge Nautilus I think the question is how much is Ford willing to spend at Flat Rock. Over the past several years the had two multi-billion dollar investments- and a new paint shop- cancelled by Hackett the Hatchet