mrballsonya

Thats great news. Hopefully the brainwashed Toyota minions will soon start to realize that their beloved cars aren't swiss made from, Titanium and Diamonds. Much like Wal Mart, I hate Toyota and everything they stand for. F*ck Toyota

:beerchug: Don't expect an intelligent response from these guys. I'm fairly sure, they can't respond without using the words "pussy" or "Lefty". Their M.O. is attacking the man, and not the issues. Attacking the man and not the issue is a basic defensive device that most of us learned in grade school, it's also something most adults grow out of as they mature and learn to handle themselves in a debate. Unfortunately some people on this board have nothing better to do than watch Fox News all day and visit Bush fan boy sites at night. I'm sure at some point these individuals were attune to the realities of the world, but now they're just mindless, misinformed dinosaurs. Much like Bush, they really need to pick up a newspaper. I find it utterly hilarious and frightening at the same time that because of the moronic decisions of Bush and Friends, Hillary Clinton is now the front runner in the 08' presidential race. I can't stand Hillary, but I really don't care because even my 4 year old could've made better decisions than GW. Congratulations to "ANYONE" in 08', after 8 years of Bush "insert name here" would be an improvement.

Yeah I kick myself every time I see how high the price of gold has become. I hate to even think about all the money I've I dumped into Ford stock in the last 8 years. To think all I had to do was just buy Gold. Oh well.... I guess I'll have the last laugh when Ford hits $50 a share :happy feet: .

Off original topic, but pertaining to what this thread has become. Here's an interesting website that determines which presidential candidate most closely lines up with your own views on key issues. After asking a series of 11 questions on hot political topics, the survey numerically rates the candidates from 0 being the least comparable up to 50 being the most. http://www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?L=259460 Oddly enough it picked Joe Biden for me with, 37 points. Followed closely by John Edwards, 34 points and Bill Richardson 32 points. Joe Biden and Bill Richardson, weren't even on my radar before I took this quiz. Two tied for the lowest... Tom Tancredo and Ron Paul..both with 6 points. I was also a little surprised to see that John McCain only got 12 points, as I've always been a fan. But evidently McCain and I are worlds apart in some of our political views. Obviously this quiz is far from scientific but could be eye opening in some cases.

A case can definitely be made for Carter. Give me BJ Clinton over Dumb ass Bush, any day of the week. You're joking right? I think if FDR was still alive he'd take great issue with your statement. You do remember Dec. 7th 1941 don't you? You can't compare an attack by a group of cowards, to an attack by a world super power. But unlike Bush, at least FDR declared War on the right country. I think every president in history has had to deal with threats and adverse situations. 9/11 was a heinous event no doubt about it, but please don't place Bush on a pedestal just for starting a fallacious war. True, and there's also another hidden tax you forgot....the worthless U.S. dollar. The low U.S. dollar is good for our Manufacturers (the ones that haven't yet defected the U.S.)... but bad for the U.S. citizen. The horrendous trade deficit, and rampant spending of the Bush administration have all contributed to the current low value of the U.S. dollar. The trade deficit could've been lessened with some enforcement of trade agreements and of course Bush's Tax cuts and the price of the War certainly haven't helped. When you owe boatloads of money to someone (China and Japan), suddenly you have to start treading very lightly when it comes to foreign policies involving said countries. By devaluing the dollar, essentially the International financial markets have shown us how much they think an American I.O.U. is worth. Evidently, they don't think very highly of us. Can we pay off the loan sharks....... or are we destined to become China's BITCH?

Agree 100%. Heres a link to a small graph that compares the annual cost of the Iraq war to a few other annual costs. http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/01/...DT_GRAPHIC.html Here's the article from earlier this year that accompanied the graph. It's a pretty interesting read. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/business...08c&ei=5090

Thanks for the recommendation, but I'm fine.

:hysterical: Nice try.... I don't recall ever reading a post that contained "Dribble" aka. saliva. Once again attacking me and not the issues. If by reading my responses you think I'm intellectually superior... so be it. I could care less what you think of me. What I do care about is the terrible situation that the Bush administration has put our country in. I'm just baffled that any sane person would still support such a Moron. I've never visited that website. But you seem to be very familiar with it. This response just proves that what the Terrorists did on 9/11, was far more successful than they ever could've imagined. We now have less freedom, Less money, Less Power and we have people like you scared shitless that unless we lob bombs at every Islamic country..... The Terrorists will "WIN". I think they already have.

Our government stopped having the average Americans best interests in mind, ages ago. They no longer work for us, they work for whom ever writes them the biggest check. I can't stand Hillary Clinton, every time I hear her speak... it makes my skin crawl. I can't believe she's become the front runner for the Democratic nomination. As much as I hate Bush and all his supporters, I find it very ironic that because of Bush's inept presidency we can now look forward to another 4 years governed by a very unqualified (this time Democratic) President. But hey, when you're the chief representative of a political party that has made such huge miss steps (BUSH and Republicans)... I guess I don't blame the American people for wanting to go in a different direction. Unfortunately for us this different direction happens to be Hillary. On a Side note.... Pelosi needs to be put out of her misery, plain and simple. I hope a house falls on the the wicked Bitch of the West.

First of all, you do know it's drivel right, not dribble. Dribble is what you do in your shorts when you hear the dulcet tones of George W. Bush's voice. Oh, sorry for the personal attack, but given your perpetual use of Ad Hominem I figured I'd give it a go too. You can call it a typical left response all you want; call me a pussy. Good for you. But your continued insistence that opposition to this ridiculous boondoggle of a war is somehow analogous to not supporting the troops is just a typical response from a blind idealist following a naked emperor. But I'll give you a decent chance here. You tell me, what good has this war done for anyone? Right now we have young men and women dying merely to justify the deaths of young men and women who already died in this war. The only constant in this war has been the rampant incompetence and continuous lies coming from our leaders. They sent our troops in undermanned, under-armored, and with no real plan. Yet I'm the coward for calling them on it. Knowing your enemy and its motives is one of the most fundamental aspects of war. People like you think that understanding the enemy is for pussies, and blindly firing in the dark is the only way to prove you're a man. The U.S. was afraid of Chinese Communism spreading to Vietnam, so we invaded. We didn't realize that the Vietnamese hated the Chinese. We were attacked by a nebulous bunch of terrorists, most of whom trained in Pakistan or Afghanistan and hailed from Saudi Arabia. If you remember, most of the world supported us when we went into Afghanistan. But then we attacked Iraq for no justifiable reason. Unfortunately people like you believed it, when the President said that "they hate us for our freedom". That's like saying the Japanese don't buy American cars because we make them too well. Suddenly, the Iraqi people were branded terrorists because they didn't like it when we blew the fuck out of their homes. But, you know, I guess they deserved it for letting us be completely wrong about our reasons for invasion. It's a good thing we placed our soldiers in such a great situation. Our soldiers have fought valiantly in a completely untenable situation. If you want to call fewer people dying from one specific method of attack progress, go right ahead. I'm sure the parents of those who DID die will also find comfort in that. I guess I just hate America so much, that I just want all of our soldiers to come home and share in my loathing. November 11th, 2008 - Mission Accomplished

Who's attitude are you referring to? As Arnold said..... "I'll be Back" albeit in 16 hours. Peace bitches.

WTF? :wacko: Thank God we decided to occupy Iraq, I can't tell you how many times I had nightmares of Iraq's navy storming our shores. :rolleyes:

Win what? What is there to Win? If the War was about 9/11, than why did we invade Iraq instead of Saudi Arabia? If the war was about WMD's, and none were ever found... then why are we still over there? If the war was to liberate Iraq from Saddam Hussein, then we already "won" and our troops should've been home years ago. The only thing our troops are fighting now is something that has no face and no home. We will never be able to win a war against terrorism using force. Blowing up terrorists, sounds great on paper... but all it does is create a new Martyr and aid in the recruitment of future terrorists. The only way to defeat terrorism is to understand why they hate us and try to adjust foreign policy and actions accordingly. I personally believe that If this war was truly about terrorism, we would've had much better luck trying to infiltrate terrorist cells using highly trained agents and covert ops rather than occupying a whole Arabic country. The troops being killed now are almost exclusively being killed because of the occupation of a foreign country . If we happened to be invaded by Canada and Mexico Tomorrow... under the guise of "freeing us from the evil George Bush Regime", don't you think we'd by putting together some I.E.D.'s in our garage? Not everyone in Iraq hated Saddam, just like in the U.S. not everyone hates G.W. (I don't know why). Our troops are dying because we occupied a heavily Islamic country and now we're trying to force Democracy down the throats of a country that resides in a region that doesn't want it. To them we are the Terrorists i.e. (someone that is trying to change everything they believe in). What makes us right? Why are we trying to change a culture that has existed for 1000's of years? You're kidding me right? A political football... that sounds like a statement pulled verbatim from a FOX NEWS broadcast, Yeah whatever. When I say "I support our troops" I mean.... now that our troops are put in this precarious position, I believe that we should try to get them out of Iraq as soon as possible. But since thats not happening... they should be equipped with the latest and best defensive devices, the best living conditions, the best weapons and the best care and benefits when they return home safely or wounded. The last time I checked, I had a lot more "freedom" before the patriot act was enacted. Please name one way that your insinuated "sacrifices" a.k.a. the occupation of Iraq have benefited the American people? You're right I don't sleep well at night, but it's not because of the reasons you state. I don't sleep well because, I believe the moronic decisions made by Bush and his advisor's in their 7 years of office have affected the quality of my life and will continue to adversely affect the quality of life of my children for years to come. I didn't just arbitrarily decide to hate our president. He made it easy to do with his inept leadership, omnipotent attitude, and terrible decision making.

Jesus Dark..... No one's going to read all that sh*t. I'm sure you proved your point, but WTF?

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/gener...ticleid=1043281 Bush's First term tax cuts to the rich in the midst of a convoluted war, seem to really have been a great Idea. One more notch in the belt of THE worst president the U.S. has ever seen.

Wixom is not mentioned in white page document 163c, do you think this is just an over site? Also 163c clearly is labeled "opportunities for NON-skilled employees", is there a separate Skilled trades sheet that I'm missing? I also see that on page 86A, section F it states that ".....Notwithstanding the above provisions, a protected status employee whose work facility is closed or idled, at present or in the future, will NOT report to work and will receive the 85% pay rate". It sounds like already closed plant employees won't have a choice of showing up for the extra 15%.

Nice!! Seems like a pretty good deal for a decent looking, seemingly performance oriented vehicle. I really think the G8 will be a strong seller GM. Hopefully Ford will take notice and produce something equivalent.

I think some of you guys are living in an alternate reality. Would you guys rather have taken a $12 an hour pay cut to ensure that we as well as the new hires would all make $18 an hour? I'm sure Ford would've loved that deal. You guys are crazy to think that Union had any chance of retaining the majority of our current wage and benefits package and also guaranteeing future plant and product investment in the US as well as maintaining a Gen program AND.... ensuring all future employees would hire in under the current unfeasible cost structure. Ford stated that it would not agree to a contract that retained the current unsustainable cost structure. Something had to give, and in this case it was future workers wages and benefits. Like I said before I'm not happy about this, but I just don't see any other way around it. As others on this board have stated, no one will be forcing these workers to take these $14 an hour Jobs.... I know I wouldn't. Subsequently if we had been forced into huge wage concessions, It wouldn't be worth it to stay. I think many of us on this board know that working in a factory 40 hours a week is not worth $600. Many of us have stayed in these jobs, not because we love the work... but for the good pay and benefits. Take away the perks, and I think you'd be surprised at how many good, hard working people would leave the company. Face it guys, unless things change drastically over the next ten years.... the U.S. factory worker has virtually no future. The GOOD OLE' DAYS are long gone, you can thank globalization and our "free trade loving" government for that.

It's nice to hear from one of the 25 people that still support this debacle of a war. I support our troops 100%, it's the people that sent them to Iraq that I despise. Our troops should be home with their families, not fighting a war that cannot be won. The only winners in this conflict, will be Military contractors and oil company executives and investors.

Yeah!!!! Great news... now only 18 families get to mourn the loss of one of their kids. "The oil will pay for the war" And we will pay $3.50 a Gal for that refined oil. Wow what a terrific war, we've alienated more countries, we've created more future terrorists, our kids are dying and we're paying double what we did for gas at the wars inception. This has been such a benchmark for success.. that I just can't wait to see what dastardly deeds Iran will do to justify an occupation of their country.

When you have virtually no leverage in a negotiation, something has to give. In the case of this contract it maintained the greater good for all current Ford employees. I'm not happy about the two tier Bull Shit, but what else can we do about it? Should we strike because everyone that is used to making a living wage...continues to make a living wage? I've got financial obligations to meet that are based on $30 an hour, a new hire starting at $14 an hour would adjust his lifestyle accordingly. For Christ sake we are competing against Mexicans making $3 an hour and Chinese making $1 an hour. I'm just thankful that the Union was able to get some future product guarantees and not make any wage concessions. If you want to call out the true sell outs..... just look to our government (past and current).

I agree. Things are bad out there in the job market for tradesman, but not that bad. This falls under the age old adage...."you get what you pay for". If Ford wants to hire $14 an hour tradesmen, so be it. But I hope they don't expect any type of craftsmanship from someone making slightly more than a cashier at Costco.

I've only read little pieces and highlights from the proposed contract, But I have to say given the financial state of Ford and the current climate of declining U.S. manufacturing wages.... I think the Bargaining team did a hell of a job. I was expecting wage concessions, the elimination or extreme reform of the GEN bank, Increased health care costs and I really figured Ford would try and push for the Two trade maintenance model (Mechanical & Electrical). Well I'm glad to say I was dead wrong on the wage concessions and Two trade maintenance model, And the Gen bank reform is much better than I expected. The increased health care costs are about what I expected. As a Ford tradesman, I'm very pleased with this contract..... It's much better than what I had envisioned.

I agree. I hired in as a tradesman, and unless the (Gen Bank trades to production) scenario happens... I have no recall rights to take a production job.

Thanks for the link Furious. I've gotta say, on the surface the agreement looks pretty good to me.