mrballsonya

I really have no faith in the ability of the UAW to manage such a huge liability/Fund. I think ahead... about 5 years and have terrible images in my head, of unqualified, middle school educated, UAW Reps being led out of the UAW international in handcuffs. This will be like giving out blank checks to crackheads. Unless this money is very closely watched and scrutinized, it will be skimmed, pilfered and "invested poorly". In 4 years, we'll all see a bulletin stating that " Due to the increasing high cost of health care, and underperfoming investments, the VEBA will have to be supplemented to the tune of $2000 per employee". We've all seen the UAW membership dwindle to less than 40% of what it once was, and yet our beloved international has remained as bloated as it ever was. This really sounds like an efficient, well run organization. Definitely an organization that I'd like to infuse a Multi billion dollar investment in. The corruption, kickbacks, payoffs and favoritism that this massive amount of money will create are truly scary. If you guys think that all the shady shit that happens at a local level, amazingly stops as soon as the same individuals go "down town".....I've got a nice bridge to sell you in Brooklyn, N.Y. . I also have serious questions about the, "what if" scenario of the enactment of a U.S. national health care system. I doubt this will ever happen, but if it does... what happens to this money? I highly doubt the UAW would refund the money to its members, or even increase the retirement benefits. This would be a pure windfall for the UAW. I foresee a MASSIVE expansion of International, doubling the size.....all in the name of "Increasing new membership campaigns" i.e.....an excuse to pay every brother, cousin, nephew, and friend $80,000 a year to do nothing. As you can tell, I'm a very skeptical person. I absolutely believe in the fundamental beliefs of a union, without collective bargaining I don't think we'd have a middle class in the U.S. Unfortunately I think the modern UAW has become a nepotistic, self serving, uncompetitive joke. The UAW no longer serves its average member, it serves itself and the lazy P.O.S worker. Make sure you get the drunk, crackhead his job back, so you can saddle his hardworking coworkers with twice the work. If you mess up once.... thats O.K., if you mess up again...well, this is your last chance.....the third time, you're GONE. Lets cut the fat, and prove that good, hardworking UAW members cannot be equaled in their work ethic, and efficiency. Lets remain competitive, and keep our good paying jobs here in the U.S. . It'll be very hard to compete with $2 per hour Chinese workers, when we've got $30 an hour UAW workers stating......"that's not my job, all I can do is sit here and read my paper". IMO the modern UAW needs a serious protocol overhaul, and a massive leadership cleansing.

Len_A, I know you and me have differed in our opinions in the past....but that's irrelevant. I take no pleasure in your pain. I'm very sorry to hear about your job, and I wish you the best of luck. I hope you'll be able to find something equivalent or better soon. Good luck Brotha', Remember we're all in this together. As the good paying blue collar jobs leave the country, so do the sales reps, suppliers, supplier reps, retailers, bankers, loan officers, and investment brokers. I'm still amazed that the sub prime lending industry was "shocked" to find out that people with poor credit, aren't real reliable in paying their bills. Obviously, the loss of thousands of unskilled, high paying factory jobs didn't help this equation. But all this upheaval just proves the point, that once you stop paying the worker a decent wage... an astounding thing happens......They stop buying stuff. Wow what a concept... no extra money....no shopping. Amazing. Those guys on Wall Street are geniuses. In all sincerity... I wish the best to you and your family.

My thoughts on a UAW VEBA. I really have no faith in the ability of the UAW to manage such a huge liability/Fund. I think ahead... about 5 years and have terrible images in my head, of unqualified, middle school educated, UAW Reps being led out of the UAW international in handcuffs. This will be like giving out blank checks to crackheads. Unless this money is very closely watched and scrutinized, it will be skimmed, pilfered and "invested poorly". In 4 years, we'll all see a bulletin stating that " Due to the increasing high cost of health care, and underperfoming investments, the VEBA will have to be supplemented to the tune of $2000 per employee". We've all seen the UAW membership dwindle to less than 40% of what it once was, and yet our beloved international has remained as bloated as it ever was. This really sounds like an efficient, well run organization. Definitely an organization that I'd like to infuse a Multi billion dollar investment in. The corruption, kickbacks, payoffs and favoritism that this massive amount of money will create are truly scary. If you guys think that all the shady shit that happens at a local level, amazingly stops as soon as the same individuals go "down town".....I've got a nice bridge to sell you in Brooklyn, N.Y. . I also have serious questions about the, "what if" scenario of the enactment of a U.S. national health care system. I doubt this will ever happen, but if it does... what happens to this money? I highly doubt the UAW would refund the money to its members, or even increase the retirement benefits. This would be a pure windfall for the UAW. I foresee a MASSIVE expansion of International, doubling the size.....all in the name of "Increasing new membership campaigns" i.e.....an excuse to pay every brother, cousin, nephew, and friend $80,000 a year to do nothing. As you can tell, I'm a very skeptical person. I absolutely believe in the fundamental beliefs of a union, without collective bargaining I don't think we'd have a middle class in the U.S. Unfortunately I think the modern UAW has become a nepotistic, self serving, uncompetitive joke. The UAW no longer serves its average member, it serves itself and the lazy P.O.S worker. Make sure you get the drunk, crackhead his job back, so you can saddle his hardworking coworkers with twice the work. If you mess up once.... thats O.K., if you mess up again...well, this is your last chance.....the third time, you're GONE. Lets cut the fat, and prove that good, hardworking UAW members cannot be equaled in their work ethic, and efficiency. Lets remain competitive, and keep our good paying jobs here in the U.S. . It'll be very hard to compete with $2 per hour Chinese workers, when we've got $30 an hour UAW workers stating......"that's not my job, all I can do is sit here and read my paper". IMO the modern UAW needs a serious protocol overhaul, and a massive leadership cleansing.

Yes. When compared to the actual physical "WORK' that an assembler performs every day. Cops, teachers, nurses and fireman are all honorable professions, but these jobs don't compare physically do the average factory worker. Most police drive around all day, issuing speeding citations and "keeping everyone safe". Most Fireman get paid to do nothing other than be "ON Call" for an emergency. Yeah the Fireman wash the trucks, do training exercises, and make dinner... but the actual work they do in average 40 hour work week pales in comparison to an average factory worker. I'm not trying to discount the heroism of what they do, as I'd give anything to someone that saved one of my kids. But as far as pay for actual time worked, there is no comparison. I'd be wiling to bet that any Police officer or Fireman would probably quit a manufacturing job within the first week. The monotony and constant work would send them fleeing for the doors. There is no humiliation like being told when you can and can't go to the bathroom. Nurses do have to perform some pretty nasty functions to warrant their pay, but most of their time is still spent in a chair updating charts, and making notes for the doctors. Teachers are important, they guide, teach and inspire our offspring. Unfortunately according to International statistics, either U.S. teachers aren't doing a very good job or the U.S. just has Dumb kids. So where does this argument go from here...? Yes police and Firemen are put in some very precarious situations, but it's probably less than 1% of the time. I think you'll find that nationally, industrial death and injury is at least on par if not worse than the injury and mortality rate of the "protection trades". You don't have to be a genius to be a nurse, you just have to be able to read, write, take blood, insert catheters, empty bed pans, and take notes... "I know I'm oversimplifying the Job, but it's not rocket science". And then we have Teachers. My mom is a High School English teacher and she goes over and beyond whats expected. She comes up with different curriculum's every year, she stays after school way longer than what is required. She makes herself available to any student at any hour of the day, and she deals with belligerent parents who can't understand why the kid that they never see or talk to is failing. But......She doesn't do any physical work, other than haul stacks of tests and books into the classroom. She also gets the summer months off, with pay. In all honesty, I wouldn't want to put up with the crap that she does for her salary...but it sure would be nice to have the whole summer off. Just as a Sub note...... I'd like to add that when compared to your average landscape laborer, Manufacturing workers are way overpaid. When I drive through my neighborhood, I always see guys busting their asses for probably $10 an hour. I'm thankful for everyday that I don't have to subside doing that for a living.

Ah yes the venerable CHIX on DIX, a much better choice for the working man. What a great name for a titty bar. The last time I drove down Dix it was like driving on the moon, I pray for my rims and tires every time I drive down that abortion of a road.

YOWSER Derek! Evidently working in Dearborn has made you a little salty. Maybe its got something to do with that "grass" growing on the roof. or the vines creeping up the side of the building. I think maybe you need to go unwind at B.T.'s or Pantheon after work. Take a lap dance or two, relieve some tension if you know what I mean. Life is too short to worry about who's telling you to do what in some crap ass forum. Life is great, with some hot ass in your face!

Fantastic!!! Unfortunately Jesus died later that day, after brushing his teeth with Chinese made Glycol laced toothpaste. YOU BASTARDS!!! You KILLED Kenny.....er... I mean JESUS.

WOW! this thread turned into a religious discussion.....SWEET! :happy feet: :happy feet:. Count me in, as I'm a godless heathen. All right who's going to be the first Religified(Sic) individual to SAVE me. The first Saver, gets a set of Ginsu 3000 knives and a free potato slicer.... but wait.... if you act to save me now, I'm authorized by Chef Tony himself to also include an extra special BONUS prize........ a gold electroplated ROLLING RULER studded with 100's of carats of cubic zirconia. This is a deal you guys don't want to pass up....ACT NOW.....Supplies are limited.

I still don't agree with the removal of the "school of free thought" portion on this forum, I don't think this move stopped any of the off topic discussion...... it just forced people to scatter their various posts in other non-applicable forums. Most other major online forums offer off topic discussions, and the omission of an Off Topic header really lends credence to the notion that this is a 3rd tier Forum. I'm a firm believer in the statement.... A place for everything, and everything in its place. The Blue oval forums apparently believes that everything is Black or White, so there is no need for a Grey area. I understand this is a forum dedicated to FORD motor company, but there are plenty of off topic discussions that indirectly or directly affect Ford. I really think that an off topic header NEEDS to be reinstated.

:slug: So sorry to hear about your mandatory 10 and 11 hour shifts :slap: . I think there are lot of people right now that used to work at Wixom Assembly that would love to be in your shoes. Be happy that you're working, things could be a lot worse. I apologize in advance for being such a DICK, but its tough to hear people complaining about working overtime when so many guys down here in Michigan just wish they had a job. In all sincerity, I do hope for all your sakes that they redesign the CV and Town Car soon. Otherwise you'll probably be in the same shoes as me in 2 years. Make the money while you can, and be grateful that you have a Job.

They must work for FORD. :shades: I don't think I've ever seen someone of Asian descent drive a Domestic. Trying to not be racist here, Asians/ Japanese seem to be much more loyal to the Imports. You guys all know how shitty the cars that we build are.

This posts reeks of mind altering substances :party: .

There is only one certainty, it's going to be a rough ride for us in the Mechanical trades. We all saw how automation devastated production workers in the 80's and 90's, and now the mechanical trades are dealing with the same repercussions. Automation has been a boon to the "sparkys" but has really helped no one else. If your not an Electrician...... get ready to hurry up and wait, the jobs will be few and far between. Just my $.02

This is interesting. Because this isn't how it worked at Wixom a couple months back. But hey, if this is the right way I'm fine with it.

Thanks Raw I'll look into that. As far as not liking what I read, believe me I'll be happy with any definitive answer.

This should be true, but in the case of Utica Millwrights getting the R&E jobs..... it appears their H.R. department let every millwright at the plant (working or in GEN) bid on these positions. From what we've been told at Wixom and from past practice, this is contractually wrong. For plants that have a Gen bank and are still running, GEN bankers are supposed to be the only ones able to bid on said openings.... At least this is what we've been told. At this point, the Union and Company HAVE to come up with a definitive protocol regarding this situation. There can be no ....we'll do it this way and then next time we'll do it that way. It's either BLACK or WHITE, RIGHT or WRONG. Either everyone can bid on the openings or only GEN bankers can bid. I just want a definitive answer from someone.

I hate to take this very entertaining discussion away from all the skank, Ho, loser talk....... But I'm going to. From the pictures I've seen of the FLEX, I think it sucks. To me it looks like Ford gave a clean sheet design assignment to the second grade class at a local elementary school. The pictures I've seen have reminded me of a very disproportionate, stretched copy of the original Scion Xb. Now granted I've never been a fan of the Scion box, but to my eye the scion at least looks somewhat cohesive. I obviously will reserve final judgment until I physically see one, but just from the pictures..... I think it's a stylistic DUD. I really hope I'm DEAD wrong in my initial opinions of the FLEX, I hope they won't be able to make enough of them. But I just have a bad feeling about this one. On a more positive note, I love the concept Pics of the new Lincoln MKS and Jag XF (who knows if Jag will still be under the Ford Umbrella by then, but its a huge improvement over the s type). And I especially love the talk of a twin turbo 3.5 being available in the new Lincoln. Ford hasn't rolled over and diedjust yet, the Lincoln MKS and Jag XF are proof of that. We still have some good designers and concepts. Lucky for all us, the Flex will not make or break FoMoCo like a botched F150 redesign would. If the Flex is successful, thats great but if it's not we'll live to fight another day.

Agree 100%....... keep The INFO flowing everybody.

AND THE PLOT THICKENS......... The last thing I remember hearing was that people working weren't eligible to sign up for job postings at other plants. Now If Utica is in GEN protected status, then I could see it happening...... But if they're not then Why the hell were they eligible for these Jobs. As Mulewright stated above....Just 2-3 months ago, before Wixom was in GEN protected status; A welder bid for R&E was posted and filled by the top seniority welder in our GEN bank. The Welders that where working the floor at the time went nuts, they all knew that Wixom was due to shut in a couple of weeks and that this individual with less seniority than them was going to have a Job and they weren't. BUT THIS IS THE WAY THE BID HIERARCHY WORKS> GEN workers take bid preference over those that are working. At least this is how it worked 2 months ago, so unless the Union and Company have made some changes recently, I don't see how UTICA guys that were working... were even able to sign up for those R&E jobs. This individual policing is ridiculous. It's terrible that we have to take it upon ourselves to communicate with fellow workers from other plants, in order to find out about all these contractual miss steps. Why is it that we have high ranking Union officials and well payed Labor relations representatives that for some reason can't follow a fairly simple Bid process that they co-opted? It's very frustrating to say the least, especially when peoples livelihoods are at stake.

Thanks Waldo, I just got it.

Believe it or not, I had nothing to do with this. I was waiting for a Name and Seniority date before I approached our Rep. Since I never got a concrete name and date, I never approached our Skilled trades chairman. If something happened it was due to online lurkers who were reading our dialog. As far as the other Millwright bid takers, 6 were from UTICA, 1 was from chesterfield, 1 was from ?QMP GEN?, and 7 were from Wixom. The reason for 15 people on a 14 bid list supposedly lies in the fact that one of our Millwrights worked for a couple years as a safety trainer and was asked to perform these duties for R&E employees. So he really isn't going to R&E to take one of the Millwright slots, but going as a SAFETY GURU! Thanks for creating an extra opening Bob! Hopefully all parties in this SAGA will end up happy, and all will be well in the World.

This really is an unfortunate situation, It's ashame that someone is being FORCED to this job when you had at least 8-10 millwrights at Wixom with more seniority that would've loved to have it. This is obviously not a knock on your friend, we all have our different reasons for not wanting to go to different plants but this just isn't right....someone else should have that job. Hey Waldo, I hope I'm not stepping out of bounds here... but do you think you could PM me his first and Last name and trade seniority date? I totally understand if you don't want to for privacy reasons, but When I mention this to our skilled trades rep today... it sure would go a lot farther than "some Guy on Blue Oval said that some other guy got a bid out of place". We really need to figure out what exactly happened with this situation. It is possible that we had no Millwrights in Gen at the time, after the first round of buyouts our Gen Millwrights were all sent back to the floor. So the Brownstown bid probably did miss us. I really didn't pay attention to where the other R&E winners came from, I mainly was looking at the trade seniority dates. I'll check the posting today and get back to you on that. Thanks Again Waldo.

The first posting we got for any MW jobs was last Monday the 16th. The posting was for 14 openings at R&E, as far as I know at least 16 of our 23 MW's signed up for these jobs with seniority dates ranging from 1984 to 2002. This is the first and only time in the last year that anyone at our plant has heard about MW openings. Like I said before I believe 7 of our Millwrights got the bids with the cutoff seniority being 94. So if someone with 2000 seniority got one of those jobs, then either there is some real funny stuff going on.... or our labor relations and union officials dropped the ball. Wixom still has 4 millwrights working on the ongoing decommission of the plant, but according to our skilled trade rep EVERYONE at Wixom including those still working.... are in GEN protected status. This is supported by the fact that all 4 of the Millwrights that were working took the R&E bids, If they weren't in Gen status then they wouldn't have been eligible for those Jobs. I am one of the 16 Millwrights left. Thanks again for all the info Waldo.

Wow 2000 seniority Huh. That's very interesting, as we had about 10 guys with more trade seniority than that not get the bid. This doesn't make any sense, because as far as I know all of Wixom has been in GEN status for almost a month now. And as you said, before that we were in Flowback status along with the SRP guys.... so how did someone with 2000 seniority get FORCED to go to a job when there were at least 20 takers with more seniority at Wixom? It sounds like some goofy stuff is going on. Thanks a lot for the info Waldo. Hey... how did you guys find out about 38 Millwrights in the system? Did that include Wixom? We've been trying to get that info from our local for months now, You'd think they were guarding National Defense plans as hard as it is to get any info from them.

Let me get this straight Harry, you're blaming high health care costs on the UAW? I've been known to make some stretches in my rants, but I've got to call you out on complete bullshit on this one. Health care costs aren't sky high because of the UAW, they are sky high because of ridiculous pharmaceutical prices, Greedy HMO's and collusion by the aforementioned and our elected officials. According to your logic, A "right to work" states health care costs should be approximately 3x cheaper than in Union strongholds like MI. and OH. So apparently the nurses only make $10 an hour in Texas and the doctors only pull in 40 to 50K a year in NC..... Come On, thats complete crap. Nurses in the Dallas Fort Worth area earn between $23 and $37 an hour, and the average Physician makes $145K a year in N.C. Somehow It doesn't seem as if the UAW's princely wages have affected health care salaries too much, especially when you consider nurses in Michigan average $20 to $35 an hour and the average Physician in Michigan makes about 140K a year. It sure seems pretty similar to me. Taxes in N.C. are 4.25% sales and 6-8% personal, Michigan is 6% sales and 3.9% flat rate on personal, Texas is cheaper at 6.25% sales and no personal taxes but N.C. is just as bad as Michigan. Unions can be attacked in so many different areas, but blaming high health care costs on them is ridiculous.