akirby
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Posts posted by akirby
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38 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:
Well, Ford could shift all new US/Canada-built EVs to the new Blue Oval City since the vehicles are getting delayed and now the new facility should be ready by the time Job 1 for them actually comes. There you go with a nice big unused facility in Canada with a great record and terrific workforce ready and able to bring back the Edge, repatriate Nautilus production, and maybe do something else on the side. I know, I know. The time for that logical decision was a year or two ago. But you are saying Ford's problem is that all of their North American factories have no capacity available for new product. Well, this one apparently does and Ford's current plan seems to be to just let it sit idle for the next two years.
I was also referring to other resources needed to build and sell a new vehicle here. Engineering, design, testing, certification, marketing plus all the normal overhead. People often think it’s just factory space but every vehicle has dozens if not hundreds of dedicated employees supporting it.I agree that Oakville could and should be used for Nautilus and Edge and other C2 products if needed. Just cancel the 3 row EVs.
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9 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:
What we're seeing is Ford retreating to a high volume North American product, and a case can be made that Ford could survive at half it's current size on the F series alone. But that leaves the problem of half of Ford and it's employees with nothing to do with only F series around.
It gets worse... What happens when the trend to smaller garages and high prices cuts F series sales in half and Ford hasn't kept the Ranger competitive with Tacoma et al...
Don’t let facts get in the way of your lies. I already pointed out all the new vehicles Ford launched to replace the ones they cancelled. And Ranger is competitive now and will be even better when production is fully ramped up. -
6 hours ago, AM222 said:
As a consumer and Ford fan, it's a bit disappointing to see how a once powerful global carmaker no longer takes the global market as seriously as it used to.
It's hard to imagine that the Ranger is now the only true global Ford model.
*I don't count the Mustang because it's sold as a niche premium/luxury model in many global markets which explains why over 3/4 of its sales are still coming from the US.
In 2023 Ford sold 4.4 million vehicles worldwide, while Toyota sold 11.2 million vehicles.
A global carmaker like Toyota for example can spread the development cost of a new vehicle or platform over every vehicle it sells around the world.
Developing a non-global vehicle means it relies heavily on domestic sales, it will also probably take longer for it to be profitable. Then throw in the continuous stream of recalls that cost the company like millions or billions?
I like the Mustang, Ranger, and Bronco but I do wish they expanded their portfolio to include smaller models that Ford of Europe used to handle.
Toyota only sold 8M vehicles in 2023. 1/3 of that volume and half their profits came from Japan which is a closed market where Ford isn’t allowed to compete fairly.
I understand the disappointment but Europe and South America have been shit shows for Ford financially, even when they had decent products.
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1 hour ago, Mizzmumzy said:
Do you mean just to drive it around the corner or is this a fix? Do you know if it’s related to the TCM?
Temporary fix if it works. Might last a few minutes might last a few months but it probably needs to be replaced if that’s the problem. -
All these Ford needs and Ford should build are strictly emotional desires with zero business rationale. You can’t bring back Focus without killing either an existing product or the new cheaper EVs. So which one are you killing?
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11 minutes ago, Andrew L said:
Eh not really luxury branded pickups is not really a segment. It was tried and it failed. There's a reason why BMW and MB don't make full size pickups because no other luxury brand makes them. I still see people in Lincoln groups saying Lincoln should bring back the Blackwood or Mark LT and in all honesty they shouldn't it would be a loser right out the gate. No one wants a luxury branded pickup.
Ford was known for their cars too along side their trucks. Taurus was a huge seller in the 80s and 90s. Hell even when sales slipped in the early 2000s if you combined the Taurus and Sable sales I believe it sold more than the Camry.
To add to this Ford really needs something more value oriented and needs to stop propping up the Ford brand as if it's a premium brand. Maverick is the only vehicle they sell that starts under 25k.
Stop taking the luxury pickup thing so literally. I was just trying to make the point that different brands do different things.Taurus was a huge seller but made no profit. It was propped up by rental volume. The entire Hapeville plant made nothing but rental cars the last few years. Again you’re confusing sales with profits.
You can say Ford can’t sell higher priced vehicles but that’s exactly what they’re doing and doing it well. If they had warranty costs under control it would be even better. You can’t blame a company for playing to their strengths and maximizing their returns just because they’re not building what you like.
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26 minutes ago, joseodiaga4 said:
Agree but in that case why is Ford so behind for example GM in the full size SUV segment? It seems that Ford only can focus in one thing or max two at the same
time.
Suburban had a long history before Expedition and Excursion. Plus GM brand loyalty. Hard to dethrone the market leader even with great products. -
23 minutes ago, AM222 said:
Only Ford executives/employees care about this really, not actual consumers. This doesn't mean much in global markets outside North America that don't get the F150.
Not just executives but also employees and shareholders. And when you say things like Ford needs to or Ford should do something then that implies a business decision and I’m trying to explain why Ford is making these business decisions.You seem to only care about the consumer view and that’s fine as a consumer. But don’t try to rationalize the business decision based on that.
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3 hours ago, Andrew L said:
I am pretty sure I remember an article from MotorTrend or one of the car mags way back in the day that MB and BMW were considering a luxury pickup as well but when they saw how much of a disaster the Lincoln and Cadillac pickups were they cancelled them. I don't foresee any luxury brand offering a large pickup ever.
Which further illustrates my point. Each mfr has its niches of what they do well and that’s where they focus their resources. For BMW its performance cars and small to midsize SUvs. Kia is the same but mainstream. For Ford its trucks and SUVs. -
3 hours ago, AM222 said:
The full-size truck is mainly an American thing. Most non-American car companies think global. They'd rather invest in scalable global platforms. Kia will launch a mid-size pickup, they can sell this anywhere unlike full-size pickup trucks.
The 2-row compact SUV is a segment common around the world and Ford wants to discontinue the Escape/Kuga.
Ford relies heavily on models they can't market outdide North America as mainstream models. The F-Series is too big, the Mustang ends up being a premium model, the Bronco also ends up being a premium model limited to select left-hand drive markets. The Mach e is also premium (expensive outside the US) and is sold in very limited number of markets.
Completely missed the point. Kia would kill to be able to sell 900k vehicles at the kinds of margins that Ford gets with F series. But they can’t because they don’t have the experience or expertise nor are they willing to make the huge investment required.A company has to play to its strengths and what works for one doesn’t work for another. Companies that aren’t US based evolved differently. And companies have to prioritize their resources.
They cancelled Continental, Taurus, Fusion, MKZ, Focus, Fiesta and Ecosport. But they added Ranger, Bronco, Maverick, Bronco Sport, Aviator, Mach-e, E-transit and Lightning. And they’re working on at least 4 more new vehicles. Escape isn’t going anywhere now and I think Edge will be back.
It’s a zero sum game unless you’re willing to build new plants and hire more people.
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3 hours ago, AM222 said:
There's no rule that affordable volume models should be boring "commodity" models.
Ford used to make sharp desirable mainstream models. There are really no excuses to why the competition still makes the vehicle types Ford abandoned and at the same time remain healthy without the need for drastic sacrifices.
I know small models are just secondary in the US but these are mainstream volume models in Europe, Asia, and other international markets. Ford's competitors know this, that's why they don't just kill off models. The development cost is spread to every vehicle sold around the world.
About the Continental (Ford sold this in very limited number of markets unlike its competitors), there are many big luxury sedans out there and most are RWD-based. This includes Hyundai's full-size G90. Even if you dislike the car, it exists in 2024 and the Continental didn't make it past 2020.
Ford's real problem (at least in North America) is quality control. Despite its shrinking lineup, it's still the king of recalls, 3 Years in a row (2021, 2022, 2023), and there have been recalls this year.
Sales of large luxury sedans declined significantly as well. Has nothing to do with drivetrain. Simple market shift over the last 3 decades.And while a few people would pay a premium for a great midsized family sedan, the vast majority of sales is still people looking for a cheap appliance to get them from a to b. That’s the market whether you like it or not.
As for why Ford doesn’t sell certain vehicles but competitors do, answer this question.
Why don’t Kia, Hyundai, Volkswagen, Honda, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar, Porsche, Land Rover, Volvo or Mitsubishi sell full sized body on frame pickups or SUVs? Thats a 3M+ market they’re just ignoring. Toyota and Nissan tried with minimal results.
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5 hours ago, AM222 said:
Every time Ford called a segment dead or referred to models in a segment as just "commodity products", it usually meant, our competitors beat us, we quit.
First to go are the cars, next in line are their 2-row SUV counterparts.
Fusion was #3 behind Accord and Camry and selling close to 300K. Hermosillo was near capacity. There were 8 competitors at one time and at least 3 of those (Kia, Hyundai and Nissan) were cutting prices to gain sales. There was nothing to distinguish one from any other and outside of brand loyalists it was all about price. Ford thought they could sell $30k Titaniums but buyers wanted $25k SEs with a $4K rebate. That is the definition of commodity when the o ly way to get volume is to out cheap the competition.Nobody beat Taurus or Continental. The market just went away.
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Try disconnecting the battery for a few minutes.
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I don’t see the problem.
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Sounds like the transmission control module.
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5 hours ago, Joe771476 said:
Electric vehicles are all done!
I guess the 270,000 that bought them first quarter did t get that memo.-
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That’s not a dealer I would do business with. Borderline incompetence.
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12 hours ago, MadManMoon said:
I'll give you the awful EcoSport, but the Fiesta (minus the terrible DCT) was one of the best small cars out there, especially the ST. I still miss that car!
I meant in terms of it being too small for this market and not generating much revenue or profit.-
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9 hours ago, sks3i said:
I bought Nautilus'24 black label recently. Drive smoothness and interiors are great. But, cabin is definitely not quiet.. it is loud and can feel every bit of road noise. I honestly don't recommend this vehicle to anyone. I'm planning to sell or give it back .
Check the tire pressure. May not have been lowered after shipment.-
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1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:
I agree with your overall argument but not the bolded text. While Americans could someday reach European-style acceptance of micro vehicles they sure haven't yet. While some do sell, I wouldn't characterize those sales as "many."
Having rented a Fiat 500 several years ago I agree completely. -
1 hour ago, rmc523 said:
But I wonder if it's that or if it's more that they don't want to backtrack on the "all things trucks and SUVs, no sedans" mantra to prove they're right?
They never said that as far as I know. Thats what the people said who prefer cars.And I’ll keep saying this every time it comes up. They did not simply decide to cancel Fusion. They needed space for Maverick and Bronco Sport and Hermosillo made the most sense. They did not just cancel it and close the factory. Without the new vehicles they’d still be in production. Same for Focus at MAP. Now Taurus and Continental were killed due to poor sales. Fiesta and Ecosport were just terrible products.
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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:
I've long said they already did the work for Mondeo and Zephyr for overseas....just import medium to high trim models only (no low trims) and keep prices up that way.
The fact they already have a vehicle and space at Flat Rock says the ROI must be terrible.GM and Toyota have always valued volume over margins while Ford is the opposite here lately. GM and Toyota definitely have lower costs so their ROI is batter on individual vehicles. Ford wasted a lot of money developing so many new platforms and engines recently - some of which were discarded. And we know about warranty costs. When you keep things longer and don’t develop as many new things your cost tends to stay much lower.
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Not a driving story but in college I was asst mgr at a local furniture store. The manager only had one set of keys and I had to close at night, so I would lock the front door with the key and throw them in the back of the delivery truck so the mgr could open the next morning. One night I closed up at 8:00 pm, put up the keys and jumped in my 1975 cutlass. But I couldn’t remember if I locked the back door so I drove around, jumped on the dock, checked the back door and jumped back in the car because it was cold. Local cop sees me and thinks I’m breaking in. I said I’m the asst mgr, the store just closed 5 mins ago and the keys are in the back of that truck. He finally let me go and said stop acting so suspicious.
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1 hour ago, fordmantpw said:
My daughter flashed her lights at someone a couple weeks ago because she said it looked like their lights were on bright and she couldn't see. Turns out it was a cop. Cost her $150. Apparently, the cop was an ass about it too. Expensive lesson for a college kid.
You have to be careful about that. It can appear that other cars have brights on when it’s just the curve of the road. If the fog lamps are on then brights can’t be on for factory lights at least. That cop must have been having a bad day.
REPORT: Ford Edge Production Continuation Wasn't Possible
in Ford Motor Company Discussion Forum
Posted
Oakville can easily be redirected to continue with ICE if that’s the direction they want to go. In addition to Nautilus and Edge you could move Corsair and possibly even Escape there freeing up Louisville for the new EVs. That makes BOC, Louisville and Cuatitlan to make EVs along with Lightning at the F150 plant if they continue it for Ford Pro.
And I don’t see any new PHEVs, just hybrids for everything and Oakville has a battery supplier.