akirby
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Posts posted by akirby
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3 hours ago, Andrew L said:
I am pretty sure I remember an article from MotorTrend or one of the car mags way back in the day that MB and BMW were considering a luxury pickup as well but when they saw how much of a disaster the Lincoln and Cadillac pickups were they cancelled them. I don't foresee any luxury brand offering a large pickup ever.
Which further illustrates my point. Each mfr has its niches of what they do well and that’s where they focus their resources. For BMW its performance cars and small to midsize SUvs. Kia is the same but mainstream. For Ford its trucks and SUVs. -
3 hours ago, AM222 said:
The full-size truck is mainly an American thing. Most non-American car companies think global. They'd rather invest in scalable global platforms. Kia will launch a mid-size pickup, they can sell this anywhere unlike full-size pickup trucks.
The 2-row compact SUV is a segment common around the world and Ford wants to discontinue the Escape/Kuga.
Ford relies heavily on models they can't market outdide North America as mainstream models. The F-Series is too big, the Mustang ends up being a premium model, the Bronco also ends up being a premium model limited to select left-hand drive markets. The Mach e is also premium (expensive outside the US) and is sold in very limited number of markets.
Completely missed the point. Kia would kill to be able to sell 900k vehicles at the kinds of margins that Ford gets with F series. But they can’t because they don’t have the experience or expertise nor are they willing to make the huge investment required.A company has to play to its strengths and what works for one doesn’t work for another. Companies that aren’t US based evolved differently. And companies have to prioritize their resources.
They cancelled Continental, Taurus, Fusion, MKZ, Focus, Fiesta and Ecosport. But they added Ranger, Bronco, Maverick, Bronco Sport, Aviator, Mach-e, E-transit and Lightning. And they’re working on at least 4 more new vehicles. Escape isn’t going anywhere now and I think Edge will be back.
It’s a zero sum game unless you’re willing to build new plants and hire more people.
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3 hours ago, AM222 said:
There's no rule that affordable volume models should be boring "commodity" models.
Ford used to make sharp desirable mainstream models. There are really no excuses to why the competition still makes the vehicle types Ford abandoned and at the same time remain healthy without the need for drastic sacrifices.
I know small models are just secondary in the US but these are mainstream volume models in Europe, Asia, and other international markets. Ford's competitors know this, that's why they don't just kill off models. The development cost is spread to every vehicle sold around the world.
About the Continental (Ford sold this in very limited number of markets unlike its competitors), there are many big luxury sedans out there and most are RWD-based. This includes Hyundai's full-size G90. Even if you dislike the car, it exists in 2024 and the Continental didn't make it past 2020.
Ford's real problem (at least in North America) is quality control. Despite its shrinking lineup, it's still the king of recalls, 3 Years in a row (2021, 2022, 2023), and there have been recalls this year.
Sales of large luxury sedans declined significantly as well. Has nothing to do with drivetrain. Simple market shift over the last 3 decades.And while a few people would pay a premium for a great midsized family sedan, the vast majority of sales is still people looking for a cheap appliance to get them from a to b. That’s the market whether you like it or not.
As for why Ford doesn’t sell certain vehicles but competitors do, answer this question.
Why don’t Kia, Hyundai, Volkswagen, Honda, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar, Porsche, Land Rover, Volvo or Mitsubishi sell full sized body on frame pickups or SUVs? Thats a 3M+ market they’re just ignoring. Toyota and Nissan tried with minimal results.
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5 hours ago, AM222 said:
Every time Ford called a segment dead or referred to models in a segment as just "commodity products", it usually meant, our competitors beat us, we quit.
First to go are the cars, next in line are their 2-row SUV counterparts.
Fusion was #3 behind Accord and Camry and selling close to 300K. Hermosillo was near capacity. There were 8 competitors at one time and at least 3 of those (Kia, Hyundai and Nissan) were cutting prices to gain sales. There was nothing to distinguish one from any other and outside of brand loyalists it was all about price. Ford thought they could sell $30k Titaniums but buyers wanted $25k SEs with a $4K rebate. That is the definition of commodity when the o ly way to get volume is to out cheap the competition.Nobody beat Taurus or Continental. The market just went away.
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Try disconnecting the battery for a few minutes.
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I don’t see the problem.
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Sounds like the transmission control module.
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5 hours ago, Joe771476 said:
Electric vehicles are all done!
I guess the 270,000 that bought them first quarter did t get that memo.-
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That’s not a dealer I would do business with. Borderline incompetence.
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12 hours ago, MadManMoon said:
I'll give you the awful EcoSport, but the Fiesta (minus the terrible DCT) was one of the best small cars out there, especially the ST. I still miss that car!
I meant in terms of it being too small for this market and not generating much revenue or profit.-
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9 hours ago, sks3i said:
I bought Nautilus'24 black label recently. Drive smoothness and interiors are great. But, cabin is definitely not quiet.. it is loud and can feel every bit of road noise. I honestly don't recommend this vehicle to anyone. I'm planning to sell or give it back .
Check the tire pressure. May not have been lowered after shipment.-
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1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:
I agree with your overall argument but not the bolded text. While Americans could someday reach European-style acceptance of micro vehicles they sure haven't yet. While some do sell, I wouldn't characterize those sales as "many."
Having rented a Fiat 500 several years ago I agree completely. -
1 hour ago, rmc523 said:
But I wonder if it's that or if it's more that they don't want to backtrack on the "all things trucks and SUVs, no sedans" mantra to prove they're right?
They never said that as far as I know. Thats what the people said who prefer cars.And I’ll keep saying this every time it comes up. They did not simply decide to cancel Fusion. They needed space for Maverick and Bronco Sport and Hermosillo made the most sense. They did not just cancel it and close the factory. Without the new vehicles they’d still be in production. Same for Focus at MAP. Now Taurus and Continental were killed due to poor sales. Fiesta and Ecosport were just terrible products.
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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:
I've long said they already did the work for Mondeo and Zephyr for overseas....just import medium to high trim models only (no low trims) and keep prices up that way.
The fact they already have a vehicle and space at Flat Rock says the ROI must be terrible.GM and Toyota have always valued volume over margins while Ford is the opposite here lately. GM and Toyota definitely have lower costs so their ROI is batter on individual vehicles. Ford wasted a lot of money developing so many new platforms and engines recently - some of which were discarded. And we know about warranty costs. When you keep things longer and don’t develop as many new things your cost tends to stay much lower.
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Not a driving story but in college I was asst mgr at a local furniture store. The manager only had one set of keys and I had to close at night, so I would lock the front door with the key and throw them in the back of the delivery truck so the mgr could open the next morning. One night I closed up at 8:00 pm, put up the keys and jumped in my 1975 cutlass. But I couldn’t remember if I locked the back door so I drove around, jumped on the dock, checked the back door and jumped back in the car because it was cold. Local cop sees me and thinks I’m breaking in. I said I’m the asst mgr, the store just closed 5 mins ago and the keys are in the back of that truck. He finally let me go and said stop acting so suspicious.
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1 hour ago, fordmantpw said:
My daughter flashed her lights at someone a couple weeks ago because she said it looked like their lights were on bright and she couldn't see. Turns out it was a cop. Cost her $150. Apparently, the cop was an ass about it too. Expensive lesson for a college kid.
You have to be careful about that. It can appear that other cars have brights on when it’s just the curve of the road. If the fog lamps are on then brights can’t be on for factory lights at least. That cop must have been having a bad day. -
18 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:
What does the dealer do to "earn" that $15k and why do they deserve more?
Paperwork. 😂. That’s a hell of a doc fee.-
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6 hours ago, tbone said:
i understand where you are coming from, that this vehicle will have top of the line performance, and I don’t doubt that, but it just doesn’t appeal to me otherwise. As you have pointed out, the garish wing doesn’t help matters, but it has its purpose. I might like the car more if it didn’t have that.
But that’s just it - if you’re not interested in lap times on a track then this isn’t the car for you anyway. It’s not a daily driver. Think of it more like the cobra jet mustang drag cars. Or a 911 GT3 RS. You have to make huge compromises to maximize track performance. Everything on it is about maximizing performance not appearance.-
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5 hours ago, jpd80 said:
And that’s exactly my point, Ford took off with large design teams developing their key vehicles but, the efficiencies from the skunkworks aren’t just this type of battery or that control system…Ford compared what was done between the developments and discovered that much of the efficiency gains comes from not doing the conventional development way that Ford did…they need someone to think outside of the box and show them where all the unnecessary, redundant steps are in the process and look at new way to do everything…..especially cutting the time to make vehicles. An ex Tesla engineering manager is the perfect person to show them how it’s done.
Again we agree just using different words.I think they did some process reengineering 2 yrs ago based on what they knew at the time and what they learned from Mach-e and Lightning but Farley thought there was more to be done including low cost EVs. So he formed the skunkworks team. But you can’t just sit back and wait 2 years to see IF they find something new that would apply to other programs.
There is risk in waiting for new processes and there is risk to moving ahead in parallel. If it only cost them 1 year on T3 then moving ahead was better than waiting 2 years to start.
We all know Oakville was the wrong products in the wrong plant at the wrong time. Period.
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That capacity can easily be reused.
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4 hours ago, jpd80 said:
On the contrary,
The vehicles for Oakville were transferred from Cuautitlan after being delayed two years and redesigned,
so by the time they arrive they will be delayed four years and hopefully, not only up to date but cutting edge.
Double the production cost,
Mach E was a massive redesign, so basically double the funding was thrown at it to correctnot only the styling error but also the inadequate battery and driveline which were simply
extensions of what was used in the previous E Focus. None of that was going to work.
Priority,
The need for a quickly developed Lightning meant that it went first while Ford delayed
it’s answer to the Silverado BEV. The current Lightning allowed Ford to get a BEV truckup and running faster, the lessons learned for the current Lightning are still continuing
which is why Ford is already revising T3 batteries, there much to be grateful about this
pull back as Ford was always going to struggle with battery range looking inadequate.
The biggest gift will be if the Cybertruck turns out to be a disappointment to the many
eager buyers …..hopefully Tesla plays its part and snatches defeat from the jaws of victory
Whats not mentioned anywhere is that Ford has had a good look under the hood of VW
and that MEB tool kit, deciding it didn’t need the over priced batteries, the VW controller
or the drives and motors……LOL, with the Ford top hats, there’s not much VW left in them…
Maybe I should have said this first….I probably sound critical of Ford and I apologise for the high horse attitude. I just want Ford
to be the best it can be and not settle for just good enough, get out in front and lead….
I don’t disagree with any of that. Were just looking at it from different angles. -
46 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:
Blue Oval City doesn't have a 3000 employee payroll to make.
And again how does idling BOC help OAC? -
3 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:
I personally love the way it looks, it's sexy as hell. The wing is a little too big, but it serves a purpose. Is 300k a lot of money? Of course, but relative to the level of performance this car offers, it's a bargain. Keep in mind this thing is literally going to be beating million dollar exotics for a third the price, that's not just speculation either. Ford says it can run the run in well under 7 mins, that puts it above the 918 and p1. I'm willing to bet this car will beat the Ford gt around most tracks as well, given it's massive areo and power advantage.
I think folks are severely underestimating the performance of this thing.-
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3 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:
The new assembly plants under construction can be delayed- There will be contractual penalties but nothing near the cost of paying OAC's workers with no cars built and no revenue produced.
Idling blue oval city would do nothing to help OAC.
REPORT: Ford Edge Production Continuation Wasn't Possible
in Ford Motor Company Discussion Forum
Posted
Not just executives but also employees and shareholders. And when you say things like Ford needs to or Ford should do something then that implies a business decision and I’m trying to explain why Ford is making these business decisions.
You seem to only care about the consumer view and that’s fine as a consumer. But don’t try to rationalize the business decision based on that.