BlackHorse

Yes I see. But it's okay to insult people who drive the Prius, people who design the Prius or people who like the Prius. Nothing has changed, just as some of us knew that nothing would change. I even predicted we would be back to the same double standard within a week. I was right. Frankly I don't care what you do Richard. Haven't cared for years now. The root word of the term moderator is moderate, which neither you nor any other "moderator" here has ever been and likely never will be. Do whatever you want.

lol Yeah, okay.

Sour grapes fellas. Kev Mo is right, the car will still sell in substantial numbers regardless of what we here think about how it looks. Let's be honest Ford has made some ugly stuff over the years too. Most recently the Flex comes to mind. The only difference is that Ford's ugly stuff doesn't sell and Toyota's does.

I thought that's what I did. I have no interest in arguing about the FJ.

Probably not, but they are taking them out here. They have a bunch of them that are being used as parts cars to keep those that are still in service running. Right now they are replacing them with the Explorer. They tried the Taurus but its just not been that popular with the Officers or the maintenance shop.

If there was no follow on demand than used prices would not be so high would they? lol See how that works. There is a core group of enthusiasts about the vehicle but it's not large enough to sustain production. Anyway, this is not about the failure of the FJ, this is about a potential Bronco and how Ford should approach that idea.

I couldn't care less about demand. People are followers for the most part. They buy something because other people in their circle of influence told them its cool or its the way to go. That is true whether we are talking about cars or cell phones or tennis shoes. It doesn't necessarily mean that an 8 year old FJ with nearly 60K miles on it is really worth 28 grand. It just means there are enough suckers out there willing to pay it. For that matter the resale value on the Jeeps is pretty high too. I know you're going to hit me with the old "something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it". Nah, there's a sucker born every minute is more like it. lol.

I personally didn't mind the look of the FJ. I thought it looked pretty decent and with a good grill guard it looked pretty nice. But I still would not have bought one because they wanted too much money for what you got and in 4WD trim the prices really took off when you could get the Wrangler for thousands less apples to apples. Those prices, by the way, have not come down any. A quick peak at carmax revealed the following examples in this area. 2007 FJ 2WD, with 99K miles, $18,998 2007 FJ 2WD, with 99K miles, $19,995 2007 FJ 4WD, with 57K miles, $27,998 2007 FJ 4WD, with 81K miles, $21,599 To put that into perspective, a brand new 2015 Wrangler Unlimited 4x4 starts at $26,795. It is no wonder the FJ failed in my opinion.

The problem with the FJ was that it competed directly with the Wrangler Unlimited but had a higher price tag, required premium fuel and wasn't really a 4 door like the Wrangler Unlimited is. I know, . . . we are all shocked that a Toyota had a high price tag. There are plenty of niche vehicles out there that have been around for a long time, one of them sold by Ford, so it can be done.

I think the problem with the Expedition line of thought is that the cheapest 4X4 Expedition you can get starts at 48 thousand. A two door Bronco on an F150 chassis with a solid rear axle even in 4WD trim could probably start under 35. I don't have a problem with them making the Bronco a midsize vehicle but I think it would be a waste of time to add yet another midsize uni-body SUV to the lineup. No matter what, a Bronco is going to be a niche product, so I would think it makes since to tailor it to the niche that is going to buy it instead of trying to make it some mass market vehicle in a sea of mass market vehicles. That just sounds like planning to fail to me.

That's not funny butthead. lol

Yes, I feel a great swell of pity for the poor soul that comes to my house looking for trouble. lol The heat shroud works great. I can put 20 or 30 rounds through it in a matter of a minute or two and just grab the gun by the barrel with no worry of burns.

Probably so, just as the current generation rejected the once popular minivan in favor of the SUV.

I have a Mossberg 590 military spec. It's complete with bayonet lug, heat shroud and 8 slug capacity. Great shotgun.

I don't think Trump looks at it as giving in. Trump is well aware that third party candidates don't win in Presidential elections. He's a very smart guy. He never had any intention of running third party because he is in this to win. He's not going to waste his time and money on a campaign that has no chance. Essentially what happened today is the rest of the republicans vowed to support Trump, they just don't realize it yet.

That's a tough question and I'm not sure we should apply the answer to the broader SUV market in general. Keep in mind that a lot of people still buy the Wrangler for the specific purpose of having fun off road and to that end the 2 door is the preferred model because of the break over angle. The 4 door version is definitely popular but mostly with the buyers who have families and want to be able to put the kids in the back and go have some fun out in the wild green yonder. It is still a very capable off road vehicle, just not quite as capable as the 2 door version. I think the Wrangler is probably the one SUV that still sells well in the 2 door version simply because of its intended use. I think if Jeep were coming out with a new Wrangler they would co-develop both the 2 and 4 door versions with equal intent because both are going to sell well. It's not like that for any other SUV out there that I know of.

That has been my hope for a long time now. I'm totally on board with it brother.

I'd agree with that. The Mustang really nailed the retro look without over doing it and by the 2013 / 2014 model it was very well done for my personal tastes. It also helped that the price tags were low enough that it had a broad customer base. Ironically this has also been the appeal of the Jeep. It has constantly maintained that iconic Jeep look while at the same being affordable enough for a broad customer base.

Anyway I think the Jeep truck is a great idea and long overdue. I remember when Jeep was testing the JT prototype several years ago and it got a great deal of positive feedback, especially from Wrangler fans. I think its probably going to sell very well.

I have to agree with that, the retro-Thunderbird didn't fail because of heritage. It failed because it wasn't all that visually appealing and it had a price tag that ensured a very small customer base. If you look at the S197 Mustang, which essentially followed the same "heritage" idea, it did very well.

A good friend of mine is actually one of the top salesman at the local Kia dealer and I asked him about that very thing. He informed me that 1. No you don't have to get all your service work done at the dealership (i.e. oil changes etc). You can have that stuff done anywhere you like. 2. No they won't negate your warranty if you do have service done elsewhere. 3. Hyundai / Kia really do just offer a 100K power train warranty no questions asked.

It is a good deal. It's a small credit union and they were really working to generate loan traffic. So they covered the cost of an extended warranty and gave a good interest rate but you had to have a good credit score.

I don't instigate arguments akirby and I'm not trying to now. I just said what I think and once again got jumped on. If you have numerous posters saying "hey there's a clique here" than lets address that so that we can encourage more posters to take part here. That is all that I'm trying to say.

So that's what, 3 or 4 posters now, that have pointed out that they feel there is a core clique here that has a tendency to gang up on people and / or run people off? I have to agree with that and it's a shame because that same core group of people in question are actually very, very knowledgeable about Ford and Ford products. They could be an immense help to this forum with that knowledge instead of taking the path of the "You don't know what you're talking about and I do so shut up!" approach that is all to common. Yea, that has a tendency to run people off and leaving the casual observer to think that there's only about 10 to 20 people that post here.

Not for an extra charge actually. It was a bonus offered by the credit union where I financed the car. They wanted to get a loan and offered a 100K warranty on the car as an incentive along with 3.2%.