edselford

All future vehicle platforms need to be able to have both hybrid and EV versions without reinventing the wheel each time! edselford

Oakville should be retooled to produce a ford version of the 2024 Lincoln Nautilus hybrid. There is a good market for a modern three row Edge, smaller than the Explorer. Only offer it as a hybrid AWD. This will keep customers in fords until the revised Explorer hybrid is ready. Nautalus already built in China on a modified Edge platform. hybrids maintain freedom of movement without restrictions! edselford

Very good discussion on ten speed automatics! Could this group of experts ever see a hybrid eVCT transmission in F150/250350? That is a rear wheel drive transmission with a single planetary, starter/generator and a large traction motor on the rear output shaft. Fords current F250 hybrid solution is very costly design. I am just wondering??? edselford usually, more speeds usually means more ratio spread which helps fuel economy!

So we lost the Limited and the Sport Package on the XLT, and the off road version is missing in action for the start of this minor 2025 revision! New people, new ideas I guess. I was hoping for the new 2.3 with dual fuel system and the smaller bore with a longer stroke but that did not happen either. I had to turn in a 2021 Explorer XLT last December and ended up leasing an existing 2023 Explorer ST-Line . The ST-Line is a significant improvement over the 2021 XLT. Looks like the engineers revised the 2.3 calibration and the ten speed automatic calibration to a point that I have no reason to complain about shift quality or NVH! It would of been nice to have the steering column with upshift/downshift buttons but that was eliminated in my 2023 with the tow package! The 2025 forced you into 21” wheels if you also want bench seats in the second row. That is not a good idea! Edselford

It’s an interesting question being asked by the OEM’s right now. Electric are easier to build but weigh allot more than IC engined vehicles. most people don’t have the luxury of having an EV vehicle and an IC vehicle for long/vacation trips. can you just jump in your EV and take an impromptu trip to Atlanta??? I don’t think so. I would venture a guess that if we knew the total CO2 equation for IC versus EV ,complete life cycle, I just wonder why we are trying to take the trip??? Maybe, hydrogen, ammonia hydrogen or something to combust without the carbonC, it might be smart to Waite until these new technogies can reduce CO2 without putting up with long charge times. Also federal tax credits for a period of time, covers up the real cost of the EV technology! If I were Ford, GM and Stalantus, I would delay the switchover to EV because people are not ready for them Keep the Edge, the Chrysler300 and others . Don’t bet the farm on EV’s edselford

Anyone have latest information on the 2025 Explorer?? I heard that 2024 is a complete carryover except for elimination of the hybrid and may only be a two month production run??? I have to turn in my 2021 Explorer lease next week and would prefer ordering a 2025 not a carryover 2024, if 2025 production starts early next year! Thank You in advance for your help edselford

Very interesting topic. Thank all for the background information. I should of clarified my prior post and said that ATX means front wheel drive automatic transaxle! Note, it looks like the 2024 model year Traverse and Arcadia and the 2025 Enclave will be utilizing an 8 speed ATX not the current 9 speed. I assume GM will follow Ford by taking some parts out of the 9 to get to the new 8 speed ATX! I also wonder if ford turned the 10R80 into a 9R80 if the new 2025 Explorer ST would be any quicker ?? edselford

Don’t over react to the elimination of the 3.3 hybrid Explorer. Like the delay of the 2024 Model Year launch, to 2025 MY, many thing are being revised. If you think about it, a 3.3 V6 Atkinson cycle, turbo hybrid may be one route to gain needed fuel economy. This would make sense if Ford Finds a way to make the Cyclone engines 3.3/3.5 V6’s a “hot” V design, to reduce turbo costs, (two to just one turbo) I am not convinced a 2.3 hybrid could be refined enough for the next Explorer given my experience with my leased 2021MY XLT! edselford

Maybe Ford is responding to the new Chevy Traverse coming out in The spring 2024? The current base 2.3 liter with 300 hp and 310 lbs ft torque would not be competitive! Also, Traverse looks like new good looking SUV and the revised Explorer probably did not go far enough in the mid cycle redesign, on the outside! The Explorer product manager must be pulling out some hair right now. If the new Explorer doesn’t include the “New” 2.3 utilizing 102 mm stroke and a refined transmission/engine calibration, the new vehicle would not be worth taking the trip! Ie delay the launch and get it right the first time out of the box! edselford

Has any governmental agency/ commercial corporation done a complete study of EV vehicle usage on CO2 levels? when I say complete, I mean birth to death analysis for all the energy/emissions, employment levels etc? I ask this question probably a little too late but every time I look at any EV vehicles, I see a very heavy vehicle requiring very large brakes and tires and I question the wisdom of betting the farm on EV’s. I am old(74) and remember in the 1970’s focusing on finding pounds we could take out of cars to be able to put them in a lower inertia class for improved vehicle economy! Now we are producing “tanks” for trucks and SUV’s that thrill people going from zero to 60 mph in 4 to 5 seconds. where is the wisdom in that? All of the cost analysis are interesting but when government agencies realize all the revenue taxes they loose by having people switch to EV’s I am sure the real cost of EV will be adjusted to make up the shortfall. edselford

Does anyone know the timing for 2023 Explorer dealer orders to switch over to 2024 design? 2024 refinements look pretty good! edselford

Studying the transmission specs of the Ford ten speed, I just wonder if anything is actually gained by having the ten speed versus nine other than bragging rights??? The Ford/GM ten speed has an unusual 5 th gear ratio of 1.52 which is only 16% different than fourth gear of1.77 to 1! It might make. More sense to completely eliminate the -1.52 ratio and slightly adjust fourth gear from 1.77 to a ratio of 1.65 to one. If this could be done, we have a very nice drive able nine speed without the skip shifts we have now. This seemed to be Ford’s approach on the 9 versus 8 ATX done with GM where GM uses nine and Ford uses 8 speeds on the same basic design! Or is ten ten speeds inherent in the basic design? edselford

I have an 2021 Explorer. XLT 4WD with 33,000 miles. It has been a nice vehicle with no issues until now! When I drive in the 4 wheel slippery mode, I have noticed a kind of droning sound that starts at 62 mph and goes away at around 66 mph! The noise almost sounds like something is cycling on and off. Has anyone experienced this? What is causing this sound? Four wheel drive or turbo? Other? Appreciate any inputs edselford

I saw this truck today near Ford’s development center. Can anyone figure what it is? edselford

Some further thoughts on 2024 Ford Explorer! I think the focus should be on “Refinement”. There will be the CX90 having an inline 6 turbo as standard competing with the Explorer. Maybe Ford needs to make the 3.0 V6 ecoboost engine an option on the Limited Model? Say the 385 hp version and bump the 3.0 V6 on the ST model to say 425 hp?? I assume ford could handle the 2 mpg reduction in CAFE given all the new electric vehicles they will be producing. 3.0V6 could be an $1100 option? About half of the Limited volume would be the V6 with incremental profit contribution. I don’t know why there is an ST line with the 2.3? I would think the XLT sport package would cover most customer wants. Most people that like the looks of the ST also want the performance! What do you guys and gal think? edselford

Ford does have a way to go to move the 2024 Explorer into the must have category. Does anyone know if it will have the new 2.3 ecoboost with the 102 mm stroke? Does this new 2.3 have two balance shafts??? Also would like to see a more refined calibration of the ten speed and the 2.3 liter engine. I have a 2021 MY 4WD and the calibration is not smooth with too many clunks up shifting and coming to a stop. I do not like the skip shifts, why have the gear if you’re going to skip it in normal driving? Chassis dynamics is very good but I would like to see the double wishbone front suspension used on the Aviator become the design for the 2024 Explorer. Trim could be improved . Power and acceleration from the 2.3 is great but NVH levels are too high fir this vehicle especially under normal acceleration. If I had a choice, I would rather have a naturally asperated 3.3 V6 maybe with cylinder deactivation , (the middle two). and avoid the problems I4 engines bigger than 2 liters have. edselford

I would like to see Ford hit a grand slam with the upcoming 2024 Explorer! I leased a 2021 Explorer XLT 4WD in December 2020 and have had 26,000 miles of trouble free driving. However, I do see a few things that need improvement after driving this SUV for almost two years. My prior Explorer was a 2011 XLT 4WD , 3.5 V6 which never gave me any issues except for an electric motor radiator failure that sent the vehicle into limp home mode one time! The current Explorer needs to have a smoother and quieter base engine. The 2.3 is noisy when accelerating and does not show the refinement needed to be competitive in this market segment. It should be as smooth as the 2.0 liter ecoboost in an escape! Power and acceleration is fine and actual fuel economy on the highway is amazing. The other gripe is the base radio is too poor and should be improved. Vehicle handling is ideal but ride quality could be improved. I hope Ford considers this input for their 2024 Explorer. edselford

I noticed that the Australian information on the 2023 Mustang talks about a revised 2.3 ecoboost I4 with a revised bore and stroke! Does anyone know if this will affect all 2.3 liters utilized in other vehicles, like the 2023 Explorer? I assume probably smaller bore with longer stroke? 85 mm bore and 101 mm stroke? Will the 2.0 liter also get revised at the same time? I assume this is being done to make design more robust for higher turbo boost and more power and torque? rdselford

I never thought ford would go down to .307” between finished bores in a cast iron block! Probably, 60 years of casting technology refinements and seimezed block bores did the trick. Ford removed weight going from 462 MEL to the 385 460 but actually gave up low end torque because the 462 heads flowed better than the 385 heads to about 4800 rpm. I think until charging times are like ten minutes, for a full recharge, we will have IC power for vast majority of pickup truck buyers. Also, when federal and state governments see their tax revenues get slashed because of electrics, we will see some type of transportation surcharge(tax) imposed to make up the shortfall and the cost benefit of EV will drastically change. Imagine if we some day have to ration electricity for EV vehicles because coal produces net positive CO2 and natural gas is too expensive? I see this as a 20 year process not 5 years! edselford

Very interesting discussion on 427 vs 428 FE offerings. For the most part what. is reviewed is accurate! However, in the mid 1960’s Ford needed to come up with a competitive V8 for full sized cars because the 390 V8 was not competitive with the 396/427 Chevy or the other offerings . Also, the base 428 ford offered in 1966 was not much stronger than the 390. Chevy did offer the 427 in full sized cars at lower hp levels (385hp) Ford had nothing but the high performance 427 which could not be purchased with an automatic or power steering! In 1968, ford offered a 427 FE side oiler block, hydraulic lifter engine for a short period of time rated at 390 hp. It utilized a 600 cfm Holley carb and it was offered only with a heavy Duty C6 automatic. The vehicle was almost as fast as the 428 cobra jet. I think the cobra jet utilized at 750 cfm Holly. Except for the different blocks bores/strokes, and carburetors, the engines were almost identical . The big difference was ford’s manufacturing costs because of the 4.63” bore centers of the FE family, the 427 was very expensive to make. The 428 could be made without the high scrap rate of the 427 block machining process and on the same machining line as the 352 & 390 . The 427 was machined on a special machine, one at a time. edselford

So how do we find the real bore and stroke of the new 6.8 liter V8? edselford

Looks like the math is off slightly! bore and stroke of 4.22 X3.68 gets you to 411.76 cubic inches not 415! The 3.68 might actually be 3.70 or about 94 mm. However, if we use metric 107.2 X 94 we get to. 6.787 liters or 414 cubic inches Makes me wonder if the 3.68 and 415 are mis prints????? edselford

Well, it looks like ford is placing itself into a good market position with the lower cost 6.8 V8 when compared to the 6.2 it replaced. 6.8 competes with the GM 6.6 LT8 as base engine in super-duty trucks with 7.3 as a profit generating option! It will be interesting to see the rod/stroke spec, probably around 1.75 if 6.8 deck height is the same as the 7.3. A little like the old Chevy 327 V8. Horsepower and torque numbers need to exceed that of the GM LT8 so figure around 415 hp and 475 lbs-ft. I am surprised DI was not included at this point. edselford

Bob sounds like you had a very fast Torino 428 CJ in a sleeper body, hatch back! I wish I could find a good one out there now. I had a 1966 Ford Galaxie XL with a 390, 4100 four barrel carb, C6 with a 3.0 axle. Car was very slow compared to Chevy 327 power glide and my dad’s 352 Galaxie 500. 390 was very dependable and got retired at 149,000 miles with only water pump replacements. There was a 1968 Ford Galaxie LTD and Cougar that offered a 427 ford side oiler block with hydraulic lifters only offered with the C6 rated at 390 hp. It performed almost as good as the 428 cobra jet! when I started working at ford in 1969, ford made a 427, a 428 , 429, 462 and 460 engines and it seemed like all at the same time. edselford

Wewq3. I guess we will have to Wait to see if 6.8 only has port injection???? I do not disagree with your statements on RAM, or 6.8 in F150. RAM has been the big winner so far based on volume increases versus ten years ago. I doubt that most of the increased volume is due to pushrods vs OHC. They sold the new Ram with the old Ram trucks for quite some time! About $2200 difference in price! At first, I thought the volume was coming out of Chevy/GMC. It may warrant a closer look with F150 volumes too. Also before the Coyote 5.0 V8 came out, there was a prior generation 5.8 DOC V8 in the Mustang., tall deck 5.4 bored out to 93.5mm in aluminum with PWT bore coating. In the same F250 or F350 I would think the 6.8 would get better fuel mileage than the 7.3. May be Ford hedging their bet with Hydrogen/LNG technology maturing at least in commercial applications with IC engines. Just think of a 6.8 ecoboost fueled with hydrogen in the not too distant future as an alternative to pure EV.