FordBuyer
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Posts posted by FordBuyer
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36 minutes ago, rperez817 said:
Maybe as a precursor to launch of Equinox EV, today General Motors announced that prices on Bolt EV and Bolt EUV are being lowered by $5,900 and $6,300 respectively for 2023. 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV/EUV Prices Confirmed: Much Lower Than 2022 (insideevs.com)
2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV/EUV prices:
Model Base Price Dest. Charge Tax Credit Effective Price 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV 1LT $25,600 +$995 N/A $26,595 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV 2LT $28,800 +$995 N/A $29,795 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV LT $27,200 +$995 N/A $28,195 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV Premier $31,700 +$995 N/A $32,695 Kudos to GM for offering a very affordable, multi functional BEV for under $30,000. And decent range.
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20 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said:
Current Escape runs until MY2027. There is no next generation ICE planned. It will be replaced by a BEV. Hopefully the Escape name will continue on the BEV.
That is my argument.....keep the Escape and Edge nameplate and supply it to BEV if Ford can deliver on battery supplies. Ford will need an Equinox EV fighter, and Escape DNA fits the bill. BS has the off the road vibe, and not everyone cares about that ability. And as of now full electrics have that aero, sleek
look, and BS is stubby and boxy. Escape is sleeker with smooth, curvy lines and gets better fuel mileage no matter what the power train.
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37 minutes ago, rperez817 said:
Car and Driver released official instrumented test results for F-150 Lightning Platinum ER. Not surprisingly, it's the quickest stock F-150 in history. 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning Is Even Quicker Than Expected (caranddriver.com)
- 0-60 mph: 4.0 seconds
- Quarter mile: 12.7 seconds @ 107 mph
- 30–50 mph: 1.6 seconds
- 50–70 mph: 2.2 seconds
Raiti's Rides got his hands on a Lariat trim Lightning, and very impressive inside and out. I believe the sticker was $78,000, but we know dealers charge much more than that. Raiti took it out on road, and very impressive handler and figures above speak for themselves. Now the hard part....meeting demand.
Also, it looks like Ford is not going to break out Lightning sales as for May they were included in FSeries sales. Ditto with Transit EV and Explorer cop cars.
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21 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:
I agree with your sentiment - Ford has a good product with brand equity in Escape, but allowed the finance group to cost cut the current gen (particularly the interior) to mediocrity. Remember when Mulally said that every product would be best in its segment? The Escape fails that metric. It has very good bones - the hybrid and plug in models are good/very good from an engineering stand point, but don't "stand out above the crowd" as you wrote.
At some point, Ford will run out of niches to fill, and they will have to design, build, and sell a competitive product in a competitive segment. I wish they would not 'cut bait' here, and elevate their game on Escape - which agrees with what you wrote.
Probably my biggest problem with Ford over the years is how quickly the cut and run away from nameplates. Too many to enumerate and more than most.
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19 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:
If they were going to go that route, they'd have to give the escape far more expressive styling to stand out. I could also see them focusing on making it a really good street performance crossover, kinda like a baby mach-e. Would allow them to make the escape more unique, without stepping on the toes of the off-road oriented bronco sport.
In Europe Ford makes the Escape ST, but for some reason not here. Ford could do a lot more dith the Escape if it was motivated enough. Time will tell, but Ford seems to barely me to mention the Escspe lately which does not bode well. However, Ford should be showing the 2023 Escape soon to get get a better idea.
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51 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said:
The rumors from a few years ago that OHAP was going to become a BEV plant may be taking shape. I think with oil prices so high Ford (and the others) will see a significant drop in large pickup sales. I would not be surprised if Super Duty cab and chassis production could be folded back into KTP at some point. Could leave OHAP open for anything.
So that means those who buy $90,000 Super Duties care about fuel prices?
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49 minutes ago, rmc523 said:
how are they getting enough volume for 5 products at one plant without major expansion? Unless they’re projecting a small fraction of current sales?Ok. If you say so. I don’t care about MPGs. Glad you determined that for me lol.
to matter of factly 100% say people with Sasquatch don’t care about MPGs is just plain untrue.
while it may not be on the top of the list, i and others absolutely do care and would like more out of it.
Most people are on budgets, even those with high 6 figure incomes. Add in high inflation, and those budgets are getting stretched.
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47 minutes ago, rmc523 said:
how are they getting enough volume for 5 products at one plant without major expansion? Unless they’re projecting a small fraction of current sales?Ok. If you say so. I don’t care about MPGs. Glad you determined that for me lol.
to matter of factly 100% say people with Sasquatch don’t care about MPGs is just plain untrue.
while it may not be on the top of the list, i and others absolutely do care and would like more out of it.
Weird how I see a lot of expensive, gas guzzling vehicles lined up at Sam's Club looking for cheaper gas and willing to wait 30+ minutes to do so. Crazy world.
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32 minutes ago, rmc523 said:
So here’s my thought - I get the whole icons and non-commodity idea.
but why can’t they elevate the Escape product to a higher level to where it stands out above the crowd and thus isn’t a commodity?
the answer IMO, can’t be “slap Bronco or Mustang on every product” - at some point you dilute those brands and make them commodities by doing that too excessively.
I guess Farley wants to turn Ford into a Jeep and Tesla copy brand in some respects. Big risk IMO when you consider the Escape and Edge nameplates have been big part of Ford brand for last 20 years or so. And looks like Corsair will end up like Escape and Edge. Any replacements may get all new names which makes no sense. Ford has spent a lot of time and money building those nameplates.
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26 minutes ago, akirby said:
Exactly. They’re cutting out dealer inventory and price negotiations. Buyers have proven they’re willing to order non commodity vehicles at MSRP online.I think it's more like they have no choice...either order and wait months or buy preowned. Where did that term come from.....non commodity? How is a hybrid, plugin Escape pigeon holed as expendable. It's the only non full electric vehicle Ford makes that sips expensive gas other than Maverick hybrid. Ford can sell everyone at full price no problem.
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1 hour ago, akirby said:
Raptor buyers don’t care about the cost of gas. And where do you get 17 mpg? If you keep posting lies you’re going to get an extended vacation.
The Bronco Raptor averages 15 mpg and the twin turbo Bronco isn't a whole lot better. So yeah, the Bronco could use a hybrid of some kind like Wrangler, and who mentioned Ranger?
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I would think Ford is saving the Detroit Auto Show in Sept. for a big debut of something. I would think Mustang since it's built nearby. And maybe another product built along side Mustang.
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3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:
I've heard a few things about a hybrid Ranger, but absolutely nothing about Bronco.I have heard it in various articles....plug in hybrid to compete with Wrangler plugin. Common sense says $5 gas means 17mpg doesn't cut it anymore. The 15mpg Raptor is painful to hear.
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3 hours ago, bzcat said:
The midsize 2 row CUV market is not really a cost conscious segment in the US, which is why Ford is pivoting away from base FWD Edge. The market is trending towards bigger and better equipped models. If Ford was serious about replacing Edge with another ICE model, it should bring over Evos (and retain the Edge name for marketing of course). But basically, Ford has already decided Mach E is the replacement, at least as far as North America and Europe are concerned.
Farley recently said Ford is going full bore on hybrids. We do know that the BS goes hybrid in 2024MY and supposedly Bronco and Ranger go hybrid also with maybe Mustang. Look for more hybrid models ..... more than full electrics possibly.
Ford really hasn't proven yet that it can build more than 50,000 Mach Es, and half go to Europe. That is concerning since Ford can still build 150,000 Edges/year for N.A. I certainly would like to see a redesigned Hybrid Edge. It's the goldilocks segment for Ford....not too small a 2 row CUV, and not too big which is reflected in excellent sales volume. The Edge is a known good seller for Ford and deserved better.
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2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:
It's a long shot, but Ford is projecting significant mach-e sales in the coming years by stating that they want to sell about 200k mach-e's a year. Is it possible they're phasing out the edge to push more buyers into the presumably more profitable mach-e? I doubt it, the mach-e is obviously more expensive than the edge's starting price. But maybe ford is working on a more affordable version or something. The mach-e starts at 43k, the edge at about 37k, which was far more than I expected. I could see ford offering a new trim with cheaper interiors materials, and less tech that gets pretty close to the edge's starting price.
I don't think you will find a Mach E for under $60,000. First, 2022 MY is sold out and any dealer with any on lot wants big money over sticker. Ditto with Lightning....average guy in street won't be able to buy one at sticker for long time.
Meanwhile, not that hard to find a new Edge with modest incentives for joe blow. Big difference. Ditto with Ecosport....lots to choose from and incentives. But all good things come to an end.
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40 minutes ago, jpd80 said:
How do we know that?
Ford intends producing Explorer and BEV Explorer at two different sites.
Affordable is not bargain basement strippers, Ford left that perception behind a decade ago. A hybrid pickup for $20k is great value, too bad there’s no Maverick Utility but I understand why.
Farley and Ford are now all in on electric vehicles, his predecessor, Jim Hackett literally ripped the guts out of ICE funding by transferring $11 billion to BEV related products and infrastructure. You can’t do that without serious consequences and recently, Farley back that up with another $3 billion cut to Ford Blue.
These are maddening times, limited supply of chips encourages Ford to prioritise more profitable trim mixes, I think that’s a bigger issue to people seeking affordable vehicles because it destroys any chance of cash incentives seen a few short years ago.
I agree with most of what you said, but still when you see competitors month after month come out with redesigned or all new CUVs in all segments, Ford's lack of response other than ending strong brands like Edge is concerning. Have to wait and see what Ford has up its sleeve with Oakville, but sounds like lower volume, higher end vehicles so far.
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15 hours ago, jpd80 said:
Yeah, after I posted that, I realised that was not what I meant to say. More accurately, Ford looks to be positioning Explorer’s bottom two trim levels to compete with Edge SE and SEL. The base Explorer and XLT look to be extremely good value.
Ford Edge
SE starting at $37,145,
SEL starting at $38,945
ST-Line starting at $42,745
Titanium starting at $42,745
ST starting at $45,945
Ford Explorer
Explorer starting price is $33,745
XLT starting at $38,055
ST-Line starting at $45,245
Limited starting at $46,555
Timberline starting at $47,305
Trouble is....CR rates the Edge very high in reliability and most other ways. And gives its worse rating to Explorer. I'm not a big fan of CR, but sizable numbers are. And Explorer will not replace the volume sales Edge produces.
That is why Ford's lack of new vehicle reports are concerning. Ecosport and more importantly Edge leaving soon and no news on replacements. Maverick is virtually sold out for next couple years making Ford thin in more affordable segment compared to the Asian manufacturers.
Sorry, but Ford has to do better than Escape S in affordable CUV segment. Like it or not, Ford is still known as a more affordable brand.
Now if Ford just wants to be known as a truck/van company, then keep on doing what they are doing...mediocre rated CUVs, no sedans, and mum on any new products in those very competitive segments.
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56 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:
not worth waiting in that line to meI get fuel at Sam's Club and is almost always .20+ cheaper. Secret for me is getting there before 9 am as by 10 the lines are long. Have never waited more than 5 minutes if I get there early. Luckily Sam's Club is only about 15 minutes away. Costco is 90 minutes away and not viable. BJ's just opened a new store close by, but to me they are all the same. But competition is good.
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Latest report is that tire particulate from heavier full electric vehicles emits more pollution into the air than emissions from modern ICE engine. OUCH!
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22 hours ago, FreeFlow said:
It is a are sighting. Early days for Rivian. One in Rivian Blue, the other in Limestone.
I'm really starting to wonder how Rivian or Lucid can survive, especially with worsening supply chain problems. Both are burning through billions of dollars every quarter with no end in sight. Lucid just had to recall all their vehicles with significant wiring problems. If there were no supply problems, maybe a 50-50 shot at surviving. With supply problems and venture capital now drying up, far less than 50-50 IMO.
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41 minutes ago, Deanh said:
?....gonna have to enlighten me on this quote..." Grid resiliency may actually improve significantly once all those electric cars are plugged into the grid and can power your house"....so, as mentioned before...you charge a car that in turn powers your house...which depletes ITS battery which needs recharging....its parasitic not self sustaining...theres consumption...NOT replenishment. The rest I agree with, barring half of the country where wind and or solar isn't viable where natural gas and coal are a necessity...
Where is it not windy?
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1 hour ago, bzcat said:
Any debate about the grid that mentioned electric cars is basically being intellectually dishonest or lazy, or maybe both.
As I mention before, crypto currency mining is drawing more power from the grid now and will do so for a long time. Crypto power draw is constant 24/7 and it serves no purpose. Electric car will charge mostly when generating capacity is just wasted, and it serves a real purpose. And yet, the internet is full of fakenews article being pumped out by rightwing propaganda mills warning about how electric cars is going to collapse your gird.
Give. Me. A. F@@king. Break.
The grid in North America needs more resiliency. That is not in question. We need more short duration (under ~6 hours) storage capacity so we can time shift the consumption from all the surplus renewable power we are generating. And we need to upgrade and winter proof Texas' grid in particular because shifting weather pattern. Western wildfire and Northeast snow storms have always cause temporary problems but they now occur more frequently so yes, that's an issue but it's not inherently a grid problem - it is a weather problem - you know... the one that we are trying to solve by not burning any more fossil fuel! But we do not need a huge increase in generating capacity. We managed to handle crypto surge without building a single nuclear power plant. Why would we need to do that for electric cars which is projected to draw less power than crypto mining? Just think about it... what these rightwing fakenews mills are saying do not making any sense.
Just think how much power demands have increased in last 50 years. When I was a kid, we had one TV, not 4, a window A/C unit, no central air until 1974, no desktop computer until the 90's, no laptop until about same time, no smart phone until about 2009, and no tablet until a little later......all having to be charged up regularly. Most power tools like drills also have batteries that have to be charged even before we get to electric vehicles. Seems to me utility companies have kept up with increasing power demands no problem. Only problem seems to be extreme weather events and above ground power lines.
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2 hours ago, Deanh said:
???? Correct me if Im wrong ...but that's for backup in the form of diesel generators no?
You mean like Fukashima that is still uninhabitable. The back up diesel generators failed I believe.
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31 minutes ago, rperez817 said:
I don't think there's a debate, bzcat mentioned the following in the F-150 Lightning reveal thread.
The biggest crisis out West is wild fires and WATER or the lack of. Hard to live without potable water. The drought continues out there with no let up. Factor in record heat waves and adaptability is what is facing us. Many believe it's too late to do much about global warming....just learn to adapt and hope for the best. I'm in that camp. Either adapt or not survive. Lots of future migrations coming.
Ford CEO Jim Farley Indirectly Says Ford Escape Facing Cancellation
in Ford Motor Company Discussion Forum
Posted
When Ford can show that it can build and sell 300,000 Mach E's/month, then maybe it can replace Escape/Edge sales. Even then, the back seat of Mach E is on the tight side and cargo space is less than Escape and Edge. And Escape has a lot of powertrains to choose from.
Lots of talk on here about 2 row Explorer, but I have not seen anything concrete from Ford on that other than possible Fusion Active to compete against Outback. Seems to me Farley has decided to go full bore into EVs so that every Ford ICE vehicle is a dead man walking. Big risk unless solid state batteries can scale up big time.