Trader 10

I think the chances of this being a Focus or Escort type vehicle are zero. Farley has already said Ford is getting out of the 2 row “commodity” business because he says margins aren’t good enough. A Focus/Escort vehicle would be low margin. Ford ain’t doing any low cost BEVs - at least not this decade.

I think you’re right- the batteries are the issue. EVs are so much more expensive than ICE, I don’t think increased battery production will be enough to make them competitive. EVs are pigs. I don’t know how they become competitive until battery weight comes way down and that seems unlikely the next ten years.

Also Maverick.

Farley’s talking about limiting the number of EV models (top hats) to decrease costs. Japanese manufacturers (Toyota and Honda) haven’t been limiting the number of models offered.

I don’t think the increase in inventory can be attributed to sold vehicles in transit or arrived and not yet picked up by the buyer. If that was so, we’d see a large increase in Ford’s sales which isn’t occurring. Ford would like everyone to believe that nearly all sales are preordered but I think that is quickly becoming less so. I know my local dealer group’s website is showing 76 new Fords in their inventory. It only had 20 to 25 new vehicles listed during most of last year.

https://fordauthority.com/2023/01/new-lincoln-inventory-at-over-90-days-supply-in-december Ford had a more than 70 day inventory at the end of December- rebates coming back soon?

So what about the buyers who can’t afford new vehicles (most buyers) when the government removes all these used cars from the market?

To me, a huge obstacle for BEVs to overcome is cost. A 4 wheel drive extended range XLT Lightning is now more than $80K and exceeds $85 K with a few options. An all wheel drive extended range Mach E is more than $66K. Those prices put those vehicles out of reach for most of Ford’s traditional customers. The great majority of car/truck buyers will continue to buy ICE if they are less costly. I doubt Ford is making any money on BEVs even at these high prices. Maybe technology improves enough by the end of the decade to bring costs significantly lower, but that is far from a certainty. The risks to automakers of diverting too many resources to BEVs if cost, range, and charging issues are not resolved in the next 6 to 8 years are obvious.

Lightning is a very good truck, flawed by high purchase price, limited range, and slow charging times.

The early adopters buying first gen Mach E’s and Lightnings at prices that are big premiums compared to ICE models are probably going to take a big financial hit as better battery technology develops. There aren’t going to be many willing to buy these models when better batteries are available unless they buy the used BEV’s at big discounts.

Social media breeds outrage.

Yes it does. Those of course were necessary when people were sent home. The really harmful spending was the hundreds of billions to stimulate the economy and the green deal spending before the economy had a chance to recover from all the supply issues.

jdb not Jen.

The U.S. economy had been rolling along very well for 10 years with moderate growth, low inflation, and historically low interest rates until the fools in power decided it was a good idea to massively increase federal spending at a time when the economy was beginning to recover from the covid induced supply shortages. The massive green deal spending and the inflation reduction act (as if the way to reduce inflation was to increase spending by hundreds of billions of dollars) were the perfect way to insure inflation rates would increase and stick with us, which as jbd correctly points out, hits the poor disproportionately hard. Both of these spending disasters serve as examples of exactly what not to do.

Absolutely not! It’s up to the voters to educate themselves before the election regarding candidates and referendums. The election process is supposed to be fair and impartial. Would you be OK with one of the candidates on the ballot having an endorsement next to his/her name?

BEVs aren’t rocket science. No reason a company with Toyotas resources can’t be matching the competitions 2nd generation models by 2027.

Wow! I wonder how they ever got this on the ballot. Nothing like giving reasons to vote yes built into the referendum question. It should have ended after “revenue stream”. Only in Illinois…..

I think the biggest hurdle for the Lightning will be cost. Ford just announced another $5000 price increase for the Pro model - it now starts at $52K. An extended range XLT stickers at $81K! We’re not going to see mass adoption at those price levels.

The 2023 Super Duty is being introduced Sept 27. We should know then.

Still less than a similar sized Mach E.

No, this isn’t like emission controls 50 years ago. ICE vehicles will still be around for at least another 10 years - maybe more. Buyers will have a choice and trying to ram BEV’s down the throats of those who aren’t ready to buy them will be a losing proposition for any automaker that chooses to do so. It doesn’t matter if ICE development is mostly complete - Ford and the other automakers can continue to sell their ICE vehicles indefinitely if the market is there. Until the BEV issues of poor range, slow charging, and high cost are overcome, ICE vehicles will remain popular choices.

I certainly have no inside information, but believe that Ford is waiting to see how BEV demand develops before making additional product plans. I don’t think consumer acceptance of BEVs will be as rapid as some on this forum think. I believe a large percentage of new vehicle buyers (maybe as much as 50%) will continue to buy ICE as long as they are available. Ford can't risk losing these sales.

Borg has maintained that there won’t be a BEV Escape - at least not before very late in the decade at the earliest.

BS and Maverick both came out after covid related supply chain shortages began. Further, new vehicles selling at or above MSRP is currently the norm. My point is that comparisons between brand new models and the old vehicles they are replacing aren’t apples/apples as many try to infer.