DeluxeStang

There's been a lot of discussion about this in recent weeks and months, all the investments Ford's making in off-road products, and how they want to offer more of them. So I thought it would be fun to get a whole wishlist discussion going. I've included some of the stuff I would like to see, varying from super duties to the mustang raptor or off-road supercar (We don't know what it'll look like so I rendered both road going versions of t1, and lifted supercars to get some ideas, I prefer the lifted supercars over t1). Let me know what other off-road products you would like to see from Ford.

What kind of powertrains would you like a gas powered mustang SUV to have? Personally, I would like it if they mirror the coupe, and sedan. We know the coupe is probably gonna go hybrid at some point, it's inevitable, and it sounds like the sedan is gonna be the same deal. So with that in mind, a 2.3 and 5.0 hybrid would both be pretty neat. The 2.3 for more casual consumers, and the 5.0 for the all out hot rod. I don't know how well a hybrid AWD 5.0 would perform, but I'd imagine it would get pretty close to the 0-60 performance of the mach-e gt with better top end. My personal dream would be a new platform, either a revised cd6 or something different that the coupe, sedan, and crossover could all share.

Agreed, but where are we drawing the line on performance? I don't see Ford doing an EV like the model s plaid for instance where it's this insane vehicle with over 1000 hp that does 0-60 in under 2 seconds. We're not gonna get that from Ford. But it feels like CE1 is at least somewhat performance oriented. We know the truck is gonna do 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds or even faster if their claims about it being faster than a mustang Ecoboost hold true. That's not insanely fast by EV standards, but it's pretty peppy. It's possible CE1 could maybe dip into the low 4s, or high 3s for a performance sedan which would make it pretty comparable to a mach-e gt. I'll be curious to see what the performance ceiling is on it.

I think the massive price increase with the cybertruck killed most of the demand. Also the fact that it was a novelty vehicle, a rolling joke or meme so to speak. That kept people engaged at first, but didn't convert to actual orders. I also believe because the cyber truck is almost all novelty and very little actual substance, that doomed it. The gag was old by the time it came to market, and once you get past the initial shock, and jokes, there isn't much about it as a vehicle to win people over.

This is what I'm talking about. I won't deny for a second that trucks and SUVs are very popular, because they are. I just believe you're going to see smaller vehicles start to make a comeback, partially due to their lower prices, and partially because there's less need to have a large vehicle with a lot of cargo space if you know you're gonna have 1 or 2 kids instead of 5. It doesn't matter now because it's not like teens are buying new cars, but I've seen a lot of younger people sticking with sedans and hatchbacks even as they move to a new car purchase. So I don't believe they should be ignored provided Ford can appeal to affordable car buyers in a way that's profitable using CE1. I also believe aero and technical requirements are gonna start to push us back towards lower vehicles as well. Just look at CE1 and other affordable EVs. Farley has talked about how they couldn't turn a profit on gas powered sedans and hatchbacks, but how the really clean aero of a sedan/hatchback suits this affordable, small EV use case really well and makes a lot of sense. Aero is pushing us towards rooflines becoming lower, and sleeker, ride heights becoming lower, front areas being reduced, more emphasis on sleek design over boxy upright design. All to meet areo targets. I believe there are some cases where areo should be sacrificed slightly in favor of great design, like with bronco or mustang, the most important thing is that they look as good as possible, even if there's an aero penalty. But with these affordable EVs where it's all about reducing drag, I could see the boxier, more upright look being phased out over time. But we'll see.

Mach-e but even better looking. The mach-e is already a really good looking crossover. A next gen that was a little leaner, lower, wider would make for a striking vehicle.

Escort raptor GTD RS Power boost... Dark horse.

https://www.chasingcars.com.au/news/future-cars/ford-wants-to-build-raptor-t1-supercar-declaring-off-roaders-have-overtaken-mustang-and-hot-hatches-as-its-most-important-performance-vehicles/ Another article on this. I am curious to see what sort of product Farley is envisioning here when he talks about making an affordable aspirational enthusiast product that blends on and off-road performance in a way no-one has seen before. That kinda sounds like a mustang raptor, but I don't envision the mustang raptor as being a super affordable product. Whatever it is, it sounds intriguing. Other notes include the importance of keeping mustang alive, and their off-road supercar, which he says will "break all the rules" and they're working on figuring out the details right now, like what silhouette it'll have. I'm hopeful Ford's partnered with Hameedi Venturo on it, I've mentioned why I think there's a chance of that being the case in the past. If they are partnered with HV, this thing is gonna be awesome. A ground up super/hypercar with a hypercar silhouette with suspension tech that allows for substantial ride height variations sounds promising.

They have talked about doing that off-road supercar with potential raptor branding. I could also see maybe a super duty, bronco sport, or mustang raptor depending on how far they want to take it.

I think everything is being a little biased here, but I'm referencing the success of things like that maverick. 15 years ago, Ford would have told you there's no market for a compact, affordable truck in the N. American market. Were they lying or is that genuinely what they believed, that's up to you to decide, but that was what they were claiming. People didn't think a small, affordable truck would sell in high volume, even leading up to the Maverick's release I recall a considerable portion of people who were skeptical, and thought it would flop. Instead it became Ford's most successful release of the 2020s thus far imo. Because it's just a good product. It's not trying to be everything, it's just trying to be enough. It's not insanely powerful, it can't tow a lot of weight, it can't go off-road, but it doesn't have to in order to appeal to people. It's just a sensible, reliable, efficient, and affordable vehicle. We need to get away from this mindset of vehicles needing to be and do everything, and get back to what we actually need and use. As the maverick has proven, that often takes the form of smaller, more affordable vehicles, and that includes other categories like small crossovers and cars.

Thank you. That's what I'm getting at, I understand where Akirby and Sherm are coming from, but I'm arguing there are generational differences in terms of needs, preferences, taste, and so on. It's not a case of one side is right and the other is wrong, it's just different groups with different perspectives.

My argument is that what drove the sale of large trucks and SUVs was the rising need to have it all so to speak, the swiss army knife of vehicles. It was people with two kids buying an expedition because "What if I need the extra space someday" or people buying an f-150 in case they ever wanted to haul something, even if most of the time it was just used as a commuter car. My argument is that mentality is shifting. Vehicles like the maverick prove that more people are questioning why they're overbuying their vehicles, why they're buying these large, heavy, expensive vehicles when their only benefits are attributes that people hardly use. Something like a super duty really only pays off if one plans to tow really heavy things. Beyond that, there isn't much of a use case for them. They're terrible vehicles for commuting, they're terrible family vehicles due to how cumbersome they are. So a lot of people are looking at vehicles like that, and saying "A maverick can do basically anything my super duty can apart from towing, and I don't use it to tow really. So why don't I sell it and buy a truck that can still do basic truck stuff, but is a much better commuter vehicle, and more affordable?". You do see some hatchback and sedan customers buying mavericks. But as a maverick owner, and someone who's been on maverick forums, I can tell you there are a ton of maverick owners who came from larger trucks precisely for the reasons I mentioned. It's just a better vehicle for the actual use case of a lot of truck owners. But that points to a larger trend. That more affordable, and smaller vehicles are starting to make a comeback. You're seeing a shift in consumer priorities where an increasing number of buyers are questioning what they actually need, and rejecting what they think they need. I could see that ushering in a future where small and affordable vehicles start to make up a larger portion of the market again, and that includes things like sedans and hatchbacks.

But the used car market is also screwed right now.

I see where you're coming from, but I'd argue that mentality of overbuying is starting to shift. It used to be buying for every use case. For decades, it felt like buyers wanted more of everything, more space, more tech/, more power, more capability. But that led to cars becoming bloated, expensive nightmares in many respects. With where the car market is now, I believe you're seeing more people saying "What do I really need/use vs. What I think I'll need" and it's leading to more sensible purchases. A truck buyer who uses a truck to commute and only needs to haul a few pieces of furniture now and then is realize there's literally no need to own a super duty or f-150 when a maverick can do the same job and do it better. It used to be someone who only needed a sedan most days would buy a truck because they needed to haul a couch occasionally. Now I'd say it's started to revert back to someone just buying a decent sedan and borrowing/renting a truck for the few days a year where they need it. That doesn't apply to everyone, but it's becoming more common.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ford-rules-out-return-of-its-celebrated-hot-hatches Forgive the article title, it seems rather misleading. He's not saying Ford is walking away from doing affordable performance cars like hatchbacks, but rather that he doesn't want to be overly reliant on the past, and would like future affordable performance cars to blend on and off road performance. I'm kinda envisioning a modern take on an escort hatchback that performs well on and off road in rally fashion. Or something like that RS 200 concept if they made something like that and it was surprisingly affordable.