morgan20

Yea, when Ford offers a Bronco EV in the U.S. market (Bronco Lightning? Bronco Mach-E?) that may be our next new vehicle purchase. I doubt the Bronco New Energy from China will be imported to the U.S., so it's wait and see for now...

Video of the Bronco New Energy Global Premiere in Chengdu is below. It begins with an intro by a big shot from Ford China, Shan Ge. The head honcho himself makes an appearance at 5:13.

Didn't think about all that before reading your post. Biker16, would you say the influence of legacy automakers and oil companies is keepin' EV from growing faster in Europe too? Look at how EV market share has been doin' in Planet Europe, Planet America, and Planet Red China from 2010 to 2023:

The answer is not "EV mandates" or regulations in general in Planet Europe, Planet America, or Planet Red China

Wouldn't be surprised if Ford is next to announce somthin' like that for suppliers. The head honcho said the following on the Office Hours TV show and podcast this week: Speaking to "Office Hours," Farley warned that the US was also far too dependent on other countries, such as China, for vital materials like rare earths, which are used to manufacture advanced magnets that are critical to the auto industry. China imposed restrictions on imports of rare earths earlier this year amid the trade war with the US, sparking supply chain chaos at automakers and other manufacturers across the globe. "I don't think most Americans have any idea how scary our dependency is on certain countries," said Farley.

Yea, the big shot at MEMA The Vehicle Suppliers Association suggested that it'll probably be a decade or two or three “In some cases this has been 20 or 30 years in the making, and we’re trying to undo it in a few years. It’s not going to happen that fast.”

Yea, I like private free markets as much as the other guy but government policies like you described are in place in Europe and the U.S. too, it ain’t only them Chinese Commies. And as the American automaker big shots said at the conference, government policies alone aren’t going to save the car industry. Contrary to what the Jen Meiners dude said in the article, government policies alone aren’t going to kill the car industry either. That applies to Europe, America, and Red China.

A bunch of U.S. auto industry big shots got together at a SAE Detroit Section conference last year and arrived at many of the same conclusions as you did. See attached document for a summary. IMO much of what's in that document is relevant to European automakers as well. "Government policies alone are not going to save the automotive industry. There are significant changes it needs to make itself if it is to make a successful transition to selling more electric vehicles and be able to compete with the Chinese automotive industry." "One traditional supplier, working collaboratively with a Chinese OEM, was surprised at how fast it completed the project. One reason things went so quickly was that the Chinese automaker provided it with only 50 pages of specifications compared to the 4,000 pages it can get from traditional automakers. Chinese OEMs are better at telling suppliers how they want a component to perform and letting them figure out how to achieve it, instead of trying to dictate all the steps a supplier must follow." "The Chinese do not worry if their early design is not perfect, they just try to get it to work, and then they begin optimizing it with an eye to getting it into production quickly. They also continue to make improvements after a vehicle is in production.Their on-going design changes can also be used to reduce cost and introduce modern technology more quickly." 24-GLC-White-Paper.pdf

Yea, it's all that and more. There's a lot of customer trust with Ford pickup trucks, the big shots need to get new CE1 based pickup trucks to market with speed and quality, and also apply the lessons from that project to keep F-150 Lightning in a strong position as well. BizTech Weekly said, Ford’s reorganization—publicly isolating Model E and embracing short-term losses—signals a willingness to confront the industry’s most brutal phase of creative destruction since the postwar consolidation era. The challenge is not merely to match Tesla or BYD on cost and speed, but to master the integration of electronics, chemistry, and software while preserving the trust embedded in its brand. The next decade will reward those who can translate architectural insight into cost-competitive, software-rich vehicles that resonate with both consumers and regulators. For Ford, the path ahead is perilous but clear: embrace radical reinvention, or risk relegation to the margins of a market it once defined. The auto industry’s value chain has inverted; only those who adapt with equal speed and conviction will shape its future.

Yea, exactly. Sure, the Commies act like Commies in Red China. But the bottom line is what you mentioned: Chinese EV tech is world-class. Americans and Europeans can complain all we want about "subsidized by the CCP", but that ain't going to do jack shit to dent China's technological lead. No tariff, export/import ban, or any other government action will prevent them Chinese from delivering products and services that fulfill American and European EV customer desires. If European and American automakers are to clinch those customers, there's no substitute for innovation and great design. Ford's head honcho said about competition from BYD for example, The only way we can beat it was with innovation

Yea, the business case may be tough, but that doesn't mean that Large Retail Oriented EVs Aren't Viable. The solution for Ford is to get the price of those large EVs down so that retail customers don't have to pay any premium. My 2022 F-150 Lightning was priced around $40k. An equivalent 2025 model is closer to $50k. There's no reason that improved production processes and supply chain management combined with the declining prices for lithium ion batteries can't make the $40k price point a reality again. Ford's skunkworks has already been workin' on this. An engineering magazine mentioned this:

Hey Jimbo, new EV models - from Universal EV Platform and otherwise - can't come soon enough. That article tells us what we already know: Ford's U.S. EV product lineup has been stagnant since 2022 Ford's own slice of the EV market has declined rapidly since 2022 as well - going from 28.42 percent in Q2 of that year to 13.48 percent in the same period this year - largely because of the fact that it only sells three such models in the U.S. at the moment, and they're all first-generation products that aren't slated to be updated anytime soon.

Yea, more often than not internal politics within car companies, not external politics involving civil government, is the root cause of that uncertainty. If F-150 Lightning gets canceled it will be because of corporate dysfunction within Ford that incentivizes short-term thinking as Biker16 mentioned earlier.

Yea, longterm solution consists of new processes and technologies that bring down the cost of design, development, testing, materials, and assembly. That's something the Ford skunkworks is tryin' to achieve with things like the Ford Universal EV Production System, and can apply to EV of any form factor small medium and large.