Do We Want Socialized Medicine?

[Savetheplanet]

Very nice breakdown on our health care in this country Swenson!! All of your post's in this thread are right on the money.

[fmccap]

And then there's Medicare/Medicaid, which are already government healthcare programs. You healthcare plan that you already have helps pay for those that don't have healthcare through the premiums, so what's the difference if you send that money to Uncle Sam or Harvard Pilgrim?

What does Uncle Sam use our money wisely for?????????????????????????????????

It'll end up a basket of IOU's like Social Security and whatever lobbyist lines politicians pockets the most will become rich.

[fmccap]

Very nice breakdown on our health care in this country Swenson!! All of your post's in this thread are right on the money.

Right on the money? Tell me if this would be right on the money.

 

I say we keep our own money, then we can have our own choices on what we want.

 

If you have kids do you want the best education for them? There are bad schools in this country. Now you want to send them to a private school that you have to pay for. I say that's wrong. You say that's my choice I made. Right? Tell me why I don't have the choice to keep my money thats going to waste then???????????

[swenson88]

Right on the money? Tell me if this would be right on the money.

 

I say we keep our own money, then we can have our own choices on what we want.

 

If you have kids do you want the best education for them? There are bad schools in this country. Now you want to send them to a private school that you have to pay for. I say that's wrong. You say that's my choice I made. Right? Tell me why I don't have the choice to keep my money thats going to waste then???????????

 

 

Jesus, now you want to get rid of public school, too? We already have the "dumbest" kids compared to most other civilized nations, you think we'd somehow improve that by killing public education? Why is everyone so afraid to do what works in every other country? Is it some "not invented here" syndrome? Did you ever think it's in our nation's best interest to have everyone educated AND everyone healthy? What am I missing here? Like it or not the government is there to look out for every one of its citizens because, let's face it, many of us do a shit job of looking out for ourselves.

My parents sent me to private school and they paid their taxes just like everyone else. My mother was also a public high school teacher for years, still a college professor now. She knows she was essentially paying for our schooling twice, but you know what? That was her choice. She values education for EVERYBODY. She's fine with knowing that her tax money is going to help other kids at least get an education. It's bad enough how much school budgets get slashed every year, you think getting rid of public funding would help??? For a country that loves to praise its Christian morals it seems that so many are so intent on only looking out for themselves and letting everyone else suffer. The big picture, folks. The big picture.

[wallflower]

Jesus, now you want to get rid of public school, too? We already have the "dumbest" kids compared to most other civilized nations, you think we'd somehow improve that by killing public education? Why is everyone so afraid to do what works in every other country? Is it some "not invented here" syndrome? Did you ever think it's in our nation's best interest to have everyone educated AND everyone healthy? What am I missing here? Like it or not the government is there to look out for every one of its citizens because, let's face it, many of us do a shit job of looking out for ourselves.

My parents sent me to private school and they paid their taxes just like everyone else. My mother was also a public high school teacher for years, still a college professor now. She knows she was essentially paying for our schooling twice, but you know what? That was her choice. She values education for EVERYBODY. She's fine with knowing that her tax money is going to help other kids at least get an education. It's bad enough how much school budgets get slashed every year, you think getting rid of public funding would help??? For a country that loves to praise its Christian morals it seems that so many are so intent on only looking out for themselves and letting everyone else suffer. The big picture, folks. The big picture.

It doesn't matter how much money you throw at public schools. You are going to get the same result. The NEA is probably stronger than any other union regarding job security. Private schools work off of performance. True, the parenting in the private schools is typically stronger, but schools are no different than any other publicly run entity. The private sector will do it cheaper, faster and better.

[Bluecon]

Jesus, now you want to get rid of public school, too? We already have the "dumbest" kids compared to most other civilized nations, you think we'd somehow improve that by killing public education?

The reason the kids are poorly educated is because the government runs the school system and forces everyone to use it. Socialised school system is what it is.

[fmccap]

We already have the "dumbest" kids compared to most other civilized nations, you think we'd somehow improve that by killing public education?

Don't you think that you answered your own question????????????????????????????

It keeps getting worse decade after decade. DUMB AMERICA, Are you starting to see it show?

Try taking a look at how the budgets work and how they fool you. Simple terms let's say that this year they spend 100 dollars on P.E. Next year they estimate that they need 200 dollars for P.E. The budget ends up giving 150 dollars to education. They tell you that education was cut 25%.

You tell me that we have the "dumbest kids" compared to other nations. Every year we drop. Then in the same sentence you say to leave it alone or put more money into it.

 

Tell me why you would put more money and not slash some in a failing program???????????????????? It's proven, you just said it.

[fmccap]

She's fine with knowing that her tax money is going to help other kids at least get an education.

Is she really fine considering it produces the

"dumbest" kids compared to most other civilized nations

.??????????????????????????????????????????????//

[fmccap]

Nonsense Ideas

According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, some 43,443 people were killed on the nation's highways in 2005. If Congress were to enact a 10 miles per hour national speed limit, we'd save thousands of lives each year. You say, "Williams, that would be stupid and impractical!" My response to you is: But look at all the lives that would be saved. What you really mean by stupid and impractical is that preventing thousands of highway fatalities is not worth the cost and inconvenience that would result from having to poke along at 10 miles per hour. Of course, calling a 10 miles per hour law stupid and impractical is a more socially acceptable way of saying those saved lives aren't worth it.

How about academics and researchers seeing grinding Third World poverty and chalking it up to a "vicious cycle of poverty"? This vision of poverty sees people as too poor to save. That means they can't create investment capital. Because they can't invest, they can't develop, and that keeps them poor. In other words, people are poor because they're poor.

According to the "vicious cycle of poverty" vision, the only escape is foreign aid. The only way this theory of Third World poverty would have any credibility is if every country were poor. There's no country that wasn't at some time poor, including our own. If poverty is so vicious, how did today's rich countries escape it?

[Trimdingman]

No matter how much money the government throws at education, the school boards and universities will find a way to spend it without improving education, and tuition fees will continue to rise. What is needed is competition and minimum standards. In Ontario, it costs taxpayers over $7,000 to "educate" one kid for one year. I am sure that the private sector could do it for less than half that. That would be $40,000 per kid over a period of 12 years. At 5% interest amortized over 20 years, that would be less than $300 per month per child. Who do you think should pay it? If the government stopped giving money to universities, they would still charge what the market would bear, and the only change would be in their profits.

[unionj]

I'm surprised you didn't whine about Norfolk closing !!!

Is that a personal attack? Did you not learn your lesson yet?

[unionj]

Are you not getting it? You DO pay for those people's healthcare right now. Hospitals are mandated to treat EVERYONE, regardless of their ability to pay. It's not like people without healthcare don't get sick, don't get in car accidents, or don't require operations. They do, and the hospital absorbs the bill, and then adds the difference to the bills of everyone that CAN pay. And then there's Medicare/Medicaid, which are already government healthcare programs. You healthcare plan that you already have helps pay for those that don't have healthcare through the premiums, so what's the difference if you send that money to Uncle Sam or Harvard Pilgrim? You're still paying for them, that's how it works. We don't live in the jungle where if you can't hunt your food you don't eat. We live in a civilized nation. Jeez, and how many of you are Christian, too? You think old JC would be pissed because some of his money was helping the less fortunate? Not everyone that doesn't have healthcare is an indigent drug abuser or crackwhore. Many of those without healthcare are hard-working, blue-collar individuals that are earning just enough to scrape by and don't receive health insurance from their jobs. they're probably working harder than most of us every day of the week. Yes, there's bad apples, but to let the good apples suffer because we're mad at the bad apples doesn't make sense either. Like I said, a basic, minimal national healthcare system is NECESSARY for this country, then everyone whining here can still get their own private above-and-beyond plan to separate themselves from those poor lowlifes.

Before I had an employer that provided health care I could afford I had two wonderful children born without insurance. Guess who paid? I did, not you or anyone else, me. Do not feed me that horse shit because it matters who you are as to whether they make you pay or not. I was earning $11 an hour and paid the hospital each month for 2 years. It was an easy decision, pay freely or have your check garnished.

[unionj]

The reason the kids are poorly educated is because the government runs the school system and forces everyone to use it. Socialised school system is what it is.

The reason kids do not learn and our education system sucks is due to the fact that the parents and kids run the schools not the teachers.

[triton-boy]

POLITICS ASIDE......iam 50 something live in canada raised a family and now am enjoying my grandkids.life is a 50-50 shoot you can live to 100......80.....40 etc....you dont know whats in the cards.but...........ive been lucky thank GOD.. have had no problems yet.........socialized medicine is not perfect its slow but..............i dont have to work for life to know iam covered,its there and it doesnt bankrupt me to achieve it.its thru taxes but not hi-way-robbery prices..yea if you got bucks in the states your odds in the states with both of us with the same diesease are better but....if you dont have coverage over there then the table turns.we all are going to die one day but you also have to enjoy life and not follow into the hpo agenda-s that scare you to death and you work and live in fear..all iam saying is not that bad.england has got it canada does too its not perfect but the american way is called the haves and the have nots.........in my opinion the socialized way is better for the common man and not the business agenda...........

[Imawhosure]

People who want socialized medicine can want it all they want, but any intelligent person is going to vote against that candidate trying to institute it UNLESS they fix the system that has failed first.

 

Remember when they had exposes' on government defense spending where they were paying 150 bucks for a hammer?

 

There in lies the problem!!!!!! Nobody I know is diametrically opposed to national healthcare perse, they are opposed to turning it over to the government........or anyone else for that matter, UNTIL THE SYSTEM OF OVER CHARGING, LARGESS, and all around IDIOCY IS FIXED!

 

The government, full of lawyers, is the hold up on fixing alot of it. They have great suits against the medical industry, of which they get 1/4 to 1/3 if they win, and if they get voted out of office, where they gonna make enough cash for their Mercedes if they vote to stop the nonsense while in power?

 

I am not going to say you are UnAmerican for wanting National Healthcare instituted; but I will say you are a lazy American if you want to turn over another broken system in this country, to a government known for no efficiency and overspending who will no doubt break it further, instead of demanding they fix the problem BEFORE trying to saddle everyone with paying far more than they should be, just cause you and your ilk were to disinterested to put your voice with ours and demand THEY FIX IT before attempting it to start with!!!!

 

Throwing money at a problem is not synonomous with fixing it ya know!!!! Just ask people who have won the lottery, then 3 or 4 years down the road are broke!!!

[oldasdirt]

ONLY THE STRONGEST SURVIVE,Gods law-not mine.Why should we go against him?Clear the gene pool of the wreched and sick.

[Trimdingman]

If Ford can overhaul and streamline their operations, why can't health care and education? With all of the advances and modern procedures in medecine, we should see dramatic reductions in costs to patients. It should now be affordable like buying anything else. Instead, we have blackmail. You pay what thay say, or you die. Immigrant doctors are prevented from practicing in Canada, because they may upset the system of greed. Personally, I have opted out of health care. I believe that I have a better chance of living longer if I stay away from doctors. I still pay for it though through exhorbitant taxes.

 

As for education; the way children are educated hasn't changed much structurally in over a hundred years, despite advances in technology. Send children to school up to age 13, which is the legal age when they no longer require adult supervision. They would be on two shifts; 7:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon, and 12:00 noon to 5:00 p.m. That way, we could get rid of half of the elementary schools. As for high school and university, they would not go to school, but watch lectures by the best teachers and professors on DVDs. All possible questions and answers would be included, and the DVD could be re-played over and over. They would attend school one evening per week to submit homework, and to write tests. This would be done in the same buildings where the elementary school children go. During the day, they could have jobs, and work full or part-time, or do whatever. All high schools and universities could be closed, and there would be little or no need for textbooks, libraries, or school buses. There would be virtually no more weapons brought to school, school massacres, fatal school bus crashes, molestations by teachers, etc. We would just need gymnasiums and laboratories. There is also the internet. If you want to know something, you can find it there. You no longer need to have a lot of facts stored in your brain. The brain is better used analysing and processing information, not just parroting it.

 

Just like Ford is now cutting costs, we could save countless billions in taxes if we started using the tools that we already possess.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Trimdingman

[ebritt]

Yeah.....I want the guys who totally f---ed up Social Security to run my healthcare too.

[swenson88]

Yeah.....I want the guys who totally f---ed up Social Security to run my healthcare too.

 

How'd they f it up? They're the ones who invented it. It was never a perfect system to begin with. If anything you can blame the fact that people are living too damn long and using all the SS money up, so I guess we really would be better off without healthcare, huh?

[unionj]

How'd they f it up? They're the ones who invented it. It was never a perfect system to begin with. If anything you can blame the fact that people are living too damn long and using all the SS money up, so I guess we really would be better off without healthcare, huh?

WRONG! We collect more in SS than is paid out. The problem is doing what Ronald Reagan said and did, Leave it alone. No one since him has been able to do that though, filter a bit here, divert a bit there etc etc.

Edited February 26, 2007 by unionj

[fmccap]

Is she really fine considering it produces the .??????????????????????????????????????????????//

swenson88???

[sprinter]

As for education; the way children are educated hasn't changed much structurally in over a hundred years, despite advances in technology. Send children to school up to age 13, which is the legal age when they no longer require adult supervision. They would be on two shifts; 7:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon, and 12:00 noon to 5:00 p.m. That way, we could get rid of half of the elementary schools. As for high school and university, they would not go to school, but watch lectures by the best teachers and professors on DVDs. All possible questions and answers would be included, and the DVD could be re-played over and over. They would attend school one evening per week to submit homework, and to write tests. This would be done in the same buildings where the elementary school children go. During the day, they could have jobs, and work full or part-time, or do whatever. All high schools and universities could be closed, and there would be little or no need for textbooks, libraries, or school buses. There would be virtually no more weapons brought to school, school massacres, fatal school bus crashes, molestations by teachers, etc. We would just need gymnasiums and laboratories. There is also the internet. If you want to know something, you can find it there. You no longer need to have a lot of facts stored in your brain. The brain is better used analysing and processing information, not just parroting it.

 

Just like Ford is now cutting costs, we could save countless billions in taxes if we started using the tools that we already possess.

 

 

What kind of crack do you smoke up there in canada trim?

[ebritt]

How'd they f it up? They're the ones who invented it. It was never a perfect system to begin with. If anything you can blame the fact that people are living too damn long and using all the SS money up, so I guess we really would be better off without healthcare, huh?

You dont have a clue do you? Originally all SS money was put into it's own account, the dems took it out and put it into the general fund and spent it on everything faster than it came in. That is called deficit spending. All that's there now is an I.O.U.. Government health care would be no better, in fatc worse because they would hang it over our heads to give themsleves more power.

If you want it so badly , just move to Canada and leave our shit alone.

Edited February 26, 2007 by ebritt

[Bowie]

ONLY THE STRONGEST SURVIVE,Gods law-not mine.Why should we go against him?Clear the gene pool of the wreched and sick.

 

If that's how you really feel then maybe the clearing that you speak of should start with you!With views like this you are obviously wretched & sick!!! It's subhumans like you that were respnsible for the Holocaust!!! And the Holocaust continues all over the world even now. And as far as God's law being "Only the strong survive".I'd be interested in knowing where in the Bible you found this passage.The Bible does however say that the meek shall inherit the world.

[Imawhosure]

You dont have a clue do you? Originally all SS money was put into it's own account, the dems took it out and put it into the general fund and spent it on everything faster than it came in. That is called deficit spending.

 

 

Ebritt is exactly correct. Originally the idea was to hold the money, not spend it on everything else but what it was intended for.

 

What government does is throw everything into the general fund, then turns around and when it comes up short, tells YOU it is your favorite programs that need more money so as you will accept the rise in taxes.

 

HERE IS AN ANOLOGY HOW YOUR GOVERNMENT DOES IT SO YOU WILL DO WHAT THEY WANT-------->I have you come room with me in my house, and tell you your half of the bills is 1000 bucks a month, this includes rent, food, utilities, and beer.

 

I take the 1000 bucks, and decide that I want everyone who comes over to like us, so instead of buying a case of beer a week, I buy 10.........and some Crown Royal too!!! Of course, I am now short of cash for the rest of everything else!!!!!!

 

So what do I do, hmmmmmmm. Why I say I miscalculated and the bills have risen, and unless you give me an extra 100 bucks every month, we are gonna starve. Well, you want that food, and so you pay!!!!! In fact, you insist everyone in the house is gonna starve, so you try and get them to kick some in too.

 

Notice in the example, you did not even look where the money went when I spent it, you are just worried about getting fed, and since there is no money to feed you, you automatically assume the food budget came up short.

 

This is how they do it, this is why National Healthcare might be wonderful; but they will fleece you unless you GET THEM UNDER CONTROL.

 

This is also why tax and spenders from both partys do NOT want you to be able to invest ANY part of your social security payments, cause that means they can't throw it into the general fund and SPEND it. Fidelity nor Vanguard is going to take a government IOU and invest it, they want CASH. All it is in reality is a ponzi scheme that they are perpetrating upon YOU the TAXPAYER.

 

And you want to turn another 1/2 a trillion; give or take a few hundred BILLION per year over to these people???? Silly, silly, silly.

 

Let us all get together and demand a fix, then lets sit down and talk about your desires. We can work together, but first we gotta get BOTH partys under OUR control, instead of US being under theirs!!!!!