Does Ford actually expect the Flex to be a success???

[campbell53]

I'm glad it brings emotion....all big sellers do one way or another. It certainly won't be immediately forgotten like the 500. Love it or hate it...it is coming to a dealer near you!

[DCK]

I can say with all certainty that I won't be one of the 100 thousand or so a year customers for this Flex. The thing is plain ugly to me. A stretch Scion XB.

I agree with the Xb mention. It looks exactly like a giant Xb. The Gesture lines are completely alike.

 

 

This looks awesome:

 

 

I don't think the production flex looks bad. Though I think Horbury and everyone at Ford who said the fairlane and production are identical need to get their heads examined. Horbury even said that when the concept and production were side by side some people at Ford couldn't even tell the difference.......................So I was pretty shocked at how different they really are.

 

 

They just squashed the front end and put a car like bumper on it and IMO exactly like the Xb. If we weren't treated to the concept before hand then maybe I'd like it much more. I'd thought for 2009 Ford cold have made the vehicle look much more like the 4 year old concept.

 

 

The interior is awesome though.

[igor]

^^What Horbury said is that people who do not know the exact details of the concept would not be able to tell the difference... he did say that side by side the differences are obvious though .. the car does not even share the proportions anymore since it is on a completely different platform ...

 

I agree thought .. I liked the concept headlights .. the production ones still leave me uneasy for some reason ..

 

Igor

[Mark B. Morrow]

For those that are forgetful or unaware, we had several years where we sold 275,000+ Windstars. 80 an hour, running 2 10-hour shifts. One can only hope the Flex will be half that "unsuccessful".

Tooling is going in as we speak...

 

 

OOPS! I meant to say Freestar. I do remember that there were a few years when the Windstar was reviewed as superior to even the Caravan and was a hot seller. I think Chrysler got the jump when they beat Ford to the introduction of the driver's side slider. I still see a surprising number of Windstars on the road in Pittsburgh along with many first gen Taurus and Sables

[TomServo92]

I hope I am. But I also hope you are wrong with Flex buyers being former Expy and Explorer customers.At least not the bulk of them anyway.If Ford plans on stopping Expy and Nav prod. then its a good thing.

 

I'm betting that a good number of Explorer/Expedition owners that don't need to tow will dumping them pretty quick. The Flex is good alternative since it's nearly as big.

[jwillum]

I hope it is a success. I am not completely sold on the styling but my wife would not be caught dead driving a minivan (and neither would I for that matter). Right now, she is driving a Freestyle because it gets better mileage than the Mountaineer we had before. I read posts in this thread about gas prices killing it but I couldn't disagree more. People forget that there will always be a need for large vehicles. I don't want to cram the whole family and our luggage in something the size of a Fusion and go on vacation. I remember once when I was a kid when we went out to eat with our neighbors. (This would have been around 1980.) We all piled in my dad's Mercury station wagon and off we went. (Remember when it was ok to just pile the kids in the back of a wagon?) Our neighbor worked for Chrysler and he commented that he was concerned about their push to smaller cars because there would always be a need for a large vehicle. I guess Chrysler agreed since the minivan followed a few years later.

 

I drive a 2007 Sport Trac and use it primarily for going back and forth to work. Do I need a vehicle that size? Nope. Do I like it? Yep. Does it bother me when I stop to fill the tank? Nope.

[atomcat68]

If Ford for any reason doesn't expect it to be a success, then someone didn't do their job and make it the best product it should be.

 

From what I see this is a great leap for Ford and they should expect great things from this.

[Sherminator98]

I'm betting that a good number of Explorer/Expedition owners that don't need to tow will dumping them pretty quick. The Flex is good alternative since it's nearly as big.

 

 

According to the Det News article, many people are moving over to Edges now....

[BORG]

Flex is a gamble and will likely be a flash-in-the-pan trend if it does take off. Ford has struggled to make the Freestyle/Tuarus X work so I think Ford has the packaging wrong for this type of CUV. Ford has had a hard time making the D3 products hit their target volume, I'm curious if Flex will. I think Ford can make the gamble as long as they continue to service Taurus X since that is the traditional Soccer Mom/White Bread option. The Flex is definitely not everybody's taste but I think Ford can't afford not to gamble.

[RichardJensen]

"I think Ford has the packaging wrong for this type of CUV"

 

Yeah, because the Flex and Taurus X have the SAME packaging. Why, I doubt that people will be able to tell them apart once they're in the showrooms.

[BORG]

"I think Ford has the packaging wrong for this type of CUV"

 

Yeah, because the Flex and Taurus X have the SAME packaging. Why, I doubt that people will be able to tell them apart once they're in the showrooms.

 

The seating capacity/configuration, ride height, cargo space, etc... is the same.

[suv_guy_19]

The seating capacity/configuration, ride height, cargo space, etc... is the same.

 

 

But the're not the same vehice...they look different, have different interiors, have different features, will havve different power from thei engines...theyr'e not really the same.

[donzuchowski]

I hope I am. But I also hope you are wrong with Flex buyers being former Expy and Explorer customers.At least not the bulk of them anyway.If Ford plans on stopping Expy and Nav prod. then its a good thing. Someone mentioned the Flex being around 4500#. Isnt that close to the Edge weight ?? Ford has not shown a good track record with "evolving" their product.(ie., Taurus, Ranger, Expedition,) So Flex may very well get their 100-140 1st full year. But I dont think enough image conscious people will keep the volumes up. At least they could have kept the suicide drs. As far as a minvan replcement, we'll see if a $40K 4 dr. SUV (oops CUV) will be "Flex"ible enough to get many $26-30,000 players.

 

Of course Ford wants the Flex to be a hot otherwise why would they name it the Flex with and option package called Funk Master?

[mooseman]

Well, I know a few non-domestic loving car guys who are pretty intrgiued by the Flex, as am I. I own a Bimmer and a Volvo and find the Flex to be, though not perfect, well designed with useful technology that I actually need in a family car. I find minivans horribly unappealing. My biggest problem with the Flex is that its not here sooner.

 

I for the life of me can't figure out why Ford is moving so slowly across the board. GM is making fast sweeping aggressive changes, especially with dying brands like Satirn, and Ford seems rather unhurried and lost.

 

Apart from the Flex, I've been as disappointed with Ford in this car show season as last season. B-Cars? Diesels? Fusion Hybrid? Is Ford even interested in competing? From the looks of the Escape's drivetrain it doesn't seem so. Same 15 year old Duratec 30 with a 4-speed? The gawdawful Focus mismash of styling cues and clumsiness? Arrrgh.

 

Ranger? New F150? None of it. Just vinyl stripes, paint jobs, and trims bits and badges.

 

Mazda is doing well. Aston WAS kicking ass 'til they decided to sell'em. Volvo looks good, even Land Rover seems well placed. So, I know there are SOME people in managment who have half a clue, but they don't seem to work at Ford proper.

 

Anyhow, I'm all for buying a Ford Flex, and would own one right now if Ford actually wasn't gonna make me wait 15 more months. Who knows what the comeptition will have out by then. So, that 15 month wait might lose them one more potential customer. And with supposed 24 month development time that Ford supposedly cut their cycles down to, it makes me wonder when they actually decided to build it.

[suv_guy_19]

Well, I know a few non-domestic loving car guys who are pretty intrgiued by the Flex, as am I. I own a Bimmer and a Volvo and find the Flex to be, though not perfect, well designed with useful technology that I actually need in a family car. I find minivans horribly unappealing. My biggest problem with the Flex is that its not here sooner.

 

I for the life of me can't figure out why Ford is moving so slowly across the board. GM is making fast sweeping aggressive changes, especially with dying brands like Satirn, and Ford seems rather unhurried and lost.

 

Apart from the Flex, I've been as disappointed with Ford in this car show season as last season. B-Cars? Diesels? Fusion Hybrid? Is Ford even interested in competing? From the looks of the Escape's drivetrain it doesn't seem so. Same 15 year old Duratec 30 with a 4-speed? The gawdawful Focus mismash of styling cues and clumsiness? Arrrgh.

 

Ranger? New F150? None of it. Just vinyl stripes, paint jobs, and trims bits and badges.

 

Mazda is doing well. Aston WAS kicking ass 'til they decided to sell'em. Volvo looks good, even Land Rover seems well placed. So, I know there are SOME people in managment who have half a clue, but they don't seem to work at Ford proper.

 

Anyhow, I'm all for buying a Ford Flex, and would own one right now if Ford actually wasn't gonna make me wait 15 more months. Who knows what the comeptition will have out by then. So, that 15 month wait might lose them one more potential customer. And with supposed 24 month development time that Ford supposedly cut their cycles down to, it makes me wonder when they actually decided to build it.

 

Gm hasn't really changed...they just brought out new products...and most of them aren't new...Ford is doing things completely dfferent tnah they used ...the flex has ot been a go for very long and there is probably still a great deal to do in development...A year goes by fast...many of the things you listed will be here within the next few years...and the F-150 is still not very old...aston was not essential to Ford's turnaround....and you have to realize that you are pointing out only the negative...what about the fusion...the edge..the changes to the big cars....the upcoming products that are upcoming....it takes time.

[igor]

Since it will be based on the D3 you also have to consider it will be AWD capable. This will make it more appealing than many other FWD only models of the competition.

Unless the Kia and Honda are FWD only, there is no competition without AWD. AWD in this segment is quite a requirement.

 

Igor

[igor]

The seating capacity/configuration, ride height, cargo space, etc... is the same.

the Flex is 4 inches wider and 6 inches longer .. that is about as much difference as between Expy and Explorer ...

 

there is your difference...

 

Ford will for now have stratification in both their 5passanger and 7passanger crossovers.

 

If you want practical cheap transportation you can get Escape or the Taurus X .. if you want more style and luxury, you pay up for the Edge or the Flex ..

 

This way Ford can undercut the price of the bottom end competition, yet not lose the "I want it all" crowd that usually goes with the imports.

 

There is no telling whether this organization will remain though .. Escape might move to a smaller package in the next gen (Focus based) etc .. we do not know yet.

 

Igor

[igor]

Well, I know a few non-domestic loving car guys who are pretty intrgiued by the Flex, as am I. I own a Bimmer and a Volvo and find the Flex to be, though not perfect, well designed with useful technology that I actually need in a family car. I find minivans horribly unappealing. My biggest problem with the Flex is that its not here sooner.

 

I for the life of me can't figure out why Ford is moving so slowly across the board. GM is making fast sweeping aggressive changes, especially with dying brands like Satirn, and Ford seems rather unhurried and lost.

 

Apart from the Flex, I've been as disappointed with Ford in this car show season as last season. B-Cars? Diesels? Fusion Hybrid? Is Ford even interested in competing? From the looks of the Escape's drivetrain it doesn't seem so. Same 15 year old Duratec 30 with a 4-speed? The gawdawful Focus mismash of styling cues and clumsiness? Arrrgh.

 

Ranger? New F150? None of it. Just vinyl stripes, paint jobs, and trims bits and badges.

 

Mazda is doing well. Aston WAS kicking ass 'til they decided to sell'em. Volvo looks good, even Land Rover seems well placed. So, I know there are SOME people in managment who have half a clue, but they don't seem to work at Ford proper.

 

Anyhow, I'm all for buying a Ford Flex, and would own one right now if Ford actually wasn't gonna make me wait 15 more months. Who knows what the comeptition will have out by then. So, that 15 month wait might lose them one more potential customer. And with supposed 24 month development time that Ford supposedly cut their cycles down to, it makes me wonder when they actually decided to build it.

Moseman - keep in mind, GM started their true turnaround in 2002 when Lutz and Wagoner took over .. Ford started last year - GM ahs been prepping for this year for past 4 years .. Ford just started .. but even from that position Ford is moving quicker than GM .. and a lot of GM fans are taking notice ... For example Ford will fuse the Fusion and Mondeo onto a new global platform before Gm will have AWD capable midsize out.

 

Ford will likely have a competitive B-car and C-car out before Gm replace their utterly mediocre Cobalt and Aveo. And while the Vue is very nice, we will see a brand new Escape before GM replaces the Torrent and Equinox.

 

Gm is not out of the woods .. they progressed very well, moving from subpar to mediocre, but they will still take a long time before they truly catch up ..

 

BTW:

B-car will debut next NAIAS

so will Fusion Hybrid

Ford along with Toyota announced that they will not have diesel cars.

Escape was one of the last cars approved before the new management - new one will debut in 2010 (2 years away)

Ranger .. I will give you that one, although there are a lot of rumors of possible replacements

F150 will debut within a year.

 

Igor

[suv_guy_19]

Moseman - keep in mind, GM started their true turnaround in 2002 when Lutz and Wagoner took over .. Ford started last year - GM ahs been prepping for this year for past 4 years .. Ford just started .. but even from that position Ford is moving quicker than GM .. and a lot of GM fans are taking notice ... For example Ford will fuse the Fusion and Mondeo onto a new global platform before Gm will have AWD capable midsize out.

 

Ford will likely have a competitive B-car and C-car out before Gm replace their utterly mediocre Cobalt and Aveo. And while the Vue is very nice, we will see a brand new Escape before GM replaces the Torrent and Equinox.

 

Gm is not out of the woods .. they progressed very well, moving from subpar to mediocre, but they will still take a long time before they truly catch up ..

 

BTW:

B-car will debut next NAIAS

so will Fusion Hybrid

Ford along with Toyota announced that they will not have diesel cars.

Escape was one of the last cars approved before the new management - new one will debut in 2010 (2 years away)

Ranger .. I will give you that one, although there are a lot of rumors of possible replacements

F150 will debut within a year.

 

Igor

 

 

Based on this I would say this is a very exciting time for Ford and Ford fans.

Edited April 11, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[Hugh]

Based on this I would say this is a very exciting time for Ford and Ford fans.

I agree. Good points Igor.

[mooseman]

Moseman - keep in mind, GM started their true turnaround in 2002 when Lutz and Wagoner took over .. Ford started last year - GM ahs been prepping for this year for past 4 years .. Ford just started .. but even from that position Ford is moving quicker than GM .. and a lot of GM fans are taking notice ... For example Ford will fuse the Fusion and Mondeo onto a new global platform before Gm will have AWD capable midsize out.

 

Ford will likely have a competitive B-car and C-car out before Gm replace their utterly mediocre Cobalt and Aveo. And while the Vue is very nice, we will see a brand new Escape before GM replaces the Torrent and Equinox.

 

Gm is not out of the woods .. they progressed very well, moving from subpar to mediocre, but they will still take a long time before they truly catch up ..

 

BTW:

B-car will debut next NAIAS

so will Fusion Hybrid

Ford along with Toyota announced that they will not have diesel cars.

Escape was one of the last cars approved before the new management - new one will debut in 2010 (2 years away)

Ranger .. I will give you that one, although there are a lot of rumors of possible replacements

F150 will debut within a year.

 

Igor

 

I appreciate the fact that those are all in the pipeline, just that if the Flex is 15 months out and it was intro'd at this years NYIAS, I can expect that if the F150 is into'd at next year's NAIAS then at best its coming in Oct/Nov. Same withthe B-cars, etc. So, 2009 MY at best, or if it gets pushed back to Jan '09, then 2010 MY.

 

Thats an eternity for a company in Ford's financial condition. I really am pulling for Ford, I'm just seriously tired of Ford's over-promising and under-delivering. A Ford guy talked up the new Focus on the Autoweek forum like it was the best looking Ford small car ever and we got what we got. So, forgive me if I take all the good news on the horizon with a Morton's cardboard salt-can worth of salt.

 

I think Ford's biggest hurdle is that it owns too many brands and is too unwilling to dump the under-performing ones. Dropping Aston made good sense in that it allows Jaguar to compete with Aston now, but Mercury isn't gonna be sported up or Europeaned up because they don't want to steal sales from Mazda or Volvo. Volvo is dropping its R line in defference to Mazda at the low-end (say a C30 R) and Jag at the high end (say an S80R).

 

So, Ford has a brand-locked Mercury badge. The Milan is doing well. All the Mercury models do look betetr than their Ford cousins, but couldn't you just roll those changes into a Ford ST badging and add the price difference? Sounds better than suporting an entire brand with little true identity. Lincoln dealers will just have to bite the bullet and become low volume high profit dealers like Lexus/BMW/Volvo, etc. If dealers can't make money just selling Lincoln's, its only becasue Ford hasn't fielded competitive products til just now.

 

The Lincoln dealers in my town, which is about 1m people, are Ford/Mercury/Lincoln dealers. That can't be good for Ford. A Fusion/Milan/MKZ sitting side by side? Edge/MKX? No, bad business practice. It might get expesnive, but give Lincoln dealers an opportunity to sell out their franchise to Ford and let Ford keep a few boutique dealers around. But Mercury is dead weight with Mazda and Volvo in the stable.

 

I want to see more agressive moves like that, not half-hearted attempts like I've seen up 'til now.

Edited April 11, 2007 by mooseman

[igor]

^^Do you consider the Flex half hearted, or are you simply critical because it is 15 months away?

 

I do not disagree with you actually, I am just providing information I have about Ford's pipeline.

 

Let me know about the Flex.

 

Igor

[bolita]

Moseman - keep in mind, GM started their true turnaround in 2002 when Lutz and Wagoner took over .. Ford started last year - GM ahs been prepping for this year for past 4 years .. Ford just started .. but even from that position Ford is moving quicker than GM .. and a lot of GM fans are taking notice ... For example Ford will fuse the Fusion and Mondeo onto a new global platform before Gm will have AWD capable midsize out.

 

Ford will likely have a competitive B-car and C-car out before Gm replace their utterly mediocre Cobalt and Aveo. And while the Vue is very nice, we will see a brand new Escape before GM replaces the Torrent and Equinox.

 

Gm is not out of the woods .. they progressed very well, moving from subpar to mediocre, but they will still take a long time before they truly catch up ..

 

BTW:

B-car will debut next NAIAS

so will Fusion Hybrid

Ford along with Toyota announced that they will not have diesel cars.

Escape was one of the last cars approved before the new management - new one will debut in 2010 (2 years away)

Ranger .. I will give you that one, although there are a lot of rumors of possible replacements

F150 will debut within a year.

 

Igor

Am I the only one that believes that the T6 Ranger will make it to NA? I'd even go as far as to bet that it will be built in Mexico...

[joihan777]

I bought a Toyota Sienna 2 years ago because IMO there was no competition for my needs.

That minivan is very smooth driving and has decent power. The interior is extremely practical.

It is perfect for a young family and our stuff (and in-laws)when we travel together.

 

That being said, I want something a little easier to park and with better fuel economy.

Plus it'd be nice to drive an American car because it's an American car.

For Ford to make the Flex successful (^sales/^profit) they have to remember the target customer most

probably has children, a daddy that likes some performance, a mommy that appreciates creature comforts

and a family that needs good fuel economy and REQUIRES 5-Star safety ratings all the way around.

The panorama roof & entertainment system mentioned in the articles sound great too.

 

Also, FORD needs to prove to the masses (that fear FORDs are unreliable) that todays FORDs are

much improved in reliablity/ fit & finish. An extensive warranty may be needed initially.

 

In a year or two, I will be KEENLY interested in trading in my minivan and the FLEX sure looks like a contender.

 

//On a side note, can the Duratec 35 employ selective cylinder shut-off for improved economy?

[Sherminator98]

Am I the only one that believes that the T6 Ranger will make it to NA? I'd even go as far as to bet that it will be built in Mexico...

 

 

Well thats part of the "problem"...most of Fords assembly plants are already building what they are building..there is no real room to move around things...plus a small truck is cheap enough to build in the USA to make a profit on it.

 

When does Twin Cities Close? Thats the end of the Ranger as we know it now.