Ford: Quality equal to Toyota

[Blue Oval Guide]

Ford: Quality equal to Toyota

 

The report is based on an annual survey of 31,000 new vehicle owners that was conducted for Ford by the RDA Group, a market research firm based in Bloomfield Hills. The study evaluated 2007 model cars and trucks from all full-line manufacturers and asked drivers to list any problems they had encountered during their first 90 days of ownership.

 

The Detroit News reviewed the findings with sources familiar with the report. These sources said four Ford vehicles -- the Mercury Milan, Ford Shelby GT-500, Ford Expedition EL and Lincoln Navigator -- led their segments in initial quality.

 

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[RichardJensen]

I don't think "Not quite as good as Honda" plays well, but for individual vehicles there's potential here.

 

Ford even got begrudging backhanded compliments from David Champion--a man who has been bound and determined to keep the experiences of his subscribers from influencing his own prejudices against domestic makes.

 

On a side note, just what is up with David Champion and the domestics? From past remarks on the subject he seems positively convinced that the domestics will NEVER surpass anything carrying a Japanese badge, regardless of assembly point.

[matthewq4b]

All I can say is amazing.

 

Considering where Ford was a few short years ago in terms of initial quality this is an incredible improvement.

 

If nothing else you have hand it to Bill Ford he got this issue in order and under control in a very short period of time.

 

 

Give it a few years and consumers will be very aware of this. And the sales will reflect it.

Ford can not stop now though. They have to strive to be number one in quality.

 

Now might be a good time resurrect the "Quality is Job 1" tag line,

they have the stats and the record of improvement to back it up this time.

 

I,m not sure I would go whole hog just yet about blowing their horn on this, but letting people know they are as good as Yota and Nissan would not hurt. Wait till they are building the best cars and trucks in NA and then blow the whole advertising budget on pointing this fact out to the consumer.

 

Keep it up Ford stuff like this is exactly what is needed to turn things around. But it has to be a long term commitment, and not just the catch of the day.

 

 

Matthew

[g48150]

Hmmm...

 

Mercury Milan, Ford Shelby GT-500, Expi and Navi all top their segments.

 

What about the products that MORE people buy?

 

Don't get me wrong, its a good start, but statistically as your sample size increases, so does your probability for error.

 

I can't imagine the sample size for these four vehicles is as large as the sample size for a Toyota Camry or a Nissan Altima.

[tolaviator]

So 1458 problems with 1000 cars in 90 days is good? I'm curious as to what Toyota's numbers were; the article doesn't seem to say.

[NickF1011]

Hmmm...

 

Mercury Milan, Ford Shelby GT-500, Expi and Navi all top their segments.

 

What about the products that MORE people buy?

 

Don't get me wrong, its a good start, but statistically as your sample size increases, so does your probability for error.

 

I can't imagine the sample size for these four vehicles is as large as the sample size for a Toyota Camry or a Nissan Altima.

 

Well, I think the indicator with those models is that they are all relatively new or substantially reworked. It shows that Ford is going the extra mile as they move forward and it's paying dividends in quality perception by consumers. They just need to keep it up with all of their new models going forward and they should be able to weather the storm. I also recall Edge and Fusion being cited already for high quality by other publications, so it's not just the low-volume models that are receiving high marks lately.

[falconman13]

Sorry for being ignorant.

I was under the impression that the Milan and the Fusion were manufactured in the same plant by the same people. How can the Milan rate so much higher? I can see, being a mercury, they tend to use slightly higher grade materials in some areas, but that shouldn't affect manufacturing quality.

 

I am a complete novice as to the inner workings of an auto assembly plant. So, someone who knows, please enlighten me.

[NickF1011]

Sorry for being ignorant.

I was under the impression that the Milan and the Fusion were manufactured in the same plant by the same people. How can the Milan rate so much higher? I can see, being a mercury, they tend to use slightly higher grade materials in some areas, but that shouldn't affect manufacturing quality.

 

I am a complete novice as to the inner workings of an auto assembly plant. So, someone who knows, please enlighten me.

 

I didn't see where the article rated the Fusion specifically, so there's no way of telling just how "low" it actually placed. It was probably rated similarly, but they were probably in different classes of vehicles, so perhaps the Milan just fared better against the other vehicles in its class.

[silvrsvt]

Sorry for being ignorant.

I was under the impression that the Milan and the Fusion were manufactured in the same plant by the same people. How can the Milan rate so much higher? I can see, being a mercury, they tend to use slightly higher grade materials in some areas, but that shouldn't affect manufacturing quality.

 

I am a complete novice as to the inner workings of an auto assembly plant. So, someone who knows, please enlighten me.

 

 

Another thing to consider is the metrics of the testing...

 

For example, the Mini does really horrible at JD Power testing..its in the bottom of the pack, along with other single or two car manufactures like Hummer. From what I understand, the reason the Mini was rated so low was because of the cup holders in it...yep cup holders :rolleyes:

 

but anyways...I believe that if one car is basically the same as the other, like the Milan/Fusion/MkZ..that they are all basically as good as one another.

[falconman13]

I didn't see where the article rated the Fusion specifically, so there's no way of telling just how "low" it actually placed. It was probably rated similarly, but they were probably in different classes of vehicles, so perhaps the Milan just fared better against the other vehicles in its class.

I am not necessarily referring just to this one article, as I am referring generally to the higher numbers Mercury generally get overall.

I am not knocking Merc at all, I wish they had product I like, because the local Mercury dealer is hands down, the best dealership of any brand I have ever seen. It just seems odd to me that the Mercury models always seem to rate higher than the Ford siblings

[smok]

Excellent News. I drive an 06 Fusion, so I can relate to the quality rankings.

 

Unfortunately, all my friends are not swayed by initial quality. 3+year studies are more relevant.

[sim]

Excellent News. I drive an 06 Fusion, so I can relate to the quality rankings.

 

Unfortunately, all my friends are not swayed by initial quality. 3+year studies are more relevant.

Well if its no good out the door, its likely to be crapping out nicely at 3 years or so!

 

I do agree that you cant tell about longer term reliability from 3 months or use. I have had my Edge for 6 weeks now, i would say its great, probably at 3 months as well. I hope it stays good for 3 years and way beyond that!

 

I also subscribe to CR, its not just for cars. While the pool may not be complete with all types people in their polls, generally they get 1+ million replies on reliability of stuff, so you cant say its not somewhat in the range of statistical norms. I filled in the forms just recently giving good results for both of our cars, a few other things, but not pleased with our microwave so that got bad marks as it seems to be on the way out after only 2.5 years! Its an interesting read, its not the bible of reliability, but its probably a little more on the ball than some other surveys out there.

[akirby]

I am not necessarily referring just to this one article, as I am referring generally to the higher numbers Mercury generally get overall.

I am not knocking Merc at all, I wish they had product I like, because the local Mercury dealer is hands down, the best dealership of any brand I have ever seen. It just seems odd to me that the Mercury models always seem to rate higher than the Ford siblings

 

Mercury, as a brand, does not include Ford trucks which are typically only average in reliability (as are most other full size real trucks). Mercury also doesn't sell a Focus twin right now.

[Noah Harbinger]

Excellent News. I drive an 06 Fusion, so I can relate to the quality rankings.

 

Unfortunately, all my friends are not swayed by initial quality. 3+year studies are more relevant.

 

Hyundai pretty much demonstrated that an increase in initial reliability is very likely to lead to an increase in reliability down the road. When the 3-year reliability surveys came out for the vehicle year that initially gained Hyundai fame for the initial quality surveys, they showed marked improvement (not to top-of-the-pack status, but middle of the pack -- still a good gain). So, the Initial Quality is correlated somewhat to longer reliability.

[Noah Harbinger]

Hmmm...

 

Mercury Milan, Ford Shelby GT-500, Expi and Navi all top their segments.

 

What about the products that MORE people buy?

 

Don't get me wrong, its a good start, but statistically as your sample size increases, so does your probability for error.

 

I can't imagine the sample size for these four vehicles is as large as the sample size for a Toyota Camry or a Nissan Altima.

 

Given your tagline, I'm certain you know it, but for your viewing public out there, to clarify: As your sample size increases, you are more likely to see outliers, but your average is more likely to be accurate.

[swenson88]

Given your tagline, I'm certain you know it, but for your viewing public out there, to clarify: As your sample size increases, you are more likely to see outliers, but your average is more likely to be accurate.

 

 

Exactly. If anything, as your sample size increases your margin for error DECREASES. This is why in the scientific community research studies must have large sample sizes for the results to be statistically significant and have any credibility whatsoever. So in this case, the more people you interview the more believable the results. Ideally you would have data from every single vehicle owner, but the amount of data would be staggering and very challenging to collect and organize.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Fords have always been better than the Jap Crap, it's just that Ford owners are generally more critical of what we own. We just had a 2007 survey that was a bit bigger than the one listed you listed, with a lot of the same cars built at the same factories. If you are led believe the results of this survey below Skoda produce the best cars in the World, l don't think so, 99% of Skoda Owners will never own a real quality car in there entire lifetime, they are just telling a few porkies pie lies to push Skoda to the Worlds No1 Quality manufacturers league table just to have a laugh at fickle car industry surveys in General?

 

Fords are the best and always have been the best, l think all cars are much the same these days, all very reliable in general. It's building the cars folk want to buy is the most important thing, and always will be.

 

Have a look at the results

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/dr...p=manufacturers

 

Top Gear are the biggest survey in Europe but have not done the 2007 yet.

 

http://www.topgear.com/content/carsurvey/2...tures/08/2.html

Edited April 18, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds

[Swizco]

Sorry for being ignorant.

I was under the impression that the Milan and the Fusion were manufactured in the same plant by the same people. How can the Milan rate so much higher? I can see, being a mercury, they tend to use slightly higher grade materials in some areas, but that shouldn't affect manufacturing quality.

 

I am a complete novice as to the inner workings of an auto assembly plant. So, someone who knows, please enlighten me.

 

Most likely, this is due to Lincoln/Merc dealerships doing a better job with their pre-delivery of vehicles, fixing more things before they reach the customer.

 

Ford dealerships take the plastic off of the facias and the seats, and move 'em out. I'll bet this accounts for most of the difference, because the vehicles are treated the same way at the plant.

 

Swizco

[WingBender]

Unfortunately, all my friends are not swayed by initial quality. 3+year studies are more relevant.

Ford's recent initial quality results are encouraging, but I agree that long-term reliability is what most people are concerned about. A lot of people buy a new car with the intent of owning it long after the warranty expires. That is when you find out what a car is really made of. Is Vehicle X known for water pump failures around 50k miles? 100k miles? Or can you expect the water pump to never fail for the life of the car?

 

Initial quality surveys really only cover things that were either installed or built wrong.

[focus05]

Ford's recent initial quality results are encouraging, but I agree that long-term reliability is what most people are concerned about. A lot of people buy a new car with the intent of owning it long after the warranty expires. That is when you find out what a car is really made of. Is Vehicle X known for water pump failures around 50k miles? 100k miles? Or can you expect the water pump to never fail for the life of the car?

 

Initial quality surveys really only cover things that were either installed or built wrong.

 

I would say one of the biggest differences going forward will be customer satisfaction: an area where Toyota leads quite nicely. It's not just about car failures. My friend just sold her 1991 Honda Civic with 170,000 miles on it. It was the "highest quality car ever and will go for miles more!" She says that but she had a steering pump failure, a brake issue, and severe rusting in part of the body.

 

But why was she happy? Good dealer service. They took care of her car and her. It's not like they replaced things for free all the time, but there weren't hassles and she never felt ripped off. The dealers were fast and responsive. So the total down time was limited, despite some fairly significant problems.

 

That's the key. I mean, lower number of defects is good, but even if Ford stayed constant with Toyota and had low defects, if people still get frustrated with Ford dealers (in warranty or out), then people will still associate the Ford brand with low-quality and constant car problems.

[RichardJensen]

Actually, the one JD Power survey, SSI, satisfaction with the sales experience, consistently ranks Toyota well below Ford.

[Sporko]

If the goal is to impress the legions of Ford-haters (for lack of a better term) then I doubt that a study that "was conducted for Ford by the RDA Group" is going to do it.

[Extreme4x4]

Oh yeah............... because we all know that an independent 3rd party is always going to fudge their results. This is what will give them respect in the industry, and cause other companies to use them. :rolleyes:

 

Sorry Sporko, but I'm not impressed with your conclusions. JD Powers has also shown that pretty much all of FMC brands are above the industry average, and even Domestic hating CR (Consumer Reports) is mighty impressed by the Fusion / CD3 triplets, and rated them higher than the Camry and Accord in quality.

 

However, of course you are correct............... especially in your own mind.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Extreme4x4

[Noah Harbinger]

Oh yeah............... because we all know that an independent 3rd party is always going to fudge their results. This is what will give them respect in the industry, and cause other companies to use them. :rolleyes:

 

Sorry Sporko, but I'm not impressed with your conclusions. JD Powers has also shown that pretty much all of FMC brands are above the industry average, and even Domestic hating CR (Consumer Reports) is mighty impressed by the Fusion / CD3 triplets, and rated them higher than the Camry and Accord in quality.

 

However, of course you are correct............... especially in your own mind.

 

You are not an "independent 3rd party" if you are paid to do your polling by a company you are polling about, as was "the RDA group" -- an organization I've never heard of before this, and hardly a respected organization like JD Powers or Consumer Reports. Heck, even Strategic Vision has some credibility.

[atomcat68]

So 1458 problems with 1000 cars in 90 days is good? I'm curious as to what Toyota's numbers were; the article doesn't seem to say.

It doesn't say what the problems are either. We can't assume they are all engine failures. I had one problem with a creaky dashboard in my Mustang, but I love the car and want to keep it for 20 years!

Of course it will become a weekend car and I'll get a Fusion or something in the meantime, so I can do my part to kep the economy humming. :shades: