TStag Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Source: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...43_FORTUNE5.htm DETROIT -(Dow Jones)- Ford Motor Co. (F) has hired Goldman Sachs Group (GS) and Morgan Stanley (MS) to shop the struggling auto maker's Premier Automotive Group European luxury brands, according to an advance copy of an Automotive News Europe story that cites unnamed sources. The full Automotive News Europe story, which also says Italian auto maker Fiat SpA (F.MI) was interested in buying the Jaguar and Land Rover brands, will be published Monday. Fiat and Ford abandoned those talks in late May, the Automotive News story says. "We don't comment on speculation and (this story) is speculation," Ford spokesman Ray Day said Saturday. Ford, evaluating several options as it works to restructure its business, also talked to BMW AG earlier this year in relation to Ford's Swedish Vovlo brand, which is also a part of Ford's PAG unit. Ford recently said it isn't in the process of selling Volvo. Ford earlier in 2007 sold its Aston Martin brand to a group of investors. According to Automotive News Europe, Fiat group CEO Sergio Marchionne and Lewis Booth, head of Premier Automotive Group ended the discussions on a Jaguar and Land Rover sale because Fiat feared an adverse effect on its improving credit rating. Both Ford brands would have been useful to Fiat as the emboldened carmaker prepares to launch its Alfa Romeo brand in the U.S. in the first half of 2009, the report says. The growing market for SUVs as well as Land Rover's U.S. dealer network made the brand appealing to Fiat. -By John D. Stoll, Dow Jones Newswires; 248-204-5533; john.stoll@dowjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share Posted June 10, 2007 The timing of this story is funny. I talked to a friend of mine who works at the Jaguar/ Land Rover plant at Halewood and he was telling me that a sale of Land Rover and Jag was set to happen. He's normally quite reliable but I didn't want to post it as it was just a rumour. This and the BMW execs talking about buying Volvo suggest that the rumour could well be true. It will be interesting to see who buys LR and Jag. Another friend of mine at Whitley (Jag engineering works) mentioned Toyota and Hyundai had been looking round recently. If Ford do decide to sell then I think Toyota would be an excellent home as I think Toyota know how to run a sucessfull car business. They also have other manufacturing plants in the UK so they could really drive Land Rover and Jag forward..... but we'll see...... Hey that would be funny wouldn't it Ford selling more market share to Toyota.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 It keeps looking like Mullaly wants less distractions from the core business...which I welcome, though I've been a Jag fan since long before Ford bought the company. If PAG does sell...Ford will have gotten to help itself to the technologies of all the companies involved, and would then be able to apply all that to its core brands. God forbid that Lincoln were able to be a fully competitive luxury marque...and Mercury slot into the near-lux segment where it really belongs! If this benefits Ford/Lincoln/Mercury the way it would seem to...I'm all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 This will leave Ford with no global luxury brand, and there is currently no strong desire to move lincoln into a global brand. Mercury is getting abandoned............I mean if Ford Motor Company going to just become the Ford Brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share Posted June 10, 2007 I think your right Mullaly want's to focus on Ford, but that could also be a good reason to get rid of Mercury or Lincoln too... I think the Chinese (via SAIC) may try and buy Land Rover/ Jag so they can also access the Rover brand which they were said to be after. If that's the case then things really will get interesting. The Chinese already have British engineering firms designing 15 new models for export. Giving them Land Rover and Jag so they can start selling Western designed cars at Chinese prices in the USA could in the long term make this move look like Ford signing it's own death warrant. Then again maybe they will sell it to the Japanese instead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I think your right Mullaly want's to focus on Ford, but that could also be a good reason to get rid of Mercury or Lincoln too... I think the Chinese (via SAIC) may try and buy Land Rover/ Jag so they can also access the Rover brand which they were said to be after. If that's the case then things really will get interesting. The Chinese already have British engineering firms designing 15 new models for export. Giving them Land Rover and Jag so they can start selling Western designed cars at Chinese prices in the USA could in the long term make this move look like Ford signing it's own death warrant. Then again maybe they will sell it to the Japanese instead... you know I already had a thread on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 YES!! ABOUT TIME!! GET RID OF JAGUAR!! IT'S TIME TO REVIVE LINCOLN FORD!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 YES!! ABOUT TIME!! GET RID OF JAGUAR!! IT'S TIME TO REVIVE LINCOLN FORD!! Well, at least we wouldn't have to read about Jaguar's dismal sales results month after month with X and S-Type sales down by 60% every month ad nauseum. I know that Bill Ford Sr. loves Jaguar and probably main reason they own it. XJ sales aren't great either and even the XK had a bad month in May after many good months. Jaguar is real money pit and Ford cannot afford any more money pits IMO. The key will be how much can they get for it and I would imagine to get decent price they will probably have to throw in Land Rover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 It's just another rumor from an un-named source and Ford does not act this way when it sells a brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share Posted June 10, 2007 YES!! ABOUT TIME!! GET RID OF JAGUAR!! IT'S TIME TO REVIVE LINCOLN FORD!! Getting rid of Jag will help Lincoln how exactly? Jag isn't eating up Lincoln funding. Lincoln get's the money a small badge engineered operation in one country deserves, i.e. very little. Lincoln/ Mercury lack the managerial competenance that inspired Fiat to consider a bid for Land Rover and Jaguar. Had someone at Lincoln or Mercury thought about sending cars to Europe and using the Land Rover/ Jaguar dealer network then perhaps they would be generating enough sales to warrant greater investment. If Ford get rid of PAG then Lincoln or Mercury must go next. They make cars only in the USA where health care cost's are high. They are stoping Ford NA from focusing on Ford properly. Keeping both isn't an option when your already having to sell of Volvo and Land Rover which generated more profit. At least PAG run's itself. Lincoln and Mercury require Ford NA's attetion at a time when it must focus on Ford NA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share Posted June 10, 2007 Well, at least we wouldn't have to read about Jaguar's dismal sales results month after month with X and S-Type sales down by 60% every month ad nauseum. I know that Bill Ford Sr. loves Jaguar and probably main reason they own it. XJ sales aren't great either and even the XK had a bad month in May after many good months. Jaguar is real money pit and Ford cannot afford any more money pits IMO. The key will be how much can they get for it and I would imagine to get decent price they will probably have to throw in Land Rover. 'throwing in Land Rover' is the painfull bit. The simple answer would be to close Lincoln or Mercury and hand the dealers over to Jag/ Land Rover. This way Ford retains it's international premium brands and get's rid of a domestic brand which can't afford to develop car by itself any more. Jaguar has international 'cache' but is struggling with the retro craze Ford dumped on it. A couple more years and a bigger dealer network could see a highly profitable company with an international future. What is Lincoln's future after all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) Well, I'll believe it when I see it. I must admit that I'd hate to see Ford's more high profile brands go, and I'd hope in lieu Lincoln is readied to fill the gap in the company's prestige lineup. .......though who's ready to pay $60K plus thousand dollars for a Lincoln sedan? And when will they be ready? I also hope tha Ford uses Cadillac as an example and learns from thepitfalls of that brand (namely the overall lack of quality). But hey I'm for it if the company focuses on what's lacking........because afterall if Toyota rumbles on with two primary brands and moves the amount of volume, why can't Ford? A relaunched Lincoln/Mercury done right could be the ticket, but it is a major gamble. Edited June 10, 2007 by Michael Reynolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share Posted June 10, 2007 Forget trying to sell Lincoln as Lincoln outside the USA. No one in Europe would be seen dead in one. Frankly they would prefer a cheap car or a Lexus. Sorry if that sound's harsh but it's true. Lincoln could never take on Lexus or BMW so it's trapped in the USA. People need to understand just how hard it would be to sell a luxury American car in Europe. How many Caddilac's do we buy for example? Why not put Lincoln or Mercury up for sale. If no one makes an offer then Ford will know why keeping Jaguar makes much more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) I can understand Ford wanting to rid itself of Jaguar and to do so and get a decent price for it I am sure Land Rover will have to be included. For the life of me, however, I cannot understand why they would sell Volvo. It seems that Ford, Volvo, and Mazda work so well together. They share platforms, engineering, safety improvements, etc. I suppose they need the money, however I think letting Volvo go would be a huge mistake. If Ford does sell Jaguar and Land Rover then that means that outside of the North American market they are not interested in luxury brands except for Volvo and personally I feel that Volvo is more mid-luxury along the same lines as Lincoln. I have never been one on here to make negative statements...however...if this is true and the entire PAG is up for sale then it might just be Ford getting their house cleaned up to offer what remains of FoMoCo to a private investing group...last year at this time who in here thought Chrysler Group was going to be sold to a private group??? Anyone??? I hate to say it guys...but the General might be the only remaining publicly owned automaker left in the next few years...it's sad that a country like ours totally ignored such an important industry...sad. Edited June 10, 2007 by 2005Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Land-Rover makes money. Why would you want to sell something that makes money? Sell Volvo? Sure. But to whom? BMW make 1-to -7 series cars, SUV's and sportscars, and seem to be able to sell every one they make. Taking on Volvo . . . uh, why? Why risk loss of focus on what you do best? For what? FIAT? Weren't they a basket-case that GM waltzed with to the cost of 2 billion dollars or so, a couple of years back? Have they acquired the necessary financing? I mean, it's a great idea, if Ford can get the right bucks — FIAT will finally learn how to build cars that don't seem like they were punched out of old Cinzano signs. But Ford, unless they have a problem we don't know about, are going to want the biggest buck they can get for Jaguar, rather than fire-sale. Again, unless there's something we don't know about, why write the company off like M-B just did with Chryco, after spending all that money for the current 2-seaters, and the soon to be announced "S" replacement, and the new 5-liter V-8? Well, after spending lots of money on the "S" replacement, Jaguar will be worth a lot more if the market goes crazy for it 10-12 months from now, or whenever it gets launched. It'll be soon enough, why hurry? So, IMHO, there won't be any serious sales talk with anybody for at least 12-18 months, when the success of the new sedan will be known, and spy-shots of the new XJ start to circulate. And if the new car is a success, Ford won't need to sell Jaguar. My guess is that it will be a success. Chris Bangle, and the gang that did the giant-nose AUDI's are the cars best chance of success. Mercedes is uneven, Lexus is bland, Infiniti is model-confusing: they make some nice sleds, if you can remember what they call 'em. IMHO, they should make a 3.8 I-6 rag-top only sportscar. Make the platform-frame out of steel, so it can be built with the X-type's facilities. Sure, it's a little heavier, but the single exhaust manifold makes turbo plumbing a lot easier — you could pull 450hp for the "R" model. The Boxter's worst nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBear Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I personally think it's pretty much a case of having to throw LR and Volvo into the mix to package Jaguar. Holy crap- what a nightmare from the git-go. One thing is for certain- all the big manufacturers sure got stoopid when their pockets were full of cash. Ford, GM, Daimler, BMW, VW...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Even if Jaguar and Land Rover are profitable, the question would be whether the lump sum Ford would get for them would make more money invested in core brands, than Ford would get in profits from keeping Land Rover and Jaguar. If Ford could sucker someone into giving them like, 6-10 billion or so for the two brands, I'd say go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 This would be another stupid decision by Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Isn't the old adage "Buy low, sell high"? I'm afraid I don't see how Ford could benefit from spending billions on getting the all-new XF but selling the brand before the car hits the market. Jaguar has probably the second highest potential of any FoMoCo brand (1st being Volvo) and I hate to see Ford throw in the towel when they're so close from hitting the mark. And who'd want Jag/LR anyway? They're such unique products that I fail to see much demand from other large automakers. And don't get me started on a Volvo sale. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 i did not like it when they sold Aston Martin, but it was necessary i guess( i have always loved Aston and still will) but i really do not think they should sell jag or rover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theVengineguy Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Well, I don't see what Jaguar and Land Rover benefited Ford, other than becoming a poor investment. Ford gained safety tech from Volvo, which was useful for the 2008 Taurus. The corporation needs to start focusing on the processes that build cars. I would welcome the money that comes from this sell off to go to steel works. Steel prices are going outta sight, and if Ford had their own steel mill, it would give them a huge leg up on the competition. And the whole fact of it being impossible for Lincoln to become a world luxery brand is BS. Take Toyota's Lexus, it was nothing 12 years ago, look at it now. Matter a fact my brother inlaw owned one of the first Lexus's here in the states, and due to the positive experience, he keeps buying them. That being said, it's not impossible to replicate that. I can remember the 92-97 Towncars, those were luxery, and people loved them. Same can be said for the Mark 8, had options Cadillac wasn't even close to with their eldorado, consequently it did alright in the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 The corporation needs to start focusing on the processes that build cars. The process that builds cars is the same company wide regardless of what badge is slapped on the vehicle. The only reason the other brands should be sold is if Ford is in a position that its going to close its own doors if they dont generate some cash quickly. As it stands Jaguar looks poised to make a comback, LR is doing well and volvo is getting some new models that will hopefully stop its small sales skid. Moving the brands dont make sense to me at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68Cougar Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Forget trying to sell Lincoln as Lincoln outside the USA. No one in Europe would be seen dead in one. Most people in the USA won't been seen in one either! If any of this is true (and I doubt it very much) Ford maybe wanting to focus on the Ford brand only. Too bad the margins are smaller for a mainstream branded car, compared to a successful luxury car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 "Most people in the USA won't been seen in one either" Or they could be seen "dead" in one... a Lincoln Hearse that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Most new RETAIL Lincoln buyers are near death, or over 75.. At least the MKX isn't selling to Spanish-American war verterens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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