dunkin Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 its obvious that a lot of the skilled trades will be sitting on the side lines come contract time. since the union did not get a commitment from the company to replace the trades that took the buy outs. i would not expect the company to do a 1 for 1 but maybe a 1 for 2 or even a 1 for 3 would have been something to start with. the union got no commitment for replacement ratio. the union told us in november that that number would be negotiated after the final buyout numbers were determined. the company has reopened the buyouts but still no commitment to replace anyone. LETS HOPE THIS IS BEING NEGOTIATED NOW SEPT. 14 IS FAST APPROACHING!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Roboto Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Call me crazy. Why would the company pay people to leave then replace them with someone paid the same? The point of the buyouts is to get un-needed people off of the payroll, or to replace them with people at a permanently lower pay structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunkin Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share Posted August 12, 2007 Call me crazy. Why would the company pay people to leave then replace them with someone paid the same? The point of the buyouts is to get un-needed people off of the payroll, or to replace them with people at a permanently lower pay structure. [/we are already on the payroll. the company got their reduction in the work force through the buyouts . we are on layoff, gen, or on the famous flowback list that the company agreed to!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertigo13 Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Because buyouts must be offered to everyone, and not just selected people. In my plant, we are over on millwrights, tool & die, welders, and pipe-fitters. Unfortunately, electricians and machine repair people take the buyouts almost every time they are offered, and we are running short of them to keep the machinery running to the point that we are working overtime in those trades, and more are leaving Sept. 1st. [/quote Which plant are you from? I'm a machine repairmen, currently on ILO. If you are short M/R than I would like to know, because they are trying to get rid of us like crazy at Woodhaven Stamping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunkin Posted September 9, 2007 Author Share Posted September 9, 2007 its obvious that a lot of the skilled trades will be sitting on the side lines come contract time. since the union did not get a commitment from the company to replace the trades that took the buy outs. i would not expect the company to do a 1 for 1 but maybe a 1 for 2 or even a 1 for 3 would have been something to start with. the union got no commitment for replacement ratio. the union told us in november that that number would be negotiated after the final buyout numbers were determined. the company has reopened the buyouts but still no commitment to replace anyone. LETS HOPE THIS IS BEING NEGOTIATED NOW SEPT. 14 IS FAST APPROACHING!!!!!!!! TIME IS RUNNING OUT FOR SKILLED TRADES. DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH HOPING FOR AN 11TH HOUR MIRACLE !!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 TIME IS RUNNING OUT FOR SKILLED TRADES. DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH HOPING FOR AN 11TH HOUR MIRACLE !!!!!!!!! How about taking a chill pill bud. We can almost feel you coming loose at the seams right thru our screens. You need to have some faith. Has anyone so far, been involuntarily released ? No. They have taken various buyouts, gone back to production, gone to GEN, or perhaps ILO'd with SUB and Unemployment. Oh or Retired. Sorry I dont consider GEN or even ILO being thrown on the street. Worse case , after contract, half of us will have to go to production with trade pay and wait for openings.(probably through job postings thru out the states). P.S. Also a handful has flowed back ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunkin Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 How about taking a chill pill bud. We can almost feel you coming loose at the seams right thru our screens. You need to have some faith. Has anyone so far, been involuntarily released ? No. They have taken various buyouts, gone back to production, gone to GEN, or perhaps ILO'd with SUB and Unemployment. Oh or Retired. Sorry I dont consider GEN or even ILO being thrown on the street. Worse case , after contract, half of us will have to go to production with trade pay and wait for openings.(probably through job postings thru out the states). P.S. Also a handful has flowed back ........ i hope your still this positive next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 i hope your still this positive next week Hey bud, I'm resigned to some facts here. One, I can only control me. So what I cant control, try not to worry about it. Two, I came from production and I am not 40# over weight and outta shape...so if my best option is to go back, so be it. I can handle it. I went thru the 1980's BS and trust me, IMO, this still aint shit. So if you are sitting in GEN at Wixom, be thankful we have GEN. It wasnt there in early '80's. SUB/MESC for 6-12 mos. and then nothing. No $100K...no Education for 2 or 4 yrs plus pay+bennies...no $35K retirements. Those were summary dismissals. So first thank your union b-4 you take them to task. But please still take them to task. They need their feet held to the fire I agree but dont give up on them. Cuz you are the union. And if some of you were too used to 6 or 7 - 12's and now you get 40 hrs in GEN, all I can say is too damn bad. You now live on 40 hrs. This is not welfare or ADC or GA. (though some would call GEN--Welfare). But its called Work. You live with what you get. Sorry to ramble but its getting late................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skittet150 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Hey bud, I'm resigned to some facts here. One, I can only control me. So what I cant control, try not to worry about it. Two, I came from production and I am not 40# over weight and outta shape...so if my best option is to go back, so be it. I can handle it. I went thru the 1980's BS and trust me, IMO, this still aint shit. So if you are sitting in GEN at Wixom, be thankful we have GEN. It wasnt there in early '80's. SUB/MESC for 6-12 mos. and then nothing. No $100K...no Education for 2 or 4 yrs plus pay+bennies...no $35K retirements. Those were summary dismissals. So first thank your union b-4 you take them to task. But please still take them to task. They need their feet held to the fire I agree but dont give up on them. Cuz you are the union. And if some of you were too used to 6 or 7 - 12's and now you get 40 hrs in GEN, all I can say is too damn bad. You now live on 40 hrs. This is not welfare or ADC or GA. (though some would call GEN--Welfare). But its called Work. You live with what you get. Sorry to ramble but its getting late................. Amen Brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Amen Brother! If tradesmen get displaced can they displace production workers with less seniority, or can they only take available work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktp1989 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 If tradesmen get displaced can they displace production workers with less seniority, or can they only take available work? If a tradesman gets displaced and he originally hired in as production, he can roll back if his seniority allows. If he did not come from production, he cannot go to production. But to answer your question........he can displace a lower seniority production worker if he came from production originally and has seniority to roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 If tradesmen get displaced can they displace production workers with less seniority, or can they only take available work? We will have to wait and see. As ACH/main Ford plants close more trades and prod. will get dumped into GEN. Remember this....there are plenty of TFT's that could be displaced b-4 any permanent Ford workers. Whether the locals like it or not, we need to keep unions feet to the fire to be sure every Ford worker has a place b-4 temps.This could accomplish Fords wish to limit GEN and UAW's wish for all of us having a working job. Also I wouldnt be surprised to see the $35K buyout go up for trades only. I know plenty of 55-60 yr olds that would rather finally retire than go back on the lines. Also, with a VEBA, any new product promised in trade off will add Ford jobs, whether its Avon,MTP,LAP or wherever. And God only knows we need more product in our lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunkin Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 Hey bud, I'm resigned to some facts here. One, I can only control me. So what I cant control, try not to worry about it. Two, I came from production and I am not 40# over weight and outta shape...so if my best option is to go back, so be it. I can handle it. I went thru the 1980's BS and trust me, IMO, this still aint shit. So if you are sitting in GEN at Wixom, be thankful we have GEN. It wasnt there in early '80's. SUB/MESC for 6-12 mos. and then nothing. No $100K...no Education for 2 or 4 yrs plus pay+bennies...no $35K retirements. Those were summary dismissals. So first thank your union b-4 you take them to task. But please still take them to task. They need their feet held to the fire I agree but dont give up on them. Cuz you are the union. And if some of you were too used to 6 or 7 - 12's and now you get 40 hrs in GEN, all I can say is too damn bad. You now live on 40 hrs. This is not welfare or ADC or GA. (though some would call GEN--Welfare). But its called Work. You live with what you get. Sorry to ramble but its getting late................. relax, i was there in the early 80s i got my 5 sub checks for 52 credits, and i had to pay back the 630$ tra . i have seen it all and experienced it all . just hoping we all land on are feet this time around . talk to you next week good luck!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 How about taking a chill pill bud. We can almost feel you coming loose at the seams right thru our screens. You need to have some faith. Has anyone so far, been involuntarily released ? No. They have taken various buyouts, gone back to production, gone to GEN, or perhaps ILO'd with SUB and Unemployment. Oh or Retired. Sorry I dont consider GEN or even ILO being thrown on the street. Worse case , after contract, half of us will have to go to production with trade pay and wait for openings.(probably through job postings thru out the states). P.S. Also a handful has flowed back ........ I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the union is already negotiating what to do with the unused skilled trades. It's called IMT program where as they put the skilled trades in machining or production to run machines or sit on the assembly line. Only problem is that when ever called upon they still have to do their trades in their department. And also guess what DEPARTMENTAL SENIORITY goes with that!! You can't bump to another department or shift regardless of seniority, unless the person in YOUR department has less seniority. Our union has told us they want almost all but a handful of trades in this IMT program. Our electricians in our plant are working 7 days a week to try and keep up but the union won't let any electricians or machine repair out of the IMT program. The trades in the IMT program do not share overtime with the regular trades. This will be on the national contract probably worded that no one will know what it is so beware!! This IMT program will be an end to the solely skilled trades as we know it today!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 (edited) If a tradesman gets displaced and he originally hired in as production, he can roll back if his seniority allows. If he did not come from production, he cannot go to production. But to answer your question........he can displace a lower seniority production worker if he came from production originally and has seniority to roll. That only applies if this new IMT program doesn't pass. If it passes they can place you where ever they want to and then you can do that job plus your trade job at the same time. They only want certain trades in this program and a certain amount of them in each department and if you can't get the job you want then they will pick it for you and your seniority will only be good in that department. At our plant we are the pilot program plant for this IMT program and going back to production was not an option!! Edited September 11, 2007 by lepskilledtrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 That only applies if this new IMT program doesn't pass. If it passes they can place you where ever they want to and then you can do that job plus your trade job at the same time. They only want certain trades in this program and a certain amount of them in each department and if you can't get the job you want then they will pick it for you and your seniority will only be good in that department. At our plant we are the pilot program plant for this IMT program and going back to production was not an option!! This hasn't happened here at sterling and god willing it won't. We didn't go to school so we could go back on the line. We did it to improve ourselves. The union needs to fight for us or soon they'll let anybody start doing our craft. Not to mention, for all those plants that are part of the imt, have there been any cases of sabotage, to keep the jobs down, so you can do your trade work, instead of work on the line. It's not a pretty picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 This hasn't happened here at sterling and god willing it won't. We didn't go to school so we could go back on the line. We did it to improve ourselves. The union needs to fight for us or soon they'll let anybody start doing our craft. Not to mention, for all those plants that are part of the imt, have there been any cases of sabotage, to keep the jobs down, so you can do your trade work, instead of work on the line. It's not a pretty picture. Hang on to your shorts our union is pushing to get this passed even though we have repeatedly told them we don't want it. We already have trades running machines and doing their trades at the same time . Then on the other side of our plant they are tearing out an old v-6 line. Machine repair is doing every trade over there. They even got them tearing out conduit!! While electricians are stuck in this IMT program!! No cases of sabotage that we know about but we WOULD like to strangle our union!!! If this IMT program gets on the national contract say goodbye to the trades as we know them today!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Machine repair is doing every trade over there. They even got them tearing out conduit!! While electricians are stuck in this IMT program!! MR is also a trade that is heavy in engine and stamping plants but very light to nearly non-existent in most others. Obviously Ford will have to reconcile the classifications depending on the plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
182 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 (edited) We will have to wait and see. As ACH/main Ford plants close more trades and prod. will get dumped into GEN. Remember this....there are plenty of TFT's that could be displaced b-4 any permanent Ford workers. Whether the locals like it or not, we need to keep unions feet to the fire to be sure every Ford worker has a place b-4 temps.This could accomplish Fords wish to limit GEN and UAW's wish for all of us having a working job. Also I wouldnt be surprised to see the $35K buyout go up for trades only. I know plenty of 55-60 yr olds that would rather finally retire than go back on the lines. Also, with a VEBA, any new product promised in trade off will add Ford jobs, whether its Avon,MTP,LAP or wherever. And God only knows we need more product in our lineup. Livonia recently took in 160 people from other plants (Wixom, Sheldon Road, Rawsonville etc). In August we got the last 55 to replace the people that were supposed to be bought out at the end of the month. 90 decided to stay, so now we have 55 Livonia people going into GEN. Our local let these people come in and knock Livonia people out of jobs. Next year 4R75W is going to one shift, and those 160 still be working while 160 otherwise safe workers will be laid off. Why Ford is paying TPT at Dearborn and GEN at Livonia is asinine and par for this company. Jackasses should have sent the people to replace the temps instead of Ford workers. But instead they sent people to a plant that had no room for them. Edited September 12, 2007 by 182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunkin Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 Livonia recently took in 160 people from other plants (Wixom, Sheldon Road, Rawsonville etc). In August we got the last 55 to replace the people that were supposed to be bought out at the end of the month. 90 decided to stay, so now we have 55 Livonia people going into GEN. Our local let these people come in and knock Livonia people out of jobs. Next year 4R75W is going to one shift, and those 160 still be working while 160 otherwise safe workers will be laid off. Why Ford is paying TPT at Dearborn and GEN at Livonia is asinine and par for this company. Jackasses should have sent the people to replace the temps instead of Ford workers. But instead they sent people to a plant that had no room for them. Lets hope that this will all be settled at the negotiations this week. everybody is getting a little nervous about how everything is going to shake out. Do you have any idea how many temps are still working and at what plants???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Livonia recently took in 160 people from other plants (Wixom, Sheldon Road, Rawsonville etc). In August we got the last 55 to replace the people that were supposed to be bought out at the end of the month. 90 decided to stay, so now we have 55 Livonia people going into GEN. Our local let these people come in and knock Livonia people out of jobs. Next year 4R75W is going to one shift, and those 160 still be working while 160 otherwise safe workers will be laid off. Why Ford is paying TPT at Dearborn and GEN at Livonia is asinine and par for this company. Jackasses should have sent the people to replace the temps instead of Ford workers. But instead they sent people to a plant that had no room for them. Smells like cronyism and nepotism to me... But what's new? :fan: :fan: :fan: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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