OFFICIAL: Next Focus and Fusion on GLOBAL PLATFORMS

[igor]

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/23/mulally...ased-on-global/

 

Igor

[igor]

FULL ARTICLE: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...emaildailyANE02

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[MERKURXR4Ti]

About time...

[Deanh]

Ford execs have said that these cars will wear different styling and be tuned differently, but we've heard from inside the Blue Oval that a conflict between U.S. and Euro designers is growing, with the former group upset that its delicate balance of three-bar grilles will be upset by the Fiesta, and possibly other models, arriving with FoE's "Kinetic Design" theme.....................F"IN EGO"S!...classic case of anything you can do i can do better.....

[RichardJensen]

we've heard from inside the Blue Oval that a conflict between U.S. and Euro designers is growing, with the former group upset that its delicate balance of three-bar grilles will be upset by the Fiesta, and possibly other models, arriving with FoE's "Kinetic Design" theme.

 

Snide references aside, this -should- be happening.

 

The idea that Ford NA should adopt FOE's design language is as asinine as suggesting the reverse.

 

Ford sells a fair bit more vehicles in the U.S. than in the EU; having design direction led from Europe is like the tail wagging the dog---if not for the fact the U.S. designing cars for Europe is EQUALLY preposterous and EQUALLY wrong.

 

Ford is a 'home' brand in Britain (and to a lesser extent Spain), as it is in the U.S.; expecting that UK customers want U.S. styling on their cars is as profoundly incorrect as assuming that U.S. buyers want EU styling on their Fords.

 

----

 

Frankly, you cannot say "VW sells the same car everywhere" as VW moves not even a tenth of Ford's volume in the U.S., and (more to the point) is considered a GERMAN car here, just as it is considered a GERMAN car in Germany. Therefore they can look, well, German. They can have German suspensions and German steering, and German price tags and people are more or less fine with that.

 

----

 

What's more, as there will be separate stamping plants for U.S. and EU products, there IS NO NEED to share sheetmetal, other than some absolutely OUT OF TOUCH belief that -somehow- having the same looking cars on the road in Brighton and Brighton Beach is going to boost sales in both areas.

 

This is a false rationalization. You cannot find yourself any ounce of realworld data suggesting that common sheetmetal will work, and you can find PLENTY of data suggesting that differentiation will work.

 

Therefore, any PUSH (and that's what it is, a top-down push) to share sheetmetal between the EU and NA is counter to what is best for Ford.

[Sherminator98]

Therefore, any PUSH (and that's what it is, a top-down push) to share sheetmetal between the EU and NA is counter to what is best for Ford.

 

Well the big problem is with the hardpoints/greenhouse glass in the unibody design...if FNA wants a more squared out C pillar then FOE wants, your going to run into problems. I find that having two entirely different looking cars on the same platform with the Ford name on them to be wasteful in the development money spent.

 

I don't see what the big issue is if FNA just puts a new hood/fenders/bumper on its cars that integrate the Tri-bar design and the rest of the car is kinetic in design...if Kinetic just means having a huge opening in the front bumper like the Mondeo and Fiesta are sporting, thats just as ulgy as having the tribar in my eyes.

[Deanh]

Snide references aside, this -should- be happening.

 

The idea that Ford NA should adopt FOE's design language is as asinine as suggesting the reverse.

 

Ford sells a fair bit more vehicles in the U.S. than in the EU; having design direction led from Europe is like the tail wagging the dog---if not for the fact the U.S. designing cars for Europe is EQUALLY preposterous and EQUALLY wrong.

 

Ford is a 'home' brand in Britain (and to a lesser extent Spain), as it is in the U.S.; expecting that UK customers want U.S. styling on their cars is as profoundly incorrect as assuming that U.S. buyers want EU styling on their Fords.

 

----

 

Frankly, you cannot say "VW sells the same car everywhere" as VW moves not even a tenth of Ford's volume in the U.S., and (more to the point) is considered a GERMAN car here, just as it is considered a GERMAN car in Germany. Therefore they can look, well, German. They can have German suspensions and German steering, and German price tags and people are more or less fine with that.

 

----

 

What's more, as there will be separate stamping plants for U.S. and EU products, there IS NO NEED to share sheetmetal, other than some absolutely OUT OF TOUCH belief that -somehow- having the same looking cars on the road in Brighton and Brighton Beach is going to boost sales in both areas.

 

This is a false rationalization. You cannot find yourself any ounce of realworld data suggesting that common sheetmetal will work, and you can find PLENTY of data suggesting that differentiation will work.

 

Therefore, any PUSH (and that's what it is, a top-down push) to share sheetmetal between the EU and NA is counter to what is best for Ford.

so basically anything we lust after ie Mondeo and now this stunning B car just becomes a wet dream before it hits here....gimme Euro styling any day of the week....tasteful use of chrome NOT heavy handed, body colored appendages....cleaner look....funny thing is ford seems to release Monochrome looks prior to changes....

[NickF1011]

Well the big problem is with the hardpoints/greenhouse glass in the unibody design...if FNA wants a more squared out C pillar then FOE wants, your going to run into problems. I find that having two entirely different looking cars on the same platform with the Ford name on them to be wasteful in the development money spent.

 

I don't see what the big issue is if FNA just puts a new hood/fenders/bumper on its cars that integrate the Tri-bar design and the rest of the car is kinetic in design...if Kinetic just means having a huge opening in the front bumper like the Mondeo and Fiesta are sporting, thats just as ulgy as having the tribar in my eyes.

 

well, I think what you're going to see is stylistically SIMILAR vehicles...just not identical. It's not going to be like comparing the Fusion to the Mondeo. They'll probably just have cues here and there that are localized. That eliminates the problems you mentioned with hard points. Granted, SOME of those hard points can also be modified per market, as the stampings for the unit bodies would be done on a more localized basis too.

 

One area they CAN and BETTER really share a lot though is with interiors. There is no reason at all to have two entirely different interior designs in such similar cars. Audio and HVAC switchgear should all be virtually identical. Gauges should be similar. Steering wheels should be universal. The only area that may require a bit of change is the seats, where us fatass Americans have slightly different requirements.

Edited August 23, 2007 by NickF1011

[RichardJensen]

Well the big problem is with the hardpoints/greenhouse glass in the unibody design...if FNA wants a more squared out C pillar then FOE wants, your going to run into problems.

Not necessarily. There is no need to share the glass, or the exact shape of the C pillar. A certain bare minimum must be present, for structural reasons, but having satisfied that metal can be added and styled as desired (compare the greenhouses of the Thunderbird & Cougar, or the 3rd gen. Sable and Taurus).

 

Hardpoints, yes, should not change, but they form only a bare skeleton of the vehicle. The flesh--sheetmetal-can be very different.

[Deanh]

Well the big problem is with the hardpoints/greenhouse glass in the unibody design...if FNA wants a more squared out C pillar then FOE wants, your going to run into problems. I find that having two entirely different looking cars on the same platform with the Ford name on them to be wasteful in the development money spent.

 

I don't see what the big issue is if FNA just puts a new hood/fenders/bumper on its cars that integrate the Tri-bar design and the rest of the car is kinetic in design...if Kinetic just means having a huge opening in the front bumper like the Mondeo and Fiesta are sporting, thats just as ulgy as having the tribar in my eyes.

not to mention having to do a seperate set of crash tests etc.personall I love the big opening....that 12 cylinder has to be kept cool..... :shades:

[68Cougar]

About time...

Yeah, no shit. This could have been done many years ago, if it wasn't for egos.

[RichardJensen]

so basically anything we lust after ie Mondeo and now this stunning B car just becomes a wet dream before it hits here....gimme Euro styling any day of the week....tasteful use of chrome NOT heavy handed, body colored appendages....cleaner look....funny thing is ford seems to release Monochrome looks prior to changes....

Yeah, but it cuts both ways.

 

You say Euro design any day of the week.

 

Well, Looking at the Edge and the S-Max, I can tell you exactly where I (and probably about 90% of the people you could find) stand. The Edge is a fantastically good piece of design. The S-Max .... looks like a vacuum cleaner.

 

You can't get the Edge in Europe, you can't get the Mondeo here.

 

For the vaaaaaaaast majority of SANE level headed non-bleating non-opinionated non-forum ranting people, those of us that aren't like us, this just isn't even on the radar.

 

You find me a normal, well adjusted person with means to, who refuses to buy the Fusion simply, or even predominantly because it's not the Mondeo, and I'll show you a person with an undiagnosed mental condition. Sure people talk big on these forums, but what they do in the real world....... very different.

[wescoent]

well, I think what you're going to see is stylistically SIMILAR vehicles...just not identical. It's not going to be like comparing the Fusion to the Mondeo. They'll probably just have cues here and there that are localized. That eliminates the problems you mentioned with hard points. Granted, SOME of those hard points can also be modified per market, as the stampings for the unit bodies would be done on a more localized basis too.

 

One area they CAN and BETTER really share a lot though is with interiors. There is no reason at all to have two entirely different interior designs in such similar cars. Audio and HVAC switchgear should all be virtually identical. Gauges should be similar. Steering wheels should be universal. The only area that may require a bit of change is the seats, where us fatass Americans have slightly different requirements.

 

Very agreed about the interior designs. The development costs saved by using common designs can be used to buy higher quality materials. Ford of North America is already using a very European design language as-is, and there's no reason they can't just leave interior design to the Europeans, at least for shared products.

[RichardJensen]

not to mention having to do a seperate set of crash tests etc.personall I love the big opening....that 12 cylinder has to be kept cool..... :shades:

They have to do that anyway. It's not like the EU has the same standards as the U.S.

[wescoent]

Snide references aside, this -should- be happening.

 

The idea that Ford NA should adopt FOE's design language is as asinine as suggesting the reverse.

 

Ford sells a fair bit more vehicles in the U.S. than in the EU; having design direction led from Europe is like the tail wagging the dog---if not for the fact the U.S. designing cars for Europe is EQUALLY preposterous and EQUALLY wrong.

 

Ford is a 'home' brand in Britain (and to a lesser extent Spain), as it is in the U.S.; expecting that UK customers want U.S. styling on their cars is as profoundly incorrect as assuming that U.S. buyers want EU styling on their Fords.

 

----

 

Frankly, you cannot say "VW sells the same car everywhere" as VW moves not even a tenth of Ford's volume in the U.S., and (more to the point) is considered a GERMAN car here, just as it is considered a GERMAN car in Germany. Therefore they can look, well, German. They can have German suspensions and German steering, and German price tags and people are more or less fine with that.

 

----

 

What's more, as there will be separate stamping plants for U.S. and EU products, there IS NO NEED to share sheetmetal, other than some absolutely OUT OF TOUCH belief that -somehow- having the same looking cars on the road in Brighton and Brighton Beach is going to boost sales in both areas.

 

This is a false rationalization. You cannot find yourself any ounce of realworld data suggesting that common sheetmetal will work, and you can find PLENTY of data suggesting that differentiation will work.

 

Therefore, any PUSH (and that's what it is, a top-down push) to share sheetmetal between the EU and NA is counter to what is best for Ford.

 

Here's another key. If FNA and FoE products have different sheetmetal but shared mechanicals, there's a REAL easy way to save on Mercury products. Just use FoE sheetmetal, except with a Mercury badge. If the hard points are all the same, no reason the sheetmetal can't just be shipped over and bolted on at the factories.

[RichardJensen]

One area they CAN and BETTER really share a lot though is with interiors. There is no reason at all to have two entirely different interior designs in such similar cars. Audio and HVAC switchgear should all be virtually identical. Gauges should be similar. Steering wheels should be universal. The only area that may require a bit of change is the seats, where us fatass Americans have slightly different requirements.

That's probably the 'two seat frames': 'rest of the world' and 'wide load' (although, in all fairness as a rather narrow person, I find wider seats more comfortable for the kind of "Travels with Charley" road trips that are quintessentially American).

 

Anyway, I think the Mondeo & Fusion should share door cutouts and window glass, therefore interior door surfaces as well; further, since much of this material is provided by Tier 2 (and lower) suppliers, this is an area where parts for the U.S. and the rest of the world are conceivably manufactured in a single location making standardization a cost saver.

[Deanh]

Yeah, but it cuts both ways.

 

You say Euro design any day of the week.

 

Well, Looking at the Edge and the S-Max, I can tell you exactly where I (and probably about 90% of the people you could find) stand. The Edge is a fantastically good piece of design. The S-Max .... looks like a vacuum cleaner.

 

You can't get the Edge in Europe, you can't get the Mondeo here.

 

For the vaaaaaaaast majority of SANE level headed non-bleating non-opinionated non-forum ranting people, those of us that aren't like us, this just isn't even on the radar.

 

You find me a normal, well adjusted person with means to, who refuses to buy the Fusion simply, or even predominantly because it's not the Mondeo, and I'll show you a person with an undiagnosed mental condition. Sure people talk big on these forums, but what they do in the real world....... very different.

Edge is a huge success stylistically speaking in my eyes....but...and it is a BIG BUTT.....it is the ONLY vehicle in the current lineup whos sheetmetal is close to faultless...of course that is my opinion of course....but aside from that I find the Euro styling WAY superior on every front...notice I've said NOUT about interiors....l

[Deanh]

They have to do that anyway. It's not like the EU has the same standards as the U.S.

but they could save us at least a HUGE part thru supplying their data no?

[Deanh]

Here's another key. If FNA and FoE products have different sheetmetal but shared mechanicals, there's a REAL easy way to save on Mercury products. Just use FoE sheetmetal, except with a Mercury badge. If the hard points are all the same, no reason the sheetmetal can't just be shipped over and bolted on at the factories.

impossible........way too much tack on chrome,gaudy waterfall grilles and WAY oversized tail-lights in the blingbarn out back....

[igor]

Here's another key. If FNA and FoE products have different sheetmetal but shared mechanicals, there's a REAL easy way to save on Mercury products. Just use FoE sheetmetal, except with a Mercury badge. If the hard points are all the same, no reason the sheetmetal can't just be shipped over and bolted on at the factories.

yes - if the FNA goes with the "similar" approach for Ford brand, Mercury should become the exact copy of the EU Ford brand ..

 

but this all depends on just HOW CLOSE the US and EU models will be ..

 

E.g. the current Aura and G6 and the current Vectra are based on the same basic architecture - Epsilon platform - but they are VERY different cars underneath and on the outside.

 

Igor

[RichardJensen]

but they could save us at least a HUGE part thru supplying their data no?

No.

 

Ford has their own inhouse crash regimens ALONG WITH Euro NCAP and NHTSA NCAP regimens.

 

You run Euro NCAP tests and NHTSA NCAP tests in Cologne, and what money have you saved? It still requires running two tests, and you certainly can't use the same car twice.

 

I mean you can't close the Dearborn center and relocate everyone to Cologne, as you're then shipping all your trucks and vans to Cologne for crash testing, ditto the reverse where you'd have to ship all those dinky little cars over here for crash testing.

[Deanh]

No.

 

Ford has their own inhouse crash regimens ALONG WITH Euro NCAP and NHTSA NCAP regimens.

 

You run Euro NCAP tests and NHTSA NCAP tests in Cologne, and what money have you saved? It still requires running two tests, and you certainly can't use the same car twice.

 

I mean you can't close the Dearborn center and relocate everyone to Cologne, as you're then shipping all your trucks and vans to Cologne for crash testing, ditto the reverse where you'd have to ship all those dinky little cars over here for crash testing.

but wouldn't their initial testing give a groundwork for the tests here...there MUST be some data that is useful...OR heres a doozie...why not just spec the car for the most stringent of the two countries and leave it at that....kinda like having Cal emmissions on EVERY American car.....

[RichardJensen]

Edge is a huge success stylistically speaking in my eyes....but...and it is a BIG BUTT.....it is the ONLY vehicle in the current lineup whos sheetmetal is close to faultless...

And the Mustang is chopped liver to you?

 

Oddly enough, the Edge which is the first 'pure' expression of the 'red white and bold' or 'Dave' design language predated the Mondeo, which is the first 'pure' expression of the kinetic language, yet there is this strange assertion that EU design is 'farther ahead' than NA.

 

For its place, I think the Mondeo to be a good design, and in a vacuum, apart from the taillights, I consider it to be a fantastic one; but it has no place here. Ditto the Edge; it might sell to the same people in Europe that would buy a gray market Mustang, but to the general populace? No. It's just toooooo-----American.

[Deanh]

And the Mustang is chopped liver to you?

 

Oddly enough, the Edge which is the first 'pure' expression of the 'red white and bold' or 'Dave' design language predated the Mondeo, which is the first 'pure' expression of the kinetic language, yet there is this strange assertion that EU design is 'farther ahead' than NA.

 

For its place, I think the Mondeo to be a good design, and in a vacuum, apart from the taillights, I consider it to be a fantastic one; but it has no place here. Ditto the Edge; it might sell to the same people in Europe that would buy a gray market Mustang, but to the general populace? No. It's just toooooo-----American.

forgot about the beast....but it too is in need of a little makeover...great looking car just starting to date a little....although the 08 GT500 we just got in is pretty special.....black and MEAN!

[RichardJensen]

but wouldn't their initial testing give a groundwork for the tests here...there MUST be some data that is useful...OR heres a doozie...why not just spec the car for the most stringent of the two countries and leave it at that....kinda like having Cal emmissions on EVERY American car.....

There are no 'more' and 'less' stringent test. Just different tests period.

 

It's like getting a cheat sheet to your English lit exam, and thinking that since English lit is tougher than Geography, the cheat sheet will work on your Geography test just as well.

 

Any preliminary data sharing would be so 'preliminary' that the differences in sheetmetal would have almost no meaning. I mean, it's not like bumpers, hoods, and front fenders (or rear fender skins) are structural members.