armadamaster Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Mustang is a success for Ford, but not to the extent the LX platform was and still is a sucess for Chrysler, period. Infinitely more so than what can be said to date for Five Hundread/Taurus (new). Crown Victoria 3,520 Taurus (New) 3,562 I noticed few mentions of how ATROCIOUS new Taurus sales are? So, when officially will Five Hundread/Taurus be a sales flop? Time to bring the Vicky back to retail perhaps? Town Car sales or lack thereof are hideous no doubt. But oddly enough, I was just the local L/M lot a couple of weekends back and they were pretty much sold out of TCs. :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Mustang is a success for Ford, but not to the extent the LX platform was and still is a sucess for Chrysler, period. Infinitely more so than what can be said to date for Five Hundread/Taurus (new).I noticed few mentions of how ATROCIOUS new Taurus sales are? So, when officially will Five Hundread/Taurus be a sales flop? Time to bring the Vicky back to retail perhaps? Town Car sales or lack thereof are hideous no doubt. But oddly enough, I was just the local L/M lot a couple of weekends back and they were pretty much sold out of TCs. :reading: How can you say that the LX is more of a success than the Mustang...really...I don't get that. Yeah, because they haven't gotten any for months..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) How can you say that the LX is more of a success than the Mustang...really...I don't get that. Yeah, because they haven't gotten any for months..... Car sale for car sale I think it is....not to disregard the successful Mustang, I just mean unit per unit. I just saw the Charger was number..seven...IIRC, a couple of months back on the top ten list of car sales to date for 2007. Edited October 3, 2007 by Armada Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Ok, first, who has more than 4 cars in one brand? I don't know, just about everybody??? Obviously 4 isn't enough. Second, quit spouting your design opinion as fact. Take your own advice, I'll give my opinions on whatrever I wish, and you won't stop me, and I won't drink your Kool-Aid. I know a bad design when I see one, I took automotive and indutrial design at the #1 art school on Earth, the same place where people like Chip Foose and J. Mays graduated from. So I think I'm far more qualified to speak of design than you, some troll who thinks one of the worst automotive designs in history looks good. Third, small trucks in most forms get crappy mileage anyway. The retail share was stable and that is the most important thing. The ranger got the best mileage out of any small truck, and of course you defend Ford's decision to abandon the Ranger and another segment, it's thinking like yours that has led their sales into the gutter. If your way works so good there'd be something to show for it, Ford sold 33,000 less cars in September than they did last year, obviously you don't know what the hell you're talking about as usual.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Which still qualifies as learning to prevent future mistakes. The Mustang really is different. REGARDLESS of the car's respective successes, the LX cars got massive mainstream media coverage and the Mustang did not. The S197 Mustang didn't get massive media coverage? It was on the cover of EVERY mainstream automotive publication at LEAST once. It was on the front page of newspapers. It was all over the news. It was in several primetime commercials. It was likely the most-covered vehicle launch of the past decade!!! Funniest quote of the week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Car sale for car sale I think it is....not to disregard the successful Mustang, I just mean unit per unit. I just saw the Charger was number..seven...IIRC, a couple of months back on the top ten list of car sales to date for 2007. When the Chrysler 300, Charger, and Magnum are still on the market in 35 years, you can call them as successful as the Mustang overall.... As for the Taurus/Five Hundred mess.....when we actually start seeing a marketing/advertising push, we'll see where it ends up. As MANY have pointed out (including Ford) they have intentionally NOT done much advertising for the car yet to avoid mixing it up in the middle of '07 model clearances. Increased advertising is supposed to start sometime this month, likely in conjunction with ads for the '08 Focus. All of that said, I still doubt the Taurus will really pick up steam until it gets a ground-up redesign. There's nothing wrong mechanically or functionally, it's just rather sedate-looking. Edited October 3, 2007 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Ooooh a 9% drop for Volvo blimey. That's bad when you consider they have a new volume model in the C30 (which isn't setting the world alight). It's also a shocker when you consider they have tighter profit margins than real Premium car makers like Land Rover who co-incidentally saw an 8% increase in sales. agreed, Volvo is faultering. The S80 being all new for MY2007, the S40 and V50 variants have been refreshed for MY2008, seems the C70 is already dropping of in its 2nd year. Volvo's attempt to move into a higher $ bracket is IMO the issue slowing sales. The pricing has stopped me from shopping them, I had a 1999 S70, 2002 S60 and 2004 S60, each variant was the 2.4l non turbo models, which were all priced between Canadian$36,000 to $40,000. Today if I was still in Canada there is no 2.4l non turbo S60 offered, the lowest priced S60 now offered is the 2.5l LPT MSRP from $41,000 and up. If you down grade and shop the S40 and spec it the same as my previous S60, the price is over $44,000 for a smaller vehicle. I like the S40 but its not an S60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 The S197 Mustang didn't get massive media coverage? It was on the cover of EVERY mainstream automotive publication at LEAST once. It was on the front page of newspapers. It was all over the news. It was in several primetime commercials. It was likely the most-covered vehicle launch of the past decade!!! Funniest quote of the week! Nick, there are a bunch more people in the market for a 4 door sedan than a 2 door sports car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I'm actually surprised that Volvo posts some decent numbers considering how dated their bread and butter sedan (S60) is. And supposedly that's in hiatus, because Volvo is thinking of dropping the S40, just offer the S30 as the entry vehicle, and the S60 will maintain it's ground. Although they aren't sure what they are basing the vehicle on. The S60 has been quite the fleet queen as well, and it's Toyota Aisin transmission has been a headache for some owners (I know someone personally). The XC50 will probably be the vehicle that will make up some sales that they are loosig for letting certain models rot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Volvo is failing because of their product, They are all outdated or look outdated. The new S80 / v50 looks like they should have been launched in 2001. Their Best selling(or used to be before they let it linger to become a sales disaster) S60 should of been replaced last year. The S40 is expensive, and boring design that is across the entire brand. The C30 is exciting but who is it for? The XC90 seems like it has been out for ever. There product is either very old, or looks very old and the very slight MCE are a waste of money because the product is too old for an MCE to fix, especially whe nthe changes are almost completely unnoticeable. And coming out with new product that looks 8 years old, when they first started the double shoulder design, is not going to garner sales. They need a new design direction and shorter product life cycles. Volvo has been consistently posting about 10% drops and they have no future product in the near future to end the sales decline. Edited October 3, 2007 by DCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) 300 sales have been declining for the past few months, they are not 'hot' at all anymore. Just a 'favorite' of armchair analysts. Mustang outsold 300 in September, and they also are not direct competitors. One thing I agree with is Ford seems to be very wimpy with marketing. They are apologetic as it saying 'please buy, pretty please?" How about, "we don't make the Tempo anymore, and will you all get over the GD Pinto, it was last made 27 years ago!!!!" Edited October 3, 2007 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Volvo is failing because of their product, They are all outdated or look outdated. The new S80 / v50 looks like they should have been launched in 2001. Their Best selling(or used to be before they let it linger to become a sales disaster) S60 should of been replaced last year. The S40 is expensive, and boring design that is across the entire brand. The C30 is exciting but who is it for? The XC90 seems like it has been out for ever. There product is either very old, or looks very old. And coming out with new product that looks 8 years old, when they first started the double shoulder design, is not going to garner sales. They need a new design direction and shorter product life cycles. Volvo has been consistently posting about 10% drops and they have no future product in the near future to end the sales decline. Umm, when has a Volvo car ever looked cutting edge? Thats not the type of company they are, and IMO, the S80 is a very nice vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 Pony Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) d/p Edited October 3, 2007 by 96 Pony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 Pony Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) The new Escape is doing VERY well. When you look at inventory, days to turn, retail mix, incentive levels, and quality, the Escape it doing great. Much better than I thought it would. The Escape bested the Liberty (6830) the Patriot (4245) the Compass (2852) the Nitro (7044) the Caliber (6348). It even bested the "hot" 300 (9231) the Grand Cherokee, and on and on down the lost of Chrysler models. It looks like the Escape's refresh is doing a lot better than Chrysler's all-new flops. 300 sales have been declining for the past few months, they are not 'hot' at all anymore. Just a 'favorite' of armchair analysts. Mustang outsold 300 in September, and they also are not direct competitors. Talk about skewing facts and figures! Comparing a pony car to a full sized and a small SUV to a big one! Yea, and the Avenger outsold the Taurus and the PT Cruiser outsold the Expedition. Bottom line is Escape/Mariner sold 13,831 and Liberty/Nitro sold 13,874. It's also time for my monthly note to Ford to get their heads out of their asses and do something about their full-line flops! 300, Magnum, Charger sales for September: 22124 Crown Vic, Marquis, Taurus/500, Sable/Montego, Town Car sales for September: 16405 BRING OUT THE INTERCEPTOR!!!!!!!! Otherwise I am hopeful by these numbers. They are slowly starting to meet their goals. I think the Fusion is catching on (despite all the ones I see running around with bar codes on them). The Edge is really coming along well. Taurus X just came out but it is really nice and hopefully it's sales will be right up there with Fusion. Plus the huge drop in retail fleet sales which, after the demise of the fleet-queen Taurus is to be expected. I think this is just a bump in the road. On to 2008! Edited October 3, 2007 by 96 Pony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 I'd like to see what the average incentives and sale prices on Mariner/Escape vs Liberty/Nitro are though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 Pony Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) I'd like to see what the average incentives and sale prices on Mariner/Escape vs Liberty/Nitro are though. For 2008 Models currently: Escape/Mariner - $1000 Nitro - $750 Patriot - $500 Liberty - None Edited October 3, 2007 by 96 Pony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 For 2008 Models currently: Escape/Mariner - $1000 Nitro - $750 Patriot - $500 Liberty - None 2007 Liberty was $3000 to $6000 (dealer had $3000 rebate to use to seal the deal) http://www.internetautoguide.com/auto-reba...erty/index.html Is the 2008 even on sale yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Is the 2008 even on sale yet? Yes, there's a few of them at the local jeep dealer to include one with the full length retractable canvas roof, very cool. Edited October 3, 2007 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Yes, there's a few of them at the local jeep dealer to include one with the full length retractable canvas roof, very cool. Yeah, but how many 2007 Liberties were sold in September? The point is that when you consider a month that has multiple year models with different rebates sold it's a poor judge of comparing brand sales. If September sales for the Liberty were 90% 2007s at cut rate prices to make room for the 2008 (or vice versa on the Escape) we would have a different point of discussion other than who sold more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I'm actually surprised that Volvo posts some decent numbers considering how dated their bread and butter sedan (S60) is. And supposedly that's in hiatus, because Volvo is thinking of dropping the S40, just offer the S30 as the entry vehicle, and the S60 will maintain it's ground. Although they aren't sure what they are basing the vehicle on. The S60 has been quite the fleet queen as well, and it's Toyota Aisin transmission has been a headache for some owners (I know someone personally). The XC50 will probably be the vehicle that will make up some sales that they are loosig for letting certain models rot. I am to understand that the S40 is being dropped in favor of a slightly smaller S60 to directly compete with the 3-Series. The C30 will slot in on the bottom end, and the S80 will cater to traditional Volvo customers. Although very evolutionary in styling, the S80 is great-looking with a very very nice interior, and definitely a major upgrade from the prior model. If marketed right, the C30 could become a very fast cult-classic in the spirit of the Mini Cooper and GTI. XC50 can't get here fast enough. There is a huge market for a sub-XC90 SUV. Ultimately, I expect traditional Volvo customers to continue snapping up the S80, V70, and XC90, where new customers will enter the brand through the new S60, XC50, and C30. A very strong lineup indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 I am to understand that the S40 is being dropped in favor of a slightly smaller S60 to directly compete with the 3-Series. The C30 will slot in on the bottom end, and the S80 will cater to traditional Volvo customers. Although very evolutionary in styling, the S80 is great-looking with a very very nice interior, and definitely a major upgrade from the prior model. If marketed right, the C30 could become a very fast cult-classic in the spirit of the Mini Cooper and GTI. XC50 can't get here fast enough. There is a huge market for a sub-XC90 SUV. Ultimately, I expect traditional Volvo customers to continue snapping up the S80, V70, and XC90, where new customers will enter the brand through the new S60, XC50, and C30. A very strong lineup indeed. I really like that idea of a S60 that competes with the BMW 3-series. TwinForce turbos on the new 3.2 I6 from volvo? Yes please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Yeah, but how many 2007 Liberties were sold in September? The point is that when you consider a month that has multiple year models with different rebates sold it's a poor judge of comparing brand sales. If September sales for the Liberty were 90% 2007s at cut rate prices to make room for the 2008 (or vice versa on the Escape) we would have a different point of discussion other than who sold more. The same argument could be made about the 2007 / 08 Escapes. Look I don't know, I couldn't care less about that so long as neither Ford nor Chrysler (or GM as well for that matter) go out of business. That's all I care about bud. But I'll tell you what, that retractable canvas roof on the new liberty is damned cool and the new body style looks better as well. Ford should have thought of something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The same argument could be made about the 2007 / 08 Escapes. Look I don't know, I couldn't care less about that so long as neither Ford nor Chrysler (or GM as well for that matter) go out of business. That's all I care about bud. But I'll tell you what, that retractable canvas roof on the new liberty is damned cool and the new body style looks better as well. Ford should have thought of something like that. How does it work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 How does it work? It's on a track, it essentially folds back, accordian style, in either direction which makes it even more cool. So you can retract it to the rear for more open space above the front seat passengers or retract to the front for more open space above the back seat passengers. Jeep has it on their website if you want to see what it looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 It's on a track, it essentially folds back, accordian style, in either direction which makes it even more cool. So you can retract it to the rear for more open space above the front seat passengers or retract to the front for more open space above the back seat passengers. Jeep has it on their website if you want to see what it looks like. Duh, lol, I guess I should have thought to go look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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