Lincoln names are confusing apparently ...

[RichardJensen]

I think that's the part all the naysayers here conveniently overlook. Their sales are up considerably, and will be up even more considerably in coming years as more models are added to the lineup. Even better, the sales aren't of profitless fleet queens, but conquest retail customers for the most part.

That's not the point. The point is Ford NA sucks and you're just another blind cheerleader.

 

You suck.

 

I knew I could expect this from you. You just want Ford to fail. I bash Ford all the time because it makes me feel big they should have their nose rubbed in it when they screw up.

 

 

Stupid apologist.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Lincoln is doing well, and their growth is sustainable without continual investment to keep up with the Bimmers'; they've got a shot to out Lexus Lexus.

[lincmerc51]

Or alternatively, as reflected by sales, whats now right with Lincoln.

 

Lies, damned lies and statistics. When your sales have bottomed out, there's nowhere to go but up. I own since new an '01 LS (thank you, ghosts of Wixom) and an '04 Gator. They're both great cars. Pretty much best in class at their time. But Ford p_ssed away the LS and the new Navigator has as much appeal to me as a Checker. 'New' dashboard is horrible. There is nothing at Lincoln now or in the foreseable future that appeals to me. S is looking OK, but the interior is far outclassed by the Malibu, never mind the CTS and if u want the same mechanicals, get a 2006 or earlier S-80.

 

ANyway, sales are up, cause they were down so far. New Nav is selling a little better for some inexplicable reason?? MKX and Z sell fairly well too - but the real question is: "Are they Lincolns?" My answer is a definite NO. Do they build brand 'cachet'? Absolutely the other way round. They cheapen it. They are gussied-up Mazdas and it shows. Z is cheap, which might be why it sells. Though even as cheap as it is, it's overpriced, IMHO. Especially with the cost of the Mexican labor to produce it. And the names are just plain stupid. Just one man's opinion. The AE guy is right on in this man's book. Dont know when I'll be in the market for a car again, but from what I know about Fords' present and future offerings, I'll be looking elsewhere for the first time in a long time.

[NickF1011]

Lies, damned lies and statistics. When your sales have bottomed out, there's nowhere to go but up. I own since new an '01 LS (thank you, ghosts of Wixom) and an '04 Gator. They're both great cars. Pretty much best in class at their time. But Ford p_ssed away the LS and the new Navigator has as much appeal to me as a Checker. 'New' dashboard is horrible. There is nothing at Lincoln now or in the foreseable future that appeals to me. S is looking OK, but the interior is far outclassed by the Malibu, never mind the CTS and if u want the same mechanicals, get a 2006 or earlier S-80.

 

ANyway, sales are up, cause they were down so far. New Nav is selling a little better for some inexplicable reason?? MKX and Z sell fairly well too - but the real question is: "Are they Lincolns?" My answer is a definite NO. Do they build brand 'cachet'? Absolutely the other way round. They cheapen it. They are gussied-up Mazdas and it shows. Z is cheap, which might be why it sells. Though even as cheap as it is, it's overpriced, IMHO. Especially with the cost of the Mexican labor to produce it. And the names are just plain stupid. Just one man's opinion. The AE guy is right on in this man's book. Dont know when I'll be in the market for a car again, but from what I know about Fords' present and future offerings, I'll be looking elsewhere for the first time in a long time.

 

I'm going to take a wild guess and assert that you've never even been in a Lincoln showroom in the past 5 years, let alone even sat in or driven any of the new models. The interiors alone put any Lincoln LS ever produced to absolute shame. To defend the LS as what a Lincoln "should be" is, frankly, hilarious.

[FordBuyer]

Please tell me why only Ford Motor is picked on for using alpha-numeric names? Cadillac uses names like CTS, DTS, and STS, and Lexus names like ES-350, and Acura like MDX, and on and on and on. Hardly anyone uses traditional names on their luxury offerings. So Ford follows suit and it's confusion? MK is easy to remember and connotes the Mark name. Just add X, Z, S, R, or C and you can figure what segment it is in. Pretty simple. So what is the big problem? No one continually rails against Cadillac and Lexus for coming up with confusing numbers and letters, so why Ford? Cadillac uses TS as its root letters and Lincoln uses MK (Mark) for its root letters. So if you will Cadillac adds a prefix to differentiate the segment and Lincoln adds a suffix if you will to differentiate its segment model.

 

Yeah I love how the media constantly asks what is wrong with Lincoln, and ignores the sales success of MKZ and MKX. I know it's modest success, but it certainly is something to build on and Lincoln is adding new models at a fairly decent clip, and each new model is differentiated more from Ford model. The new MKS looks nothing like the Taurus inside or outside, and reportedly the new Lincoln 7 passenger Crossover will look nothing like the Ford Flex.

[FordBuyer]

Please tell me why only Ford Motor is picked on for using alpha-numeric names? Cadillac uses names like CTS, DTS, and STS, and Lexus names like ES-350, and Acura like MDX, and on and on and on. Hardly anyone uses traditional names on their luxury offerings. So Ford follows suit and it's confusion? MK is easy to remember and connotes the Mark name. Just add X, Z, S, R, or C and you can figure what segment it is in. Pretty simple. So what is the big problem? No one continually rails against Cadillac and Lexus for coming up with confusing numbers and letters, so why Ford? Cadillac uses TS as its root letters and Lincoln uses MK (Mark) for its root letters. So if you will Cadillac adds a prefix to differentiate the segment and Lincoln adds a suffix if you will to differentiate its segment model.

 

Yeah I love how the media constantly asks what is wrong with Lincoln, and ignores the sales success of MKZ and MKX. I know it's modest success, but it certainly is something to build on and Lincoln is adding new models at a fairly decent clip, and each new model is differentiated more from Ford model. The new MKS looks nothing like the Taurus inside or outside, and reportedly the new Lincoln 7 passenger Crossover will look nothing like the Ford Flex.

[RichardJensen]

And don't forget this:

 

 

STUPID ALPHANUMERIC NAMES. BRING BACK THE LS!!!!!!

[suv_guy_19]

And don't forget this:

 

 

STUPID ALPHANUMERIC NAMES. BRING BACK THE LS!!!!!!

 

 

Yeah, it seems 2 letters are much easier to understand than 3 :rolleyes:

[Mark B. Morrow]

Yeah, it seems 2 letters are much easier to understand than 3 :rolleyes:

 

It seems to work for Lexus.

[lincmerc51]

"I'm going to take a wild guess and assert that you've never even been in a Lincoln showroom in the past 5 years, let alone even sat in or driven any of the new models. The interiors alone put any Lincoln LS ever produced to absolute shame. To defend the LS as what a Lincoln "should be" is, frankly, hilarious."

 

Keep guessing. I follow autos pretty well. I've sat in ALL of Lincolns' current offerings. I drove a(n) Mark (mk) X 2 weeks ago. It is reasonably nice. But the IP is tonka-toy and the door panels are tupperware. NOT a Lincoln. I followed the X drive by driving a GMC Acadia and lemmetellya, for about the same money, the Acadia is a FAR nicer, better equipped, more powerful, bigger, trickier (heads-up display eg) than the X by far. AND gets the same gas mileage. There is no question in my mind that GM has a huge winner with this platform and the Ford Edge and X are second rate. ESPECIALLY the brakes. Even on the test drive, I could feel the brakes in the X are screwed. And all the tests show you'd be better to stick your feet out the door and drag em to stop these things. The fact that Ford, which has lost so much money and 'face' with lawsuits would sell vehicles with horrible brakes is astounding to me. And no AdvanceTrak on the emm kay zee is just ridiculous.

 

I agree that the LS interior left a lot to be desired. It was designed before Lincoln realized that interiors are quite important to buyers - hell, we spend 95% of the time looking at the inside of the car, only 5% the outside. However, the LS is definitely what a Lincoln should be in terms of a real automobile, designed to be driven. Not a softened up Mazda-6. And I dont agree about the new interiors. They are old-fashioned and remind me of the Versailles. The guages are like cheap antique knock offs. At least the LS guages have a modern, if too-familiar, look. And the '04 Navigator IP is so much nicer and modern than the '07 it's not even close.

 

And as for RJ's wise-ass remark, at least the LS had some understandable meaning "Luxury Sedan" or "Luxury Sport". What the hell is a Mark or emm kay whatever? a emm kay sedan? then what's a emm kay zee? And for them to start saying "Call it 'Mark'" and then say, "um, no, not so much Mark, call it emm kay" just shows how truly fucked up they are there. I agree again with AE.com - Ford and Lincolns' marketing is absolutely a JOKE.

 

OK, didnt mean to start, or continue, an argument. Just was really pointing out that AE was on the same page as some of you.

[TomServo92]

I followed the X drive by driving a GMC Acadia and lemmetellya, for about the same money, the Acadia is a FAR nicer, better equipped, more powerful, bigger, trickier (heads-up display eg) than the X by far. AND gets the same gas mileage.

 

I went on a week long business trip back in November and one of my hosts had a brand new Acadia. I spent a good part of that week riding around in it. After hearing all the rave reviews, I was shocked at how much hard plastic there was in it. Yards of it. Don't get me wrong, its a nice vehicle. But to say it's FAR nicer than an Edge/MKX is stretching it.

[NickF1011]

I don't see where people really get the impression that the Lincoln LS is "sporty" compared to the MKZ either. Neither car handles like it's on rails, and the LS transmission is amongst one of the sloppiest shifting autos in a "luxury" car I've ever experienced. And even with the V8, its acceleration was nothing to write home about.

 

I also take exception to the "gussied up Mazda" references. Hell, I wish my Mazda6 had an interior/powertrain/available options like the MKZ. I REALLY wish it was as quiet as one too. The Mazda6 is noisy as hell inside. It handles pretty well and seems to be holding together okay, but those two traits certainly aren't BAD things to share with other platform-mates.

[P71_CrownVic]

Yeah, it seems 2 letters are much easier to understand than 3 :rolleyes:

Luxury Sedan. You can't figure that out?

[TomServo92]

Luxury Sedan. You can't figure that out?

 

OK, in the Lexus lexicon (say that 10 time really fast!), what does ES mean? or IS? or RX?

[P71_CrownVic]

OK, in the Lexus lexicon (say that 10 time really fast!), what does ES mean? or IS? or RX?

I don't know, I don't care about Lexus.

[I_DRIVE_ MAZDAS]

Let's play a name association game.

 

I'll list the name of the vehicle and tell you what comes to mind when I read or hear it.

 

Lincoln Town Car - 75 year old driving slow in the fast lane with retirement hats and a box of tissues in the back window of the car. Oh yeah and the phrase "my Grandfather always wanted one of those but he bought a Grand Marquis instead because they are the same car just different logos".

 

Lincoln Zephyr - Rusted out boxy turd of a car driven by an 80 year old widow once a week to bingo

 

Lincoln Aviator - a dressed up cheap looking Explorer with a faster engine

 

Lincoln Continental - A chain smoking 50 something year old with a bee hive hairdo that thinks they have a rare car that is actually the guinea pig for every engineering idea at Ford motor company.

 

Now flip those geezer names to something trendy like letters

 

MKZ - No idea, let's see what it looks like

The all new 2009 MKS - Must be all new because I have never heard that name before.

MKX - Must be an SUV or CUV. Saab 92X, X5, X6, X3 they're all utility vehicles right.

MKR - Must be a fast car to have R in the name like others that use R

Mark LT - What in the hell is it? Why is the name different than others in the lineup?

[TomServo92]

I don't know, I don't care about Lexus.

 

What, you can't figure them out? You were quick to figure out what LS meant.

Edited November 21, 2007 by TomServo92

[P71_CrownVic]

What, you can't figure them out? You were quick to figure out what LS meant.

Why would you post without even reading what I posted?

 

Did I say that I can't figure them out? No. I said that I don't care about Lexus.

 

But FWIW:

 

Let's take, for example, the Lexus LS 430. The second letter in any Lexus car's name indicates the body style. An S is a sedan, an X is a sport/utility vehicle and a C is a convertible. The 3-digit number is based on the engine size in liters. So the LS 430 has a 4.3 liter engine, and a GS 300 has a 3.0 liter engine.

 

The first letter in a Lexus name indicates the relative size and cost of the car. The higher in the alphabet the letter is, the higher the price. For some reason -- a Toyota spokesman wasn't sure why -- the R SUVs are an exception to this particular rule. They are actually the least expensive Lexus SUVs.

Edited November 21, 2007 by P71_CrownVic

[suv_guy_19]

Why would you post without even reading what I posted?

 

Did I say that I can't figure them out? No. I said that I don't care about Lexus.

 

But FWIW:

 

 

Actually, you started with "I don't know."

[lincmerc51]

OK, how about just nicer? However, GMC is NOT a luxury nameplate. You wanna see FAR nicer and better materials, then see the Buick Enclave. It's what the X should have been. I've read that Lincoln no longer even strives to compete with Cadillac but rather have set their sights on Buick. Well, they have to aim higher to even hit THAT target.

[NickF1011]

Luxury Sedan. You can't figure that out?

 

So the Saturn LS was a luxury sedan too?

[NickF1011]

OK, how about just nicer? However, GMC is NOT a luxury nameplate. You wanna see FAR nicer and better materials, then see the Buick Enclave. It's what the X should have been. I've read that Lincoln no longer even strives to compete with Cadillac but rather have set their sights on Buick. Well, they have to aim higher to even hit THAT target.

 

You've read? Read where? Here? I don't recall anyone from FORD saying that Lincoln has its sights set on Buick.

[P71_CrownVic]

Actually, you started with "I don't know."

Yeah, as in, "I don't know what Lexus' naming scheme is". I followed that by saying, "I don't care about Lexus", meaning that I can't be bothered to research it.

 

But, for the sake of this thread, I took 30 seconds and figured it out. It makes sense now.

[suv_guy_19]

Yeah, as in, "I don't know what Lexus' naming scheme is". I followed that by saying, "I don't care about Lexus", meaning that I can't be bothered to research it.

 

But, for the sake of this thread, I took 30 seconds and figured it out. It makes sense now.

 

Well then, please explain it.

[suv_guy_19]

You've read? Read where? Here? I don't recall anyone from FORD saying that Lincoln has its sights set on Buick.

 

Don't you know Nick? Everything negative written here is undeniable truth. I mean, if a few people on here think something is stupid or don't like something, its obviosly true and an opinion shared by all.

[P71_CrownVic]

So the Saturn LS was a luxury sedan too?

If that is what Saturn meant it to be. Why would you even bring Saturn up? This whole "LS" thing was about the Lincoln.