Does Ford Need A Small Wagon or Minivan?

[FordBuyer]

With the new Focus, I see a big hole in Ford's lineup. I know the new Verve B segment hatchback will fill some of the hole, but right now Ford has no small wagon or better yet minivan. There was talk of bringing over the C-Max. But it looks to me like Wayne Assembly has the capacity to produce small Minivan based off of Focus platform or wagon. Why not? There are people out there who want a space efficient vehicle that delivers at least 30 mpg and tailgate for loading bulky items. Ford has the Taurus X wagon, but it doesn't deliver Focus like mpg. I myself would like to see Focus like minivan like the CMax which would really bring Wayne up to full capacity and fill a hole in Ford's lineup. Ford needs more vehicles that get at least 30+mpg, and a multifunctional vehicle would be a bonus.

[silvrsvt]

I'm sure we'll see the CMax when the C2 come here...I think a Vibe/Matrix/PT Cruiser/HHR vehicle is a good idea for Ford.

[igor]

YES Ford needs a CUV/Wagon/Hatch smaller than the Escape - DEFINITELY.

 

We are seeing a company in the middle of significant product change- and for 2 years this space will be vacant, but Ford will redeem itself quite nicely - by 2011 calendar year it will have the most diverse small car lineup on the market:

 

Fiesta 5door and 4 door

Puma

Bronco

B-Max

Focus (at least one hatch, although the final model lineup has not been revealed yet)

C-Max

Escape

 

The closest automaker in number of variations and models offered will be Toyota+Scion - not a bad place to be :D

 

Igor

[FordBuyer]

YES Ford needs a CUV/Wagon/Hatch smaller than the Escape - DEFINITELY.

 

We are seeing a company in the middle of significant product change- and for 2 years this space will be vacant, but Ford will redeem itself quite nicely - by 2011 calendar year it will have the most diverse small car lineup on the market:

 

Fiesta 5door and 4 door

Puma

Bronco

B-Max

Focus (at least one hatch, although the final model lineup has not been revealed yet)

C-Max

Escape

 

The closest automaker in number of variations and models offered will be Toyota+Scion - not a bad place to be.

 

Igor

 

Thanks for the info Igor. I can't wait. Sounds very promising. Fuel mileage is becoming more important with each passing year and keeping your vehicle more multifunctional. Looks like Ford is planning on becoming strong competitor in this market. The C-Max should be a winner.

[theoldwizard]

YES Ford needs a CUV/Wagon/Hatch smaller than the Escape - DEFINITELY.

 

We are seeing a company in the middle of significant product change- and for 2 years this space will be vacant, but Ford will redeem itself quite nicely - by 2011 calendar year it will have the most diverse small car lineup on the market:

 

Fiesta 5door and 4 door

Puma

Bronco

B-Max

Focus (at least one hatch, although the final model lineup has not been revealed yet)

C-Max

Escape

ALL of these models will be available in the US for 2012MY ?

 

I would be very surprised, given how far in debt the company currently is. Do you know what the interest cost are on $20-25 Billion ! Most of that money is needed to pay salaries (blue and white collar) and suppliers so I don't see any big investments in tooling over the next 2-4 years.

 

Even if there is extra capacity overseas for these models (and I don't know if there is) they do not meet US emission and safety standards. Look how long it is taking to get the Fiesta up to US standards.

[Watchdevil]

YES Ford needs a CUV/Wagon/Hatch smaller than the Escape - DEFINITELY.

 

We are seeing a company in the middle of significant product change- and for 2 years this space will be vacant, but Ford will redeem itself quite nicely - by 2011 calendar year it will have the most diverse small car lineup on the market:

 

Fiesta 5door and 4 door

Puma

Bronco

B-Max

Focus (at least one hatch, although the final model lineup has not been revealed yet)

C-Max

Escape

 

The closest automaker in number of variations and models offered will be Toyota+Scion - not a bad place to be :D

 

Igor

 

 

Ford needs this lineup yesterday...

[igor]

ALL of these models will be available in the US for 2012MY ?

 

I would be very surprised, given how far in debt the company currently is. Do you know what the interest cost are on $20-25 Billion ! Most of that money is needed to pay salaries (blue and white collar) and suppliers so I don't see any big investments in tooling over the next 2-4 years.

 

Even if there is extra capacity overseas for these models (and I don't know if there is) they do not meet US emission and safety standards. Look how long it is taking to get the Fiesta up to US standards.

I Will remain hopeful until proven wrong.

 

Igor

[silvrsvt]

Look how long it is taking to get the Fiesta up to US standards.

 

Say what? The biggest reason a B-car is taking so long is the EcoSport was canned by Fields and they desided to wait till the next go around with the Fiesta/Verve that comes out next year. Not to mention that by 2012 or so nearly every Ford car platform will be shared globally, there is No excuses why one model made in Europe can't be moved to the States when it comes to crash standards when a platform mate is already sold here.

[Blueblood]

YES Ford needs a CUV/Wagon/Hatch smaller than the Escape - DEFINITELY.

 

We are seeing a company in the middle of significant product change- and for 2 years this space will be vacant, but Ford will redeem itself quite nicely - by 2011 calendar year it will have the most diverse small car lineup on the market:

 

Fiesta 5door and 4 door and 3 door

Puma

Bronco

B-Max

Focus (at least one hatch, although the final model lineup has not been revealed yet, 3 door is confirmed)

C-Max

Escape

 

The closest automaker in number of variations and models offered will be Toyota+Scion - not a bad place to be :D

 

Igor

 

Yea, that better be the case, or..

[focus05]

ALL of these models will be available in the US for 2012MY ?

 

I would be very surprised, given how far in debt the company currently is. Do you know what the interest cost are on $20-25 Billion ! Most of that money is needed to pay salaries (blue and white collar) and suppliers so I don't see any big investments in tooling over the next 2-4 years.

 

Even if there is extra capacity overseas for these models (and I don't know if there is) they do not meet US emission and safety standards. Look how long it is taking to get the Fiesta up to US standards.

 

You've been reading doom and gloom again, haven't you. Interest is part of their normal profit/loss statement and right now Ford is burning through very little cash, which means they are absorbing the financing costs currently with their normal operations. The whole purpose of taking out that debt was to finance a turnaround which includes tooling and development investment.

 

Most importantly, it allows them to run cash negative for a couple years. That means while their normal operations might bring in $5-6 billion in cash each year (I'd have to verify that with depreciation ammortized each year - it might be bigger), they can spend $8-10 billion without worrying yet. In a couple years when they are profitable, Ford will probably have even more cash coming in from operations.

 

It's not like all the money they have now is fixed and unchanging or only moving negative. They will have $33 billion at the end of this year. That's a lot of tooling consider their operations bring in cash each year before you count outflows due to investments, research, settlements and other factors.

 

Their ability to pay employees is not in question. Their ability to finance their debt is not in question. The only thing people are questioning is their ability to finance additional debt... but if they have to do that, there are real problems that probably would have already surfaced.

 

So, yes, they can have every one of those vehicles on U.S. streets by 2012MY if it's in their development plan now.

[suv_guy_19]

You've been reading doom and gloom again, haven't you. Interest is part of their normal profit/loss statement and right now Ford is burning through very little cash, which means they are absorbing the financing costs currently with their normal operations. The whole purpose of taking out that debt was to finance a turnaround which includes tooling and development investment.

 

Most importantly, it allows them to run cash negative for a couple years. That means while their normal operations might bring in $5-6 billion in cash each year (I'd have to verify that with depreciation ammortized each year - it might be bigger), they can spend $8-10 billion without worrying yet. In a couple years when they are profitable, Ford will probably have even more cash coming in from operations.

 

It's not like all the money they have now is fixed and unchanging or only moving negative. They will have $33 billion at the end of this year. That's a lot of tooling consider their operations bring in cash each year before you count outflows due to investments, research, settlements and other factors.

 

Their ability to pay employees is not in question. Their ability to finance their debt is not in question. The only thing people are questioning is their ability to finance additional debt... but if they have to do that, there are real problems that probably would have already surfaced.

 

So, yes, they can have every one of those vehicles on U.S. streets by 2012MY if it's in their development plan now.

 

Very insightful....as usual.

[Biker16]

Ford will need a Real minivan, eventually.

[wescoent]

Ford will need a Real minivan, eventually.

 

Debatable. The only market in the world I see for a true minivan is the US, and I just can't see volume justifying the expense of development, especially with the Euro-MPVs available virtually as-is for sale.

[MKII]

Why is Ford testing the S-Max in the U.S.A?

In L.A. back in August http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/01/ford-s-...-to-the-states/

 

running up and down Detroit's Woodward corridor this weekend,

http://jalopnik.com/cars/spy-photos/ford-s...roit-328893.php

[RichardJensen]

Why is Ford testing the S-Max in the U.S.A?

In L.A. back in August http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/01/ford-s-...-to-the-states/

 

running up and down Detroit's Woodward corridor this weekend,

http://jalopnik.com/cars/spy-photos/ford-s...roit-328893.php

Because they can.

 

Ford always has vehicles from overseas markets here.

[MKII]

So the purpose of this is "because they can"

That's very insightful.

[Edstock]

I can't wait to see how the Transit Connect is received. It's just my stupid opinion, but I believe there is a bigger market for this than most expect.

 

[RichardJensen]

So the purpose of this is "because they can"

That's very insightful.

Seriously. Ford has global engineering operations, and it's not uncommon for vehicles to be tested in more than one location if for no other reason than to calibrate testing methodology.

 

With Ford going global with platform engineering, they certainly need to make sure that Dearborn and Cologne are on the same page as far as testing procedures and results are concerned.

 

The LA appearance is less explicable---at the time, I believe debate centered around photo shoot or film appearance.

[Deanh]

I can't wait to see how the Transit Connect is received. It's just my stupid opinion, but I believe there is a bigger market for this than most expect.

 

oh YEAHHHHHH! flashbacks to the Aerostar cargos we could not keep on the lot...barring the OLD Scion ( new too spendy ) with see thru decals there is ZERO competition....

[regfootball]

the mazda5 doesn't sell. a ford version would do no better.

 

cute utes will outsell it.

 

ford does need a true minivan. the new chrysler is a dud.

[Biker16]

Debatable. The only market in the world I see for a true minivan is the US, and I just can't see volume justifying the expense of development, especially with the Euro-MPVs available virtually as-is for sale.

 

the galaxy would be a niche van, it is too small to be mainstream in the US.

 

the minivan market is too big and too profitable to leave to the competition.

[tcap for now]

i think it will depend on the economy and fuel prices. we have a focus wagon that is our family car for a family of 5. its small at times, but saves on gas and is cheaper to maintain than a suv. a minivan would be nice but uses more fuel and costs a lot more to buy. it almost time to replace it and currently ford does not have a replacement. id like a taurus-x but it costs a lot more than a focus. with the economy the way it is we dont want that big of a loan. we will likely wait to see if a new small wagon comes. if there is not one or word of one in the next year or so we may look for a slightly used focus wagon.

[MKII]

C-Max pics (current C-Max exterior) on stretched C platform, noticed B pillar has extra 3-4" extension.

Some pics you can see 3rd row

http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied_veh...d/photo_01.html

[DUCKRACER]

i think it will depend on the economy and fuel prices. we have a focus wagon that is our family car for a family of 5. its small at times, but saves on gas and is cheaper to maintain than a suv. a minivan would be nice but uses more fuel and costs a lot more to buy. it almost time to replace it and currently ford does not have a replacement. id like a taurus-x but it costs a lot more than a focus. with the economy the way it is we dont want that big of a loan. we will likely wait to see if a new small wagon comes. if there is not one or word of one in the next year or so we may look for a slightly used focus wagon.

How about the 4-door Focus?

[DRyanC]

How about the 4-door Focus?

 

 

You've missed his point. A sedan and wagon are not the same.

 

I was in the same boat, wanted a wagon but when I went to purchase wagons had been finished for a year so I couldn't find exactly what I wanted. I did get a ZX5 but still wished I had got a wagon. Now when my 2000 dies it will be a wagon or the C-max, it's hard not to buy Ford when you get A-plan. The price for a Taurus X, I could have bought 2 focii. I'm comfortable with my sexuality and man hood that I don't feel the need to compensate. I don't tow, don't need 4 wheel drive, don't need 7 seats. A wagon is all what most people need for there main car. Buy one focus new, spend the rest on a used focus and build it in to a track car for the same as an X.

 

DRyanc