December Sales

[Explorer4X4]

I expected better, but oh well. Cheers to Lincoln though. Last I heard Cadillac, with their fancy designs and what not, are still losing money. At least Lincoln is making cash. Lets just wait and see how well the new F-150 and Flex perform.

[TStag]

 

laugh all you like, I know it might sound mad but I believe Ford can survive! I even think some one might buy them.....

[NickF1011]

laugh all you like, I know it might sound mad but I believe Ford can survive! I even think some one might buy them.....

 

Who on earth that could afford Ford would even bother? Nobody.

[jpd80]

I feel confident Ford will survive the short term, but I'm begining to think that by the end of nex year Ford will either be owned by another car company or become the owner of Chrysler. There are a lot of positive things that you can say about Ford now that the healthcare liabilities issue is fading and that they are 1 year away from new models but Ford is carrying a huge amount of debt in an industry which is very tough. CAR magazine is speculating that the Ford family plan to sell their shares and voting rights this year, despite the fact they said they won't. I can see why they might if the right deal is presented to them. So I for one think Ford may be a very different looking company inside a year.

 

1. Why would Ford divest J/LR only to go and buy Chrysler?

2. Ford is capable of paying back their loan raised 12 months ago, cash at hand is over $34 billion, three times what Chrysler has.

3. Most of "Ford's debt" is linked to Ford credit customer loans that are money earners.

4. The Fords are not planning on selling Ford Motor, stock prices are around $6.73, about 1/3 of what they were in 2000 and 2004.

Edited January 3, 2008 by jpd80

[sranger]

Ford is busy in their words, "right sizing" production to true sales level and changing its product mix.

Examples of this are two thirds of the 2006-2007 sales drop was from discontinued vehicles and more 4-cylinder

Fords being sold now compared to two years ago.

 

The numbers were not really all that bad, but the problem is that Ford seem to be losing market share faster than it is down sizing.... That trend cannot last much longer...

 

The stock market has more or less given up on Ford($6.45 was the last I saw.) If this drop in stock prices continues, Ford will have a lot more problems that just heavy debt. A complete loss of market capital is also a going to be a big problem. The people who own Ford's debt have got to be swetting bullets...

 

I now do not think Ford can survive 2008 in tact. The general economy and auto market are going to tank in 2008. I think that the most likely senario will be that Ford is in bankrupcy before the end of the year. I just do not see any way Ford can avoid it...

Edited January 3, 2008 by sranger

[suv_guy_19]

The numbers were not really all that bad, but the problem is that Ford seem to be losing market share faster than it is down sizing.... That trend cannot last much longer...

 

The stock market has more or less given up on Ford($6.45 was the last I saw.) If this drop in stock prices continues, Ford will have a lot more problems that just heavy debt. A complete loss of market capital is also a going to be a big problem. The people who own Ford's debt have got to be swetting bullets...

 

I now do not think Ford can survive 2008 in tact. The general economy and auto market are going to tank in 2008. I think that the most likely senario will be that Ford is in bankrupcy before the end of the year. I just do not see any way Ford can avoid it...

 

You expect Ford to burn through $34B in a year....ok.

Edited January 3, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[silvrsvt]

The numbers were not really all that bad, but the problem is that Ford seem to be losing market share faster than it is down sizing.... That trend cannot last much longer...

 

 

Um overall marketshare for Ford has been around 13% for the past couple years

[jpd80]

I think that the most likely senario will be that Ford is in bankrupcy before the end of the year. I just do not see any way Ford can avoid it...

 

Careful, that's a mighty big statement to make.

Ford Global will continue to carry FNA as long as it takes, just like FNA carried FoE a while back.

And by the way, Ford are cutting $5 Billion/year out of North American production costs.

Edited January 3, 2008 by jpd80

[TStag]

1. Why would Ford divest J/LR only to go and buy Chrysler?

2. Ford is capable of paying back their loan raised 12 months ago, cash at hand is over $34 billion, three times what Chrysler has.

3. Most of "Ford's debt" is linked to Ford credit customer loans that are money earners.

4. The Fords are not planning on selling Ford Motor, stock prices are around $6.73, about 1/3 of what they were in 2000 and 2004.

 

My thoughts:

1. LR is only being sold to get rid of Jag. By taking on Chrysler Ford could rationalise production further in the USA and gain better economies of scale. But it may see the death of Mercury and/ or Chrysler in the USA. The only logic is economies of scale in truth....

 

2. Where did the figure of $34 billion dollars come from? I though it was nearer $24 billion?

 

3. I agree, but it's still debt and helps to depress the share price, which is ideal if your a buyer of Ford Stock....

 

4. That's a big statement in favour of "it'll never happen", like Ford won't sell JLR..... The Ford family will probably get a lot more than the share price as they control 40% of the voting rights with just 4% of the shares, so I'm led to believe.

 

A for possible buyers, then I for one would bet on VW or Renault/ Nissan...

[TStag]

Careful, that's a mighty big statement to make.

Ford Global will continue to carry FNA as long as it takes, just like FNA carried FoE a while back.

 

I basically agree that Ford won't go bust this year, but the US recession may turn out to be a global one. It's gonna be tough for FOE too I suspect....

[jpd80]

My thoughts:

 

2. Where did the figure of $34 billion dollars come from? I though it was nearer $24 billion?

No, $24 Billion was the loan, Cash On Hand is between $34.7 billion and 35.2 billion.

That comes from Ford's quarterly statements.

 

When Ford sells J/LR for $2 billion, the also say bye bye to $2 billion pension liabilities,

So that's a $4 billion cash turnaround, I can live with that.

Edited January 3, 2008 by jpd80

[P71_CrownVic]

Look at that Sable go! It's on FIRE!!!

[richardmayo]

Numbers for the year 2007:

Biggest Winner of the Year

Mazda 9.8% at 296,110 (2006: 268,786)

 

Biggest Loser of the Year

Jaguar –24.4% at 15,683 (2006: 20,683)

 

BRANDS

Acura–10.8% at 180,104 (2006: 201,223)

Audi 3.4% at 93,506 (2006: 90,116)

BMW 6.7% at 293,795 (2006: 274,432)

Buick –23% at 185,791 (2006: 240,657)

Cadillac –5.7% at 214,726 (2006: 227,014)

Chevrolet –6.5% at 2,265,641 (2006: 2,415,428)

Chrysler –10.5% at 543,011 (2006: 604,874)

Dodge –2.1% at 1,058,402 (2006: 1,077,579)

Ford –13.9% at 2,101,244 (2006: 2,433,086)

GMC 4.8% at 505,746 (12/06: 481,222)

Honda 4.5% at 1,371,438 (2006: 1,308,135)

HUMMER –22% at 55,986 (2006: 71,524)

Hyundai 2.2% at 467,009 (2006: 455,520)

Infiniti 4.5% at 127,038 (2006: 121,146)

Jaguar –24.4% at 15,683 (2006: 20,683)

Jeep 3.0% at 475,237 (2006: 460,052)

Kia 3.5% at 305,473 (2006: 294,302)

Land Rover 3.4% at 49,550 (2006: 47,774)

Lexus 1.8% at 329,177 (2006: 322,434)

Lincoln 8.8% at 131,487 (2006: 120,476)

Mazda 9.8% at 296,110 (2006: 268,786)

Mercedes 1.8% at 253,433 (2006: 248,080)

Mercury –7.2% at 168,422 (2006: 180,848)

MINI 7.0% at 42,045 (2006: 39,171)

Nissan 4.5% at 941,200 (2006: 898,103)

Pontiac –13% at 358,022 (2006: 410,229)

Porsche 1.0% at 34,693 (2006: 34,227)

Saab –10.3% at 32,711 (2006: 36,349)

Saturn 5.7% at 240,091 (2006: 226,375)

Subaru –7.0% at 187,208 (2006: 200,703)

Suzuki 0.6% at 101,884 (2006: 100,990)

Toyota 2.9% at 2,291,648 (2006: 2,220,090)

Volkswagen –2.3 at 230,572 (2006: 235,140)

Volvo –8.6% at 106,213 (2006: 115,807)

 

NA: Mitsubishi

 

COMPANIES

BMW Group 6.7% at 335,840 (2006: 313,603)

Chrysler Group –3.4% at 2,076,650 (2006: 2,142,505)

Ford Motor Co –12.1% at 2,572,599 (2006: 2,918,674)

General Motors –6.5% at 3,866,620 (2006: 4,124,645)

Honda America 2.5% at 1,551,542 (2006: 1,509,358)

Nissan North America 4.5% at 1,068,238 (2006: 1,019,249)

Toyota Motor Co. 2.7% at 2,620,825 (2006: 2,542,524)

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Numbers for December 2007:

 

Biggest Winner

MINI 44% at 3,562 (12/06: 2,472)

 

Biggest Loser

Mitsubishi –40.4% at 5,904 (12/06: 9,910)

 

BRANDS

Acura –7.7% at 17,582 (12/06: 19,056)

Audi -29% at 8,502 (12/06: 11,897)

BMW –2.4% at 30,199 (12/06: 30,945)

Buick –9.9% at 14,400 (12/06: 15,986)

Cadillac –5.6% at 21,436 (12/06: 22,715)

Chevrolet –4.5% at 185,626 (12/06: 194,369)

Chrysler –13% at 48,384 (12/06: 55,839)

Dodge 11% at 92,235 (12/06: 88,489)

Ford –9.0% at 173,648 (12/06: 190,914)

GMC 8.9% at 45,503 (12/06: 41,770)

Honda 1.3% at 114,210 (12/06: 112,722)

HUMMER –23% at 5,333 (12/06: 6,928)

Hyundai 24.2% at 46,487 (12/06: 37,365)

Infiniti –3.5% at 12,655 (12/06: 13,112)

Jaguar –2.0% at 1,522 (12/06: 1,553)

Jeep –3.0% at 44,804 (12/06: 46,087)

Kia –19.8% at 24,068 (12/06: 30,004)

Land Rover –18.7% at 4,887 (12/06: 6,014)

Lexus –7.2% at 34,555 (12/06: 37,235)

Lincoln –21.4% at 10,065 (12/06: 12,806)

Mazda 25% at 24,933 (12/06: 19,912)

Mercedes –2.9% at 27,301 (12/06: 28,115)

Mercury –8.5% at 12,631 (12/06: 13,809)

MINI 44% at 3,562 (12/06: 2,472)

Mitsubishi –40.4% at 5,904 (12/06: 9,910)

Nissan –2.2% at 76,900 (12/06: 78,663)

Pontiac –7.8% at 30,211 (12/06: 32,772)

Porsche –2.0% at 2,891 (12/06: 2,947)

Saab –22.3% at 2,748 (12/06: 3,535)

Saturn –12% at 18,196 (12/06: 20,686)

Subaru–9.1% at 18,739 (12/06: 20,613)

Suzuki 0.6% at 7,361 (12/06: 7,317)

Toyota –0.7% at 189,844 (12/06: 191,087)

Volkswagen 3.0% at 20,543 (12/06: 19,942)

Volvo 9.6% at 9,341 (12/06: 8,525)

 

COMPANIES

BMW Group 1.0% at 33,761 (12/06: 33,417)

Chrysler Group 1.0% at 191,423 (12/06: 190,415)

Ford Motor Co –9.2% at 212,094 (12/06: 233,621)

General Motors –5.2% at 323,453 (12/06: 341,327)

Honda America 0.0% at 131,792 (12/06: 131,778)

Nissan North America –2.4% at 89,555 (12/06: 91,775)

Toyota Motor Co. –1.7% at 224,399 (12/06: 228,322)

 

from Autoblog.com

Edited January 3, 2008 by richardmayo

[P71_CrownVic]

Hey, look at that, Ford just got replaced by Toyota as the 2nd largest automaker in the US.

[Edstock]

A for possible buyers, then I for one would bet on VW

 

— and Chrysler?

 

I know, it's silly, and it won't happen, but . . .

 

The VW megalomaniacs now have Porsche's ultra-megalomaniacs calling the plays, after a leveraged buy-in of a controlling-minority interest in VW. Apparently these übermenschen have made noises like VW being #1 or #2 in a decade, really, they have.

 

M-B might be entirely happy with their 20% in a VW-operated package, as they are currently in talks with BMW about shared components. Think of it as a Kraut keiretsu against the Asian onslaught.

[TStag]

— and Chrysler?

 

I know, it's silly, and it won't happen, but . . .

 

The VW megalomaniacs now have Porsche's ultra-megalomaniacs calling the plays, after a leveraged buy-in of a controlling-minority interest in VW. Apparently these übermenschen have made noises like VW being #1 or #2 in a decade, really, they have.

 

M-B might be entirely happy with their 20% in a VW-operated package, as they are currently in talks with BMW about shared components. Think of it as a Kraut keiretsu against the Asian onslaught.

 

To be honest part of my thinking is that VW could go shopping, given their stated intent. They only sell 200,000 odd cars a year in the USA (as VW). Buying a US car maker would fix that. In many ways buying Ford or Chrysler has got to be a thought for them. If they got Ford they would also get FOE and Volvo. Both of which would fit right into VW quite snugly. They could even work wonders at Lincoln by allowing them to access the vast upmarket parts bins they have. So you see if the Ford family does sell, and I admit that's a big if, then VW/ Porsche may quite fancy it.

[jpd80]

Hey, look at that, Ford just got replaced by Toyota as the 2nd largest automaker in the US.

Oh they did that a while back, they're pushing GM for world's largest automaker.

[TomServo92]

Hey, look at that, Ford just got replaced by Toyota as the 2nd largest automaker in the US.

 

That happened in October. Can't you keep up? :P

Edited January 3, 2008 by TomServo92

[630land]

Back in Y2K, gas was 1.20 tops, and Excursions, Expeditions, Explorers went out the door.

 

How does one expect them to get back to 4mill sales over night? It's not going to be with RWD V8 Panthers.

 

Also, they were supposed to go broke in 2005, 2006, and this past year per "experts", so I don't think 2008 will be "the year" either.

Edited January 4, 2008 by 630land

[P71_CrownVic]

It's not going to be with RWD V8 Panthers.

 

Better chance with those than the D3s.

[igor]

Product question:

 

When does the Transit Connect arrive?

 

This is just my stupid opinion with absolutely no fact to back it up, but I believe it is really going to go over really well, especially in urban areas. It could even be the reprise of Lido's original, small Econoline, for a new generation.

 

http://www.autosavant.net/2007/12/ford-tra...n-hold-for.html

 

Igor

[igor]

Hey, look at that, Ford just got replaced by Toyota as the 2nd largest automaker in the US.

nope that happened last year ..

 

Igor

[jpd80]

Better chance with those than the D3s.

Rather than arguing Panther Vs D3, I'd say Ford is continuing to

ignore the RWD sedan segment even though it has several choices

of either upgrading panthers, releasing a new RWD platform or Importing Aussie Falcon.

 

So seemingly fumbling around doing nothing is the real crime.

 

As a stop gap, why not import some new Falcons for 2009 fitted with North American engines,

Australia could easily supply about 30,000/year to compete with Pontiac G8.

At least that would give the veneer of caring...

Edited January 4, 2008 by jpd80

[FordBuyer]

No matte how you look at it, December was not a good month for Ford. After a flat November, I was hoping for at least flat December if not a little better. Now we are back to almost double digit sales declines again with no end in sight. This company can really demoralize you at times. Ford acts like it has all kinds of time as it plods along. Ford in my view needs to show at least 3 interesting concepts this auto show season and build at least one of them. This double digit nonsense cannot go on much longer.

[suv_guy_19]

No matte how you look at it, December was not a good month for Ford. After a flat November, I was hoping for at least flat December if not a little better. Now we are back to almost double digit sales declines again with no end in sight. This company can really demoralize you at times. Ford acts like it has all kinds of time as it plods along. Ford in my view needs to show at least 3 interesting concepts this auto show season and build at least one of them. This double digit nonsense cannot go on much longer.

 

In all fairness, Ford had a pretty good December last year, and this was a very bad December for almost everyone. What matters is that Ford is not giving away the cars that they are selling. They should be able to make a good amount of money on this sales volume.