RichardJensen Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) However, I think it can be gotten around by having a third row that collapses into the floor, and then having 2nd row seats that can slide all the way to the back to maximize 2nd-row legroom. It's an interesting test, maybe, but an apt one, IMO. You want to pull up at a fancy restaurant and then try to slide out the 3rd row in an evening dress (well I know you wouldn't be in the dress), or a suit, without letting the valet get a first class view of your backside, your thinning hairline, or down your dress (again, I'm certain it wouldn't be your dress)--not to mention that when you step out of a car all you need to do is button your jacket, whereas, if you're clambering out of the 'way back', you're going to be all rumpled. I think extended travel on the 2nd row might suffice (couldn't slide it all the way back, I don't think). Alternatively, making the seats a no-cost delete might end up being a little profit center for Ford, as they would probably increase their gross. Edited March 17, 2008 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 It's an interesting test, maybe, but an apt one, IMO. You want to pull up at a fancy restaurant and then try to slide out the 3rd row in an evening dress (well I know you wouldn't be in the dress), or a suit, without letting the valet get a first class view of your backside, your thinning hairline, or down your dress (again, I'm certain it wouldn't be your dress)--not to mention that when you step out of a car all you need to do is button your jacket, whereas, if you're clambering out of the 'way back', you're going to be all rumpled. I think extended travel on the 2nd row might suffice (couldn't slide it all the way back, I don't think). Alternatively, making the seats a no-cost delete might end up being a little profit center for Ford, as they would probably increase their gross. The car's appearance would be dramatically effected by the need to accomodate a 3rd seat, so either design it into the final body or you leave it like the concept and keep the back end cut down. BTW, HERE are photos of the test mule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 It's an interesting test, maybe, but an apt one, IMO. You want to pull up at a fancy restaurant and then try to slide out the 3rd row in an evening dress (well I know you wouldn't be in the dress), or a suit, without letting the valet get a first class view of your backside, your thinning hairline, or down your dress (again, I'm certain it wouldn't be your dress)--not to mention that when you step out of a car all you need to do is button your jacket, whereas, if you're clambering out of the 'way back', you're going to be all rumpled. I think extended travel on the 2nd row might suffice (couldn't slide it all the way back, I don't think). Alternatively, making the seats a no-cost delete might end up being a little profit center for Ford, as they would probably increase their gross. Like the sliding second seat thought with small jumpers as 3rd row if necess, lets face it most 3rd row seats are token anyways, hell 99 % of the Explorers we sell are sans rear seats at customers request... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 The car's appearance would be dramatically effected by the need to accomodate a 3rd seat, so either design it into the final body or you leave it like the concept and keep the back end cut down. BTW, HERE are photos of the test mule. 1) I dispute that assertion. Granted you were at the show, but you weren't in the vehicle, nor do you know Ford's design parameters for 2nd and 3rd row accommodation in the production vehicle. 2) That's just the cooling mule. It is doubtful that there is anything of the remotest consequence in the Freestyle half of that thing. In fact, it could well be one of the Flex mules refitted for MKT duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I don't think the MKT would have to be substantially modified to accomodate a third row. If you've seen the Flex in person, you'd notice the roofline isn't THAT high in relation to the floor, and I'm certain, with a little tweaking, the MKT could easily sling a 2-seat bench back there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) In fact, there's a still you can grab from one of the Bold Moves videos that shows the MKT in schematic profile with a 3rd row. I'm not going to go dig for it. You can take my word for it that it's there. Edited March 17, 2008 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) The Flex is low and long, and boxy with almost ALL of the rear compartment dedicated to seating. The MKT ditched the rear compartment for that raked hatchback so there is no room back there to accommodate a rear seat. They can preserve the shape but it must stretch and grow more vertical (think MKX). Actually, the MKX and the Aviator concept had a similar concept to production transition. Edited March 17, 2008 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I hope it doesn't change the basic design much. I see the need for a 3rd row, but I also love the notchback. Ford design has been very good lately so I'm hopeful what they come up with will still be nice looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I hope it doesn't change the basic design much. I see the need for a 3rd row, but I also love the notchback. Ford design has been very good lately so I'm hopeful what they come up with will still be nice looking. If I remember rightly, wasn't Mullaly TOTALLY against a concept car that would look NOTHING like the production version..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 The MKT ditched the rear compartment for that raked hatchback so there is no room back there to accommodate a rear seat. They can preserve the shape but it must stretch and grow more vertical (think MKX). And your basis for saying this is what, exactly? Because the MKT concept is 6" longer than the Flex on about a 3" longer WB. I could do a bunch of photochops to illustrate my point, but I think it's been made: http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=27500 http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_di...&make_id=92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Yeah.... SOOOOO MUCH changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Yeah! Ford is going to invest in a niche vehicle instead of something practical! :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Yeah.... SOOOOO MUCH changed. Believe me Richard, when they release the MKT in 2021 and it's a 3-row vehicle, I'll illustrate the difference for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Believe me Richard, when they release the MKT in 2021 and it's a 3-row vehicle, I'll illustrate the difference for you. When the release the MKT in 2021? Sure. You bet. I'll be waiting. But what about the MKT they're launching NEXT YEAR? I'm still trying to figure out how a longer vehicle than the Flex, with a 3" longer wheelbase will need to get even -===longer===- to accommodate 3 rows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Yeah.... SOOOOO MUCH changed. I loved the rear pillar on the Aviator concept. If only they had brought that version to production. However maybe I'm the only one, but I do like the front end on the MKX and its 60's design cues. From what I understand, that design path is closed and this will be the last we see of the 60's influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Yeah! Ford is going to invest in a niche vehicle instead of something practical! :happy feet: I know! They're totally doing =nothing= with the F150 and blowing all their money on Lincoln!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I know! They're totally doing =nothing= with the F150 and blowing all their money on Lincoln!! How about designing a "people mover" that can move cargo with the people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 When the release the MKT in 2021? Sure. You bet. I'll be waiting. But what about the MKT they're launching NEXT YEAR? I'm still trying to figure out how a longer vehicle than the Flex, with a 3" longer wheelbase will need to get even -===longer===- to accommodate 3 rows. Yeah, just like the MKZ would be an '09 ready in September. Sorry, this is the 3RD time a delayed intro spoiled my new car plans. Expect the MKT no later than January 2010. Again, I'll be here to be proven wrong so call me out when I am and I'll admit it. The swept back hatchback cuts in on headroom as opposed to the much more vertical Flex. It's not about length, it's about the roof line. They can massage it a few or so inches to make it more practicle. In the case of the MKX, they simply changed the window to be more practicle, there was never a seat back there. If the MKT stays 5-seats, then expect the window to be changed and not much else (just like the MKX). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Yeah, just like the MKZ would be an '09 ready in September. Sorry, this is the 3RD time a delayed intro spoiled my new car plans. Expect the MKT no later than January 2010. Again, I'll be here to be proven wrong so call me out when I am and I'll admit it. The swept back hatchback cuts in on headroom as opposed to the much more vertical Flex. It's not about length, it's about the roof line. They can massage it a few or so inches to make it more practicle. In the case of the MKX, they simply changed the window to be more practicle, there was never a seat back there. If the MKT stays 5-seats, then expect the window to be changed and not much else (just like the MKX). Yeah. A 4 month delay on the MKZ = a 1 year delay on the MKT. Sure. You bet. The MKT concept is shorter than the production MKT, as is typical for concept cars, but do not expect major changes to the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAC_Sparky Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 When the release the MKT in 2021? Sure. You bet. I'll be waiting. But what about the MKT they're launching NEXT YEAR? I'm still trying to figure out how a longer vehicle than the Flex, with a 3" longer wheelbase will need to get even -===longer===- to accommodate 3 rows. Stretching the wheelbase in a flex plant is relatively easy. The vehicle is built on a different pallet ( a given ), the underbody ladder is in sections and welded together. Add 3" to the center section, there's your 3". Front structure, rear structure. Same. It's not like you have to redesign the whole shebang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I'm just saying I don't think the MKT needs to be =longer=. Not that it's impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Yeah. A 4 month delay on the MKZ = a 1 year delay on the MKT. Sure. You bet. The MKT concept is shorter than the production MKT, as is typical for concept cars, but do not expect major changes to the rear. Ford hasn't green lighted the MKT yet, where did you get your date from? You need at least 1.5 years to go from green light to dealerships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Ford hasn't green lighted the MKT yet, where did you get your date from? You need at least 1.5 years to go from green light to dealerships. Are you the guy that just posted links to the MKT mule? MKT got the greenlight ages ago. It has been referred to obliquely for over a year now. Sketches of it are in the Bold Moves video from 2006. It was at the 2006 SOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Are you the guy that just posted links to the MKT mule? MKT got the greenlight ages ago. It has been referred to obliquely for over a year now. Sketches of it are in the Bold Moves video from 2006. It was at the 2006 SOT. MKT has been on board the Flex program since day one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 (edited) Greenlighting comes only when they have finalized the production version which is still going infront of focus groups. That means they still have scheduling flexibility, but in either case, Greenlighting the Flex came VERY late in its development, same with the MKS. The MKS was not greenlit until 6 months after the concept was unveiled in Detroit. Development is not the same as Greenlighting. Edited March 18, 2008 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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