2008 MKS First Encounter

[Michael Reynolds]

same steering wheel buttons as the lowly fords? bad move. cheesy.

 

Don't ever step foot in an Infiniti, Cadillac, Lexus or Acura. You won't be happy.

[timmm55]

What, exactly, does a $50K 'near luxury' car say about a person?

 

 

What does an old Crown Vic say about a person?

[Edstock]

What does an old Crown Vic say about a person?

Depends on the person. It might say things like, "my owner slides down the fire-pole head-first", or "I hate it when he forgets his Depends"

[silvrsvt]

Well, it is a Taurus...

 

Just like the E30 is a Camry

Just like the A4 is a VW Golf

Just like the TC is a beloved Panther

 

You seriously don't have a clue do you ?

[fbmphil]

Where was this? What was it? At a dealer?, part of an event? Looks like you guys are at a strip mall.

 

Pre-production test fleets, it's how Ford accumulates real world mileage on these vehicles before launch. I'm guessing it's how they're striving to better the launches of new product.

[JETSOLVER]

Borg, have you any thoughts comparing it to the new CTS? I am in line for a V, and I so very much want the Blue Oval to come up with a reason for me to wait or lease or something. Because that new CTS is a pretty good car, much better than the last, but no Infinity G37.

[Edstock]

Because that new CTS is a pretty good car, much better than the last, but no Infinity G37.

Well according to what it did at the Nurburgring, you sure are right, the CTS-V is one hell of a lot faster than the Infintiti G37. The G37 is no CTS-V, not even close. Nice all-round tourer, but slow, compared to the V.

[JETSOLVER]

Well according to what it did at the Nurburgring, you sure are right, the CTS-V is one hell of a lot faster than the Infintiti G37. The G37 is no CTS-V, not even close. Nice all-round tourer, but slow, compared to the V.

 

 

Yea, I didn't think it appropriate for this board, but I had er, a physical reaction to that bit of news and video. I can't wait to stomp some Vettes with it. Maybe a 911 owner(most don't have a clue what the car can do), and maybe even a GT500 if things went right.

 

I guess I should have called for an apples to apples comparison. Base car to base car, the Infinity is a much nicer place to spend time I suspect.That is based on no real driving time, just car show research, and a brief cross town in a G sedan, plus driving the last V for about 400 mountain miles. But the Caddy has now redefined American luxury, and Lincoln has to play or carve a NEW place, not just hanging around the old.

 

Again, I achingly want a SVT version of the MKS, but I just don't see it.

 

Mr. Coletti, paging Dr. Coletti!!!

[Edstock]

A tuner version of an EB MKS is probably 18 months away, as a guess. If there's an AWD transmission that can take it, there's no reason they couldn't pull 500+ hp.

[Blueblood]

What does an old Crown Vic say about a person?

 

It says they are still loyal to Ford even though they re-design some of their cars once every 30 years.

 

Stop attacking the CV's and their drivers and go after the company who builds cars that are 30 years old. Ford is to blame and nobody else.

[RichardJensen]

But the Caddy has now redefined American luxury, and Lincoln has to play or carve a NEW place, not just hanging around the old.

Let's stop for a minute.... And, please, do not think I'm attempting to minimize Cadillac's accomplishments--rather, this is a look at the future of Cadillac and how Lincoln is positioning itself opposite Cadillac.

 

Is setting a record for lapping the Nurburgring really a "luxury" feature?

 

It's impressive, to be sure, but is it necessarily something that is going to appeal outside the "M5" crowd? And will it necessarily appeal to the M5/AMG crowd? Or will they continue to buy their BMWs & Benzes and turn their nose up at the upstart CTS-V?

 

By contrast, the MKS does not march to the beat of the German luxury sedans. It is, rather unashamedly, a pure luxury play. Power is 'sufficient' as Rolls Royce used to say, not overwhelming, but the focus of the MKS is on presence and accommodations, not on performance.

 

===

 

Now to the question of sustainability: Cadillac spent a fortune on the Sigma platform, and launched 3 vehicles off it. Had all 3 been international successes, the platform might be sustainable.

 

Instead the vehicles have failed to sell well outside the US and within the US only the CTS has sold well enough to justify its continued existence.

 

The question then is, what happens to Sigma? By all accounts it's a lame-duck platform, destined to be replaced by Zeta.

 

And if that's the case, it cannot happen without compromises, and I fear that GM aimed too high in their attempt to reposition Cadillac, with the result being that the new CTS-V will end up the swan song for GM's "beat the Germans at their own game" efforts with Cadillac.

 

I suspect that tightening fuel economy regs and the necessity of platform sharing with Chevrolet and Holden will turn Cadillac, within 5 years or so, into a shadow of its lofty aspirations.

 

===

 

Lincoln, on the other hand, has been given rather modest goals, a modest budget, and a rather organic growth strategy.

 

Short term, it has made Ford and Lincoln the laughingstock of the internet 'bench racer' community, but long term it is a strategy that has a shot at working.

 

Lincoln's strategy is based on the assumption that they have a shot at gaining the loyalty of people who are looking for a luxurious ride, rather than a sports car with two extra doors hard leather and complicated gizmos. Can it work? I think so. I don't think that the market for vehicles like the Continental ever disappeared. I think car companies got so busy looking over each other's shoulders that they assumed that everybody wants a BMW 5-Series.

[armadamaster]

Yeah. You could buy two Honda Accords, Toyota Camries, or Ford Fusions. You could probably squeak out three Focuses.

 

At that price level, it's not just about how much 'car' you can buy. It's about what that car says about you and how that car makes you feel.

What, exactly, does a $50K 'near luxury' car say about a person?

 

Heh....if it's the MKTaurus we're talking about, it just screams "Nobody would wait on me at the Lexus dealership".

 

Although that MKTaurus in the red looks current Mitsu Galant-esque to me for just a brief moment for some reason. :do what:

[Edstock]

Although that MKTaurus in the red looks current Mitsu Galant-esque to me for just a brief moment for some reason. :do what:

Heh, brain damage can do that.

[P71_CrownVic]

How is the S a near luxury car?

How is it not?

[armadamaster]

Heh, brain damage can do that.

 

 

Oops, here I thought brain damage netted you a visual design job at Ford.

[P71_CrownVic]

Oops, here I thought brain damage netted you a visual design job at Ford.

No...that would be a 'permanent vegetative state'. That cab only be the logical explanation for abortions like the Focus, MKR, MKFlexible, Super Duty, F-150, and Flexible.

[silvrsvt]

No...that would be a 'permanent vegetative state'. That cab only be the logical explanation for abortions like the Focus, MKR, MKFlexible, Super Duty, F-150, and Flexible.

 

:blah: :blah:

 

There has to be something seriously wrong with you boy to keep coming here...guess momma didn't give you any attention so any any attention you can draw to yourself is why you infest this place with your drivel

[P71_CrownVic]

:blah: :blah:

 

There has to be something seriously wrong with you boy to keep coming here...guess momma didn't give you any attention so any any attention you can draw to yourself is why you infest this place with your drivel

[V8 Ford]

What, exactly, does a $50K 'near luxury' car say about a person?

It says that they'd rather pay 47K for a loaded AWD MKS than 46K for a base 528xi, 43K for a base A6 3.2, or 53K for a base E350 4matic. BTW, the loaded MKS is bigger, more powerful and has more options than any of those cars. The fully loaded versions of those cars increase the price gap and don't offer much that the MKS doesn't, save for a more sport oriented ride and chassis.

Edited May 17, 2008 by V8 Ford

[silvrsvt]

It says they are still loyal to Ford even though they re-design some of their cars once every 30 years.

 

Stop attacking the CV's and their drivers and go after the company who builds cars that are 30 years old. Ford is to blame and nobody else.

 

 

The only reason they are around still is that the supposedly make money on them, mostly due to Ford putting very little in the way of updates into them during the same time period. The vast majority of them wind up in fleet usage, where little change is a good thing since you can transfer over your old stuff into new cars at little to no cost. Even though the market is slowly drying up at the same time. Its not stupid considering its a business decision, but they are going away no matter what, just because they can't meet the changes in safety requirements and changes in the market place.

 

If Ford seriously updated them, they need to change the whole business plan so they can make money on them, which would mean a wholly new car that would sell in the retail section with a totally different name, instead of being flushed out into Taxi, Cop and Limo fleets like the Panthers are now.

[suv_guy_19]

How is it not?

 

 

It is designed as a luxury car, and you say it isn't one. Your the one that has to prove your assertion, not me.

[Edstock]

It says that they'd rather pay 47K for a loaded AWD MKS than 46K for a base 528xi, 43K for a base A6 3.2, or 53K for a base E350 4matic. BTW, the loaded MKS is bigger, more powerful and has more options than any of those cars. The fully loaded versions of those cars increase the price gap and don't offer much that the MKS doesn't, save for a more sport oriented ride and chassis.

Yes indeed.

 

The MK S is a luxury car; compared to it, the Town Car is "near luxury' as are the base 5-series, A-6 and M-B, when ride, NVH and amenities are considered.

[96 Pony]

I have to see it in person. I'm waiting for the eco-boost as it is.

 

Based on the pix I still love the styling of the exterior. I wish the grill went up more into the hood, ala the '76-77 Grand Prix's but otherwise, no complaints whatsoever.

 

Interior - it looks cheap to me based on these posted pix but again, pictures don't always tell the whole story. So I am crossing my fingers and hoping I am wrong :huh:

[JETSOLVER]

Let's stop for a minute.... And, please, do not think I'm attempting to minimize Cadillac's accomplishments--rather, this is a look at the future of Cadillac and how Lincoln is positioning itself opposite Cadillac.

 

Is setting a record for lapping the Nurburgring really a "luxury" feature?

 

Nope, but it sure rubs off on a brand, just look at how the "halo" of the way back E34 built a legend that sustains the taxicab 3 and 5 series today and of course the fact that Benz took AMG in house to make sure some of that fairie dust sprinkles on the lessor models.

 

It's impressive, to be sure, but is it necessarily something that is going to appeal outside the "M5" crowd? And will it necessarily appeal to the M5/AMG crowd? Or will they continue to buy their BMWs & Benzes and turn their nose up at the upstart CTS-V?

I am of the belief that in the same way that SVT made some people look twice at Ford, the V will perhaps create a new group of us "middle" people (age, finances, etc.) that the domestics have not had for a decade or so. I'm not aspirational, I just want to no longer have to make excuses for my domestic choices.

 

By contrast, the MKS does not march to the beat of the German luxury sedans. It is, rather unashamedly, a pure luxury play. Power is 'sufficient' as Rolls Royce used to say, not overwhelming, but the focus of the MKS is on presence and accommodations, not on performance.

 

Then I hope they get it right this time, but I have reservations. Not least because of the initial report in this thread.

 

===

 

Now to the question of sustainability: Cadillac spent a fortune on the Sigma platform, and launched 3 vehicles off it. Had all 3 been international successes, the platform might be sustainable.

 

Instead the vehicles have failed to sell well outside the US and within the US only the CTS has sold well enough to justify its continued existence.

 

Edit, found this here

"Cadillac saw global growth with sales increases outside of North America last year, thanks to a 45 percent increase in the Europe, a 42 percent climb in the Latin America, Africa and Middle East region, and an impressive 106 percent hike in the Asia Pacific region."

 

The question then is, what happens to Sigma? By all accounts it's a lame-duck platform, destined to be replaced by Zeta.

 

And if that's the case, it cannot happen without compromises, and I fear that GM aimed too high in their attempt to reposition Cadillac, with the result being that the new CTS-V will end up the swan song for GM's "beat the Germans at their own game" efforts with Cadillac.

 

I suspect that tightening fuel economy regs and the necessity of platform sharing with Chevrolet and Holden will turn Cadillac, within 5 years or so, into a shadow of its lofty aspirations.

Hmm, you may be right, but Caddy sales are at least finding new(or perhaps just different?) buyers, more than I think Lincoln can say. It is a shame that the LS was a victim of so much that went sideways for Ford. I often wonder how that program might have turned out with the sort of resources GM has thrown at the CTS over now two full generations. And apparently, at least a third.

 

===

 

Lincoln, on the other hand, has been given rather modest goals, a modest budget, and a rather organic growth strategy.

 

Short term, it has made Ford and Lincoln the laughingstock of the internet 'bench racer' community, but long term it is a strategy that has a shot at working.

 

Hmm, mediocrity as a mission statement. How very Ford of them. I think its a bad idea for a company in this much trouble to just hang on, and I am taking my $ elsewhere. I have noticed that I do not generally represent a very large % of the car buying public, but I sure do meet a lot of them. And they have NO IDEA what Lincoln is, was, or will be. A big job, me thinks. Much bigger than MODEST.

 

Lincoln's strategy is based on the assumption that they have a shot at gaining the loyalty of people who are looking for a luxurious ride, rather than a sports car with two extra doors hard leather and complicated gizmos. Can it work? I think so. I don't think that the market for vehicles like the Continental ever disappeared. I think car companies got so busy looking over each other's shoulders that they assumed that everybody wants a BMW 5-Series.

 

Perhaps there was a reason for that.

 

Please understand Richard, I am not trying to be confrontational, I really appreciate the thought you put into your posts, and the idea of discussion as a two way street.

 

I just want so much to see Ford regain itself, and there is much to make me doubt that.

 

So I read here, and post a bit, and hope to find light at the end of the tunnel.

 

And dammit, I want to buy a Ford, I don't need to buy what they offer.

Edited May 17, 2008 by JETSOLVER

[wescoent]

The Lincoln MKS is the long overdue successor to this car: