2008 MKS First Encounter

[FordBuyer]

So you think it's better to delay those vehicles for a year or longer waiting for the powertrains?

 

 

Not I. Get them out as soon as possible. Better to have the Fusion out three years than wait for new 2.5 L I4 and PIP 3 L V6.

[mettech]

Considering I took those pictures I think I can say whether or not the interior is crap, everything is cheap looking and cheap feeling, you'll find out when they show up on dealer lots.

 

I guess it's a good Accord competitor, the Accord's interior is much much better though, I have to wonder if those comparing it to German luxury cars have ever been in one of those cars!! It's like comparing a Rolex to a Casio.

 

Ford needs to decide who they are going to target with Lincoln, all the gizmo's in the world won't matter if the interior looks like crap.

 

And yea, I haven't driven one either, but at least in competitor's cars I don't have a drive wheel where my feet should be because they aren't wrong wheel drive, and that's a huge part of a fine luxury automobile, as it also greatly improves styling. FWD cars suffer from the huge front overhang/wheels to close to the A-pillar under bite look.

 

I would have hoped Ford would come out with a real luxury car on a RWD chassis with a beautiful interior, the MKS sounds overpriced for what is essentially a re-skinned Taurus.

 

 

Unfortunately I agree.

 

I've been in side of the MKS and I thought it looked and felt cheap. I think the Malibu interior looks and feels better than the MKS.

 

However, I could overlook some of the poor details if it drives OK. I like the outside of the MKs.

 

G.M. will be hard to beat with the new CTS, G8, and even the Malibu.

[theoldwizard]

Same feeling. Plus I'm not going to shell out that kind of money without a V8 (which the MKS could have had) or a V8 "like" performance (EcoBoost).

 

Of course this is now standard procedure for "The Way Forward".

 

Introduce a new vehicle and wait for the Powetrain guys to catch up. Other examples: 2007/2008 Zephyr/MKZ, 2008/2009 Escape, 2009/2010 F150. I feel sorry for the "early adopters", especially if they bought their vehicle. Resale price shot to heck be really "new" (not warmed over) Powertrains 1 year later.

So you think it's better to delay those vehicles for a year or longer waiting for the powertrains?

For my money, YES !

 

But, I'm only 1 customer. The real question is, how does the American buying public feel when they buy a new car only to find out 12 months later it can be purchased with a more powerful and/or more fuel efficient powertrain ?

 

If Mullaly and Farley are correct, the "new car smell" and all of the new widgets will confuse the buyer enough so that they will not realize their resale value has gone down the toilet.

[NickF1011]

So you think it's better to delay those vehicles for a year or longer waiting for the powertrains?

 

For my money, YES !

 

But, I'm only 1 customer. The real question is, how does the American buying public feel when they buy a new car only to find out 12 months later it can be purchased with a more powerful and/or more fuel efficient powertrain ?

 

If Mullaly and Farley are correct, the "new car smell" and all of the new widgets will confuse the buyer enough so that they will not realize their resale value has gone down the toilet.

 

More powerful yes. More efficient? Only in very few cases. With gas prices the way they are, I don't see any problem with launching the optional engines late.

 

As for the argument for how the buying public would feel missing out on it. Ask yourself this: Would they feel more annoyed that they missed out on the latest powertrain on their brand-new vehicle or if they missed out on a brand-new powertrain, interior, exterior, and everything else that goes along with a refresh? Because by delaying the refresh of everything else until the powertrain is ready, you are forcing people to buy "old" new vehicles even longer.

[akirby]

But, I'm only 1 customer. The real question is, how does the American buying public feel when they buy a new car only to find out 12 months later it can be purchased with a more powerful and/or more fuel efficient powertrain ?

 

The vast majority of MKS buyers don't care about HP in the first place. It's a luxury car, not a sports sedan. Anyone who cares about it (like you) already knows that EcoBoost is coming next year and will wait for it, or decide they don't need it.

 

Better to have 40K sales in the bank now if the rest of the car is ready. With all the options and modest sales goals plus the fact that it's a shared platform should translate to big profits.

[wescoent]

The vast majority of MKS buyers don't care about HP in the first place. It's a luxury car, not a sports sedan. Anyone who cares about it (like you) already knows that EcoBoost is coming next year and will wait for it, or decide they don't need it.

 

Better to have 40K sales in the bank now if the rest of the car is ready. With all the options and modest sales goals plus the fact that it's a shared platform should translate to big profits.

 

I strongly agree. One of the MKS's merits is its fuel-efficient engine for that type of car.

 

To be perfectly honest, in terms of development new powertrains, Ford ought to consider a small, efficient, and premium motor. Perhaps a revival of the Duratec 2.5, only with the Cyclone architecture. 225hp or so with direct injection. It would be a very nice base engine for the MKZ and MKS, and would return impressive mileage numbers, even more so if combined with a hybrid system. It should be engineered for superior NVH and able to rev without sounding like it's going to fall apart.

 

270hp is plenty for this car, and in this more fuel-consumption conscious age, we ought to look into smaller engine options, like they have in Europe. I would certainly look into a 30mpg V6 hybrid MKZ.

[FordBuyer]

I strongly agree. One of the MKS's merits is its fuel-efficient engine for that type of car.

 

To be perfectly honest, in terms of development new powertrains, Ford ought to consider a small, efficient, and premium motor. Perhaps a revival of the Duratec 2.5, only with the Cyclone architecture. 225hp or so with direct injection. It would be a very nice base engine for the MKZ and MKS, and would return impressive mileage numbers, even more so if combined with a hybrid system. It should be engineered for superior NVH and able to rev without sounding like it's going to fall apart.

 

270hp is plenty for this car, and in this more fuel-consumption conscious age, we ought to look into smaller engine options, like they have in Europe. I would certainly look into a 30mpg V6 hybrid MKZ.

 

 

Guys on here who are lamenting high hp engines from Ford are blowing in the wind. A couple years ago I would have only looked at V6 Fusion and would have ignored I4. Same goes for MKS. If MKS was offered with optional V8, I would have ignored the present V6. But fast forward to $4 gas and I4 would be my choice of engine for Fusion and V6 my choice of engine for MKS. Times change and so do engine choices.

[exploder48]

Unfortunately I agree.

 

I've been in side of the MKS and I thought it looked and felt cheap. I think the Malibu interior looks and feels better than the MKS.

 

However, I could overlook some of the poor details if it drives OK. I like the outside of the MKs.

 

G.M. will be hard to beat with the new CTS, G8, and even the Malibu.

How in the world can you compare a Malibu to an MKS? The MKS is a luxury vehicle, the Malibu is a mass-market car which, although somewhat appealing, can come nowhere near a Lincoln!!! The target market for the Lincoln is Infiniti, Lexus, Cadillac etc. The target market for the Malibu is definitely NOT the same. Stop complaining about something which has no relevance. I've seen and driven the MKS,and your comparison is absolutely laughable. Drive it,check out the technology and the ride, then tell me it's like a Malibu.

Edited May 23, 2008 by exploder48

[ANTAUS]

Something to consider, many I-4's today are boasting power that V6's from a decade ago were sporting, just how some V's now are boasting power, from V8's of a decade ago.

 

Well, except in the case of the Panther's where it's V8 engine, is giving you V6 power

[Blueblood]

I strongly agree. One of the MKS's merits is its fuel-efficient engine for that type of car.

 

To be perfectly honest, in terms of development new powertrains, Ford ought to consider a small, efficient, and premium motor. Perhaps a revival of the Duratec 2.5, only with the Cyclone architecture. 225hp or so with direct injection. It would be a very nice base engine for the MKZ and MKS, and would return impressive mileage numbers, even more so if combined with a hybrid system. It should be engineered for superior NVH and able to rev without sounding like it's going to fall apart.

 

270hp is plenty for this car, and in this more fuel-consumption conscious age, we ought to look into smaller engine options, like they have in Europe. I would certainly look into a 30mpg V6 hybrid MKZ.

 

The MKS is fuel efficient??? Isn't it only rate at 17/24? That's terrible at 4 dollar + gas prices..

[Deanh]

The MKS is fuel efficient??? Isn't it only rate at 17/24? That's terrible at 4 dollar + gas prices..

and more than competitive with the vehicles whom class it is targeting.........its a LARGE car blue....

[Ralph Greene]

I imagine the Eco Boost engine for the MKS will be part of a $10,000 package anyway, so most of you wouldn't even consider it if it came out now. KInda like the difference between the V6 and V8 LS and it's packages when it came out. I don't even see the point in the Eco Boost engine in the car. Why waste that HP on a heavy car? Maybe just so they can say they have a Turbo charged, reasonably economical, powerful luxury car same as BMW has. It's just a bragging rights thing.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Ralph Greene

[papilgee4evaeva]

Why waste that HP on a heavy car? Maybe just so they can say they have a Turbo charged, reasonably economical, powerful luxury car same as BMW has. It's just a bragging rights thing.

 

So it can move more easily? Imagine BMW putting their inline-6 back in US-bound cars. It would be :hysterical: all the way back to Munich by the press and consumers alike.

 

Going from the D30 to the D35 worked wonders for the D3 platform-mates as far as performance, refinement, and fuel economy (!).

Edited May 23, 2008 by papilgee4evaeva

[Blueblood]

and more than competitive with the vehicles whom class it is targeting.........its a LARGE car blue....

 

You know when I think about it, anyone that can afford cars like the MKS don't care about spending 20 bucks more a week on gas, I know I wouldn't.

[Deanh]

You know when I think about it, anyone that can afford cars like the MKS don't care about spending 20 bucks more a week on gas, I know I wouldn't.

yupperz...whats scaring me is the panic being created by gas prices...whats next V Twin ecoboosts in vehicles the size of town cars?

[Blueblood]

yupperz...whats scaring me is the panic being created by gas prices...whats next V Twin ecoboosts in vehicles the size of town cars?

 

Yea, our government needs to stop this ridiculous speculation which is the cause of something like 40% of oil prices I read.

 

And no matter what, I'll drive my Mustang, maybe not as much, but you'll have to pry the steering wheel out of my cold dead hands!!

[JETSOLVER]

The vast majority of MKS buyers don't care about HP in the first place. It's a luxury car, not a sports sedan. Anyone who cares about it (like you) already knows that EcoBoost is coming next year and will wait for it, or decide they don't need it.

 

Better to have 40K sales in the bank now if the rest of the car is ready. With all the options and modest sales goals plus the fact that it's a shared platform should translate to big profits.

 

 

So, the assumption from us is that there is a VAST majority of MKS buyers. The discussion about this is that there is a ready built, slide in market for this car. I question that assumption. Apparently, so do you, by your suggestion of modest sales goals, sort of like hiz'honer, Richard suggests. Is this enough of a good return on resources? And is that sort of thinking enough to prevent calling the loan?

 

 

How in the world can you compare a Malibu to an MKS? The MKS is a luxury vehicle, the Malibu is a mass-market car which, although somewhat appealing, can come nowhere near a Lincoln!!! The target market for the Lincoln is Infiniti, Lexus, Cadillac etc. The target market for the Malibu is definitely NOT the same. Stop complaining about something which has no relevance. I've seen and driven the MKS,and your comparison is absolutely laughable. Drive it,check out the technology and the ride, then tell me it's like a Malibu.

 

 

So, knowing that about 10 yrs. ago, Audi spent the better part of a BILLION $ on just switches, and knowing that they are the industry standard for interiors that make an owner feel good, does this still have no relevance? The touchey feeley thing is the single biggest part of acquiring new buyers in a new car. Or is the target still just holding on to the remaining old ones? PS, that Malibu is one that I have driven, and suggested to friends that they should compare against the 500/Taurus. One bought the Fusion, more bought the Accord(4). Wonder what that means? And I am in the chase for the new CTS. As a Ford fan, they are going to have to offer something that isn't already in the market to me.

 

I imagine the Eco Boost engine for the MKS will be part of a $10,000 package anyway, so most of you wouldn't even consider it if it came out now. KInda like the difference between the V6 and V8 LS and it's packages when it came out. I don't even see the point in the Eco Boost engine in the car. Why waste that HP on a heavy car? Maybe just so they can say they have a Turbo charged, reasonably economical, powerful luxury car same as BMW has. It's just a bragging rights thing.

 

 

The old way of introducing new good stuff in a premium pkg. might be going down an old unimproved road. I suggest that offering the Eco-boost, ne. Twin Force in everything at once might make a difference. The lack of V8 power in the LS did have a difference in sales, if one observes the few remaining ones on the road. The market for this car is one that turns them over on lease(company or small business) on a pretty regular and consistant timetable. Or we have to believe that the anticipated and market savy shift is immanent. I wonder at the large number of people who are tied to a large SUV (the shift in fuel prices is still fresh) and don't want to take a bath on that purchase (recall the spate of advice to buy not lease a few years ago) might hinder the impulse buy. Loyalty is a big thing here, and I wonder how much loyalty Ford(Lincoln) has to trade on.

 

PS

 

this is the reason I still meander the board, good, open discussion about the Company and folks who believe.

 

Thank You.

[akirby]

So, the assumption from us is that there is a VAST majority of MKS buyers. The discussion about this is that there is a ready built, slide in market for this car. I question that assumption. Apparently, so do you, by your suggestion of modest sales goals

 

What's wrong with 40K "modest" sales that make money and bring conquest sales to Lincoln?

[JETSOLVER]

What's wrong with 40K "modest" sales that make money and bring conquest sales to Lincoln?

 

 

If it happens, and if they are conquest sales(though one assumes that based on the last few years, most would HAVE to be conquest), is 40 000 units (I suspect that's pretty generous) enough to further the brand, enough to further find the $ to finish the job engineering and marketing wise(please don't lets even pretend they get it right the first time, its just not likely based on the last few generations of product), and enough to create a sustainable follow on generation of Lincoln buyers?

 

That seems an awful lot of assumption in a market that Ford and Lincoln are playing catch up in. Mid level or entry level luxury mid size cars are a buck a dozen, and the loyalty those Japanese premium brands has is one VERY large hill to climb.

 

Again, I wish them good luck, but wow, this is a big project, and I wonder about the resources committed.

[Edstock]

this is a big project, and I wonder about the resources committed.

Well, it's a D-3 derivative, and it seems that Ford has committed sufficient resources, considering the D-3 is the platform for Taurus/MK S, Flex and maybe a Lincoln — but that's just my opinion.

 

You might recall the massive chassis change from the 500 to the Taurus with the D-3 chassis. The chassis was changed from the firewall forward, changing from a sub-frame that carried the suspension and the engine transmission to direct engine and transmission mountings on the chassis, leaving the suspension by itself on a sub-frame.

 

So, it seems that Ford will commit whatever resources are necessary to produce a superior product.

 

Of course, there are limitations, which is why we have to wait for EcoBoost and the Ford/Getrag transmissions, but they will arrive soon.

 

Again, it's just my opinion, but there may be more of a market than might be apparent. Time will tell.

[armadamaster]

Well, it's a D-3 derivative, and it seems that Ford has committed sufficient resources, considering the D-3 is the platform for Taurus/MK S, Flex and maybe a Lincoln — but that's just my opinion.

 

You might recall the massive chassis change from the 500 to the Taurus with the D-3 chassis. The chassis was changed from the firewall forward, changing from a sub-frame that carried the suspension and the engine transmission to direct engine and transmission mountings on the chassis, leaving the suspension by itself on a sub-frame.

 

So, it seems that Ford will commit whatever resources are necessary to get anybody to actually buy a D3.

 

Of course, there are limitations, which is why we have to wait for EcoBoost and the Ford/Getrag transmissions, but they will arrive soon.

 

Again, it's just my opinion, but there may be more of a market than might be apparent. Time will tell.

 

Fixed.