The "Enron Loophole"

[mrballsonya]

First off, let me apologize if this seems to be off topic, however I don't think it is. As a Ford employee, much like many of you reading this. I feel that this information is pertinent to Ford Motor staying viable, and to us retaining our good paying jobs. "Be aware dial-uppers", this is a 9 min. streaming video from msnbc.com .

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677#25252591

 

I'm totally aware that Kieth Olbermann seems to be very biased towards Obama. But this goes beyond candidates, this hits the home and the pocketbooks of us all. The only ones benefiting from this "Enron loophole" are the trading speculators and the oil and energy companies. I don't know about you guys? But it makes me sick to think that my hard earned money, is paying for the Ferrari's, yachts and vacation houses; of all theses speculative traders, Washington lobbyists, and oil executives.

 

Our current corporate loving governmental system, MUST be amended. P.A.C'S need to be outlawed, and corporate lobbyists need to be booted out of Washington. The common peoples interests, MUST start taking precedence over high paying corporate lobbyists.

 

The "1980's trickle down economics" theory, just doesn't work for the U.S. anymore. The rich manufacturing corporations, are no longer trickling down their wealth to the U.S. worker. Corporations are trickling down their wealth to countries like India and China. Unlike other "National" Corporations.. i.e. Toyota, Samsung and others. It seems that U.S. Corporations have absolutely NO allegiance to their home Country. As long as the stock holders are happy, and our CEO's are making obscene amounts of money, everything is right in the world.

 

This is not the Country that our founding fathers had envisioned. Their United States was a utopia, A place to be sovereign, A place where freedom was paramount, A place where government worked for the common people, and not against them. A place where someone could work hard, get an education and remove themselves from a pre-determined designation. Our country is no longer this place. I'm fairly certain, that we as a Country are regressing back into a feudalistic, caste type system. Soon all the "good Paying" jobs will be gone, no one will own their home, and we'll all be working for food and sustenance. Who knows? Maybe the next president will revert us even further back in time. Maybe we'll go back to a communal, self sufficient "tribe" economy.

 

What a great Country.... A Country that has become corrupted by the very same things, that enacted a revolution 300 years ago.... taxation without Representation.

 

I know I'm an alarmist. But in this day and age, I just don't see how a U.S. working man can't be. The U.S. economy is currently being dictated by a handful of snot nosed commodities traders, U.S. politicians, and OPEC. Where do we rank in the hierarchy of things?

 

As of now, militarily speaking the U.S. is still the most powerful country in the world. Like anyone in a position of power, If we really wanted something, we would get it. Unfortunately for us, our politicians have been bought and paid for...... and now we're all paying the price. Here's to the great transformation of wealth. :beerchug: , I hope the rich, realize the bed they're making.

 

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Edited June 20, 2008 by mrballsonya

[CD4EMAN]

AMEN brother! We need to start exercising our 2nd amendment rights. Also some very important words in the preamble.

[Dale143]

AMEN brother! We need to start exercising our 2nd amendment rights. Also some very important words in the preamble.

check this out.

 

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move..._im0_mbbl_m.htm

[chelsea]

check this out.

 

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move..._im0_mbbl_m.htm

 

 

What a cool site. Thanx

[mrballsonya]

check this out.

 

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move..._im0_mbbl_m.htm

 

 

Great Site!!!

 

It seems my OPEC accusations, aren't entirely merited. If accurate, that site seems to provide more evidence against this "ridiculous Enron Loophole", than I ever could in a year of my drunk ramblings.

 

It's interesting to see all the various Countries that supply us with our "liquid Crack". According to these figures, it seems that the American People should be more concerned about a steel pipe bursting in Alberta, rather than random violence in the mid east. According to these statistics we should all be kissing Speedy Gonzales' and Bob and Doug McKenzie's ass, rather than the Saudi Royal Family's.

 

As an Oil consumer, I'm glad to see more oil production/ U.S. consumption out of Iraq, but the overall price paid wasn't worth it. This Iraqi oil, is tainted with the blood of thousands of our sons and daughters. To me as a parent, the price of a dead child isn't worth all the oil in the world.

 

I won't even get into the specifics of how much a 2 trillion dollar infusion would've improved the life of the average American citizen. I think most of you can figure that out for yourselves.

 

The Bush administration has been the epitome of a giant shell game. Bush lured us all in, with one year of prosperity(Hope), after that he showed us seven years of how it feels to be a Mark(regret). Bush's agenda was resolute... Make the rich richer and the middle class poorer. This was the only memorable thing that he accomplished in 8 years of governance. His decisions have caused all of us to contribute our savings into his obscenely rich acquaintances bank accounts. Bush's presidency will be reviled only by the richest 5%, to the other 230,000,000, he will go down as one of the worst presidents in our great countries history.

 

Upon Election I'm Hoping that Obama will continue Bush's Imperialistic, Nation building ways. Maybe Obama will find even easier countries to invade, in which " The Oil will pay for the War". What a glorious day that'll be. I just can't wait to hear the premature "mission accomplished" statements from our next president.

 

 

 

HEY!! Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela..... Take Notice. There's a new sheriff in town, watch your back. We want your oil, and we're willing to pay up in blood.

Edited June 24, 2008 by mrballsonya

[Ralph Greene]

Well....Remember that Olberman has his agenda as well. He's not so innocent.

 

It's OK with me to close the so called Enron Loophole, but to me this is much ado about nothing. If this loophole was so lucrative, why did trading bring Enro down?

 

The markets do work, especially over longer periods of time. The speculators will get what they deserve from market forces. There does seem to be some speculator premium in the prices of energy these days, and what that means when it comes out, it will be very painful for the participants. They will lose every dime they made and more. What goes around comes around, loophole or not.

 

There was favored treatment of the trading of sub prime mortages also (liberals wanted to help low income home buyers buy homes)....which helped and encouraged some mortage companies to build whole business around their issuance. But the markets worked, and as the business cycle ended and economy weakened, that market collasped. Energy trading participants will have the same fate when prices collaspe (unless of course they are short the market....which will drive it down even faster).

Edited June 24, 2008 by Ralph Greene

[NickF1011]

Yeah I love it. There's no problem that can't be solved by passing another law. :rolleyes:

[sprinter]

http://www.forbes.com/2008/06/23/crude-bid..._inl_print.html

 

Stratospheric crude oil prices precipitated by speculation are wreaking havoc on the U.S. economy.

 

Based on income tax withholdings data from the Daily Treasury Statement, the wages of all U.S. workers on payrolls were unchanged on a year-over-year basis in the past two weeks (Friday, June 6 through Thursday, June 19) and rose 1.1% year-over-year in the past four weeks (Friday, May 23 through Thursday, June 19). Both of those growth rates are well below the 2.8% year-over-year in May, and they are consistent with an economy that is contracting sharply.

 

As long as oil prices stay above $120 per barrel, the economy is more likely to slow than strengthen, and companies are not likely to announce much float shrink. With real wages falling, large numbers of jobs being shed, gas prices exceeding $4 per gallon almost everywhere and home prices falling about 1% per month nationally, this year is going to be tough for American consumers.

 

Believe it or not, there is plenty of oil in the world. What is in short supply are investors willing to go short oil futures. The open interest on oil futures worldwide is 2.6 million contracts. With oil prices at $135 per barrel, each contract is worth $135,000. To control $135,000 of oil, investors have to put up no more than $10,000.

 

 

But there are two other solutions to the oil crisis.

 

The first is requiring major players in the oil futures market to disclose their total positions of all kinds in crude. Given the importance of oil to the U.S. economy, everyone should be able to know who is going long crude oil in a big way. Institutional owners must report what stocks they own at least semiannually. Why should they not be required to report the amount of crude oil they are long?

 

The second solution is for oil consumers to make a concerted effort to go short oil futures. The U.S. government has been spending $280 million per month, pumping 70,000 barrels of oil per day into salt caverns. Instead of buying oil, why not go short 35,000 contracts monthly at $8,000 per contract, in other words selling high the crude we bought relatively low? What if other major crude oil users also went short oil futures each month? What if the Japanese government, airlines, trucking companies and utilities spent several billion dollars to go short oil futures each month until the oil market came to its senses?

 

It is insane for the world to go broke while oil traders and a handful of gangsters who control their national oil production make huge fortunes.

[Blueblood]

Well....Remember that Olberman has his agenda as well. He's not so innocent.

 

 

WHAT is his "agenda"? To be the only hard hitting true journalist out there?

 

Does he not lie and pander to politicians enough for you????

 

It's OK with me to close the so called Enron Loophole, but to me this is much ado about nothing. If this loophole was so lucrative, why did trading bring Enro down?

 

The markets do work, especially over longer periods of time. The speculators will get what they deserve from market forces. There does seem to be some speculator premium in the prices of energy these days, and what that means when it comes out, it will be very painful for the participants. They will lose every dime they made and more. What goes around comes around, loophole or not.

 

 

BS, even if that was true, what about the millions of people being robbed by these crooks who belong in jail?

 

The money stolen by Enron was never returned, and some of their higher ups are still filthy rich, rigged markets don't and can't work, unless you're on the side of those dong the rigging.

 

There was favored treatment of the trading of sub prime mortages also (liberals wanted to help low income home buyers buy homes)....which helped and encouraged some mortage companies to build whole business around their issuance. But the markets worked, and as the business cycle ended and economy weakened, that market collasped. Energy trading participants will have the same fate when prices collaspe (unless of course they are short the market....which will drive it down even faster).

 

 

Take a wild guess who de-regulated both the energy and mortgage markets.

[Blueblood]

Yeah I love it. There's no problem that can't be solved by passing another law. :rolleyes:

 

Yea, like we should totally get rid of stupid laws like it being illegal to kill people..

[retro-man]

The markets do work, especially over longer periods of time. The speculators will get what they deserve from market forces. There does seem to be some speculator premium in the prices of energy these days, and what that means when it comes out, it will be very painful for the participants. They will lose every dime they made and more. What goes around comes around, loophole or not.

 

There was favored treatment of the trading of sub prime mortages also (liberals wanted to help low income home buyers buy homes)....which helped and encouraged some mortage companies to build whole business around their issuance. But the markets worked, and as the business cycle ended and economy weakened, that market collasped. Energy trading participants will have the same fate when prices collaspe (unless of course they are short the market....which will drive it down even faster).

You're being either disingenuous or naive. You make it sound as if these guys are locked into their investments long-term. As if they have any kind of long-term perspective or interest whatsoever. They're just surfing the market. When they've decided it's time for the oil bubble to pop, they'll hop the next wave (tech stocks, minerals, food, whatever) en-masse. The personal fortunes of the parasitic financial class are in no way endangered by what's going on. On the contrary - they are profiting greatly from it. Even if they kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, they'll still have theirs.

[NickF1011]

Yea, like we should totally get rid of stupid laws like it being illegal to kill people..

 

That is about the most ridiculous response I've ever seen from you. And you've had plenty of ridiculous responses to choose from.

[Ralph Greene]

You're being either disingenuous or naive. You make it sound as if these guys are locked into their investments long-term. As if they have any kind of long-term perspective or interest whatsoever. They're just surfing the market. When they've decided it's time for the oil bubble to pop, they'll hop the next wave (tech stocks, minerals, food, whatever) en-masse. The personal fortunes of the parasitic financial class are in no way endangered by what's going on. On the contrary - they are profiting greatly from it. Even if they kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, they'll still have theirs.

 

I've traded futures contracts, and know how they work. I have never met a futures trader, who takes the speculative side of each trade, who ever made any money long term. What's happening now is they are all looking at what they see as the basic fundamentals....global demand VS global output, unrest re Iran, and hurricane season starting in the Gulf, and they have decided gong long oil is a good bet. So they pile on, allowing producers to get what they want from their sells. So the prices spiral up. They generally believe prices always keep going in a certain direction, until they stop going in that direction. Brilliant trading philosophy.

 

But it will also work the other way also...as fundamentals change from weakening world economy, hurricane season ending, etc. The gamblers will wind up losing their shirts. Like always.

 

Unfortunately....the game they play happens to involve a product we think we can't live without. I am not against making it a little bit tougher to be a speculator. But if you make it too tough, who takes the other side of the trade of the manufacturer hedging his raw material costs, or producer selling his product forward. I'm just saying it's a little more complicated than just blaming speculators who can be about anyone.... local bank, Pension fund, college endowment fund, neighbor, etc.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Ralph Greene