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Flex vs. Travesty


ANTAUS

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you all sound like a bunch of old ladies. bitch, bitch, whine, whine, and bitch again.

 

does anyone here actually go out and drive cars themselves? or, do you just listen to people who get paid to put interesting stuff in a magazine or newspaper article?

 

i can tell p71 has never driven anything but a crown vic. i rode in a few of those turds last weekend in vegas. holy crap! after getting out of a crown vic cab and into a malibu or escape, it's freaking amazing that anyone could say anything but "turd." god awful throwback to the bad old days.

 

quit being lemmings and check them out yourselves. you'd be surprised what you find out when you check out a car in the flesh. get out of your armchair and drive a few cars yourself and see what a wonderful world there is out there.

Edited by theripper
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The buyer who would get a Flex is a trend setter-someone who is always wanting to be different and get the newest thing. First to buy a apple phone, etc.

 

Not true. We bought a Flex because it fit our needs well and my wife liked the interior much better than anything else out there! We don't even have an iPhone, and we definitely aren't trend setters!

 

does anyone here actually go out and drive cars themselves? or, do you just listen to people who get paid to put interesting stuff in a magazine or newspaper article?

 

i can tell p71 has never driven anything but a crown vic. i rode in a few of those turds last weekend in vegas. holy crap! after getting out of a crown vic cab and into a malibu or escape, it's freaking amazing that anyone could say anything but "turd." god awful throwback to the bad old days.

 

quit being lemmings and check them out yourselves. you'd be surprised what you find out when you check out a car in the flesh. get out of your armchair and drive a few cars yourself and see what a wonderful world there is out there.

 

Very well said and I agree completely...well except the Vegas part since I've never been! :) We did exactly that, drove and looked at several. The Flex came out on top.

Edited by fordmantpw
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Not true. We bought a Flex because it fit our needs well and my wife liked the interior much better than anything else out there! We don't even have an iPhone, and we definitely aren't trend setters!

 

 

Sorry if I am paraphrasing-I am not going to generalize every customer purchase. But I can tell you who the target buyer is on the Flex. It is geared towards trendsetters. These buyers tend to be more impulse and want to express themselves more than other people. That costs money when you are the first in line for the newest and hottest item, whether it is a vehicle, phone, computer, clothing, etc.

 

Regarding the sunroof-fine RJ it has 3 rows-not a big deal to me-I have an Edge with the sunroof and don't use it as often as I thought I would. But I sure would not spend $700 for a refigerator between the rear console. If you did not buy it from the factory that price goes to almost $2k!

 

The cloth material in the Flex is terrible-It is like a burlap bag. I have spoken with more than a dozen dealers and all of them say the same thing-it missed the mark. Thankfully you can add leather for around $1500-katzkin leather dealer installed accessory.

 

I was not asking about transaction price-I asked sales figures. This seems to be the baramoter of success for the F150-lets level the playing field.

 

The challenge for Ford is to get behind the Flex and start moving the numbers. I just think that the Flex is missing the mark-it is sitting on dealers lots right now. Yah I know Deanh's dealer sold a dozen or whatever last month-that is not happening in the Ford dealers in my part of the country-Georgia, Florida, South, North Carolina, Alabama or Tennessee.

 

The new Explorer will be more mainstream in its packaging and hopefully will hit the sweet spot of the market. But if I was to spend $35k on a Flex or a Traverse-I would take the Chevy-and I am a Ford person at heart. The Buick will cost you closer to $40k and maybe a little more but it offers equipment and trim that neither the Ford or Chevy offers.

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Road and Track just sent out their issue today, in it they had a comparo between 1st, Pilot 2nd CX9, 3rd Highlander. 4th Flex, 5th Travesty, 6th Veracruz.

 

Their only real complaint was not the braking, rather the acceleration, it was the slowest of the group.

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I was not asking about transaction price-I asked sales figures. This seems to be the baramoter of success for the F150-lets level the playing field.

 

The challenge for Ford is to get behind the Flex and start moving the numbers. I just think that the Flex is missing the mark-it is sitting on dealers lots right now.

1) Seeings how Ford's sales assumptions were, give or take, Enclave volume, not Edge volume, it would seem fair to compare the Flex against the only target that matters: its own (there is only ONE quote supporting the 100k figure that gets bandied about here, and it's from April, and it's Jim Farley, and he says Flex sales could, in his opinion 'HIT' 100k).

 

Now I have absolutely NO idea what the sales target is for the Traverse. If it's 6k/month, I would say that they're going to be about as hard pressed to add 6k in volume to the Lambda platform as Ford will be pressed to hit 6k with the Flex.

 

2) I think the challenge for Ford is to AVOID trying to 'move the numbers' on the Flex. You can't push a rope up hill, and this vehicle is very obviously intended toward people that are incredibly jittery about the economy. This ain't a $24k Sedona minivan. This is a premium people carrier. And unlike the Traverse, it looks every inch the part.

 

---

 

Oh, and on the sunroofs, I don't have mine open all the time, but I do have the sunshade back. On that score, I'll take as much glass area as I can get.

Edited by RichardJensen
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She has checked out the Flex and "hates it." Funny they did not put looks into one of the main criteria-sounds like a consumer report review. I don't care how you slice it, the Flex is polarizing. Love it-hate it-nothing in between.

 

I have been a critic of Ford's gauge layout and the Flex fails to break new ground there. I also like the information center better in the Chevy-the oil life reminder and tire pressure sytem is very useful. Ford fails to offer either-puzzling because they are so aggressive getting the customer back into the dealership-why not offer them a reminder.

 

And you can argue all day about sales being slow because of economic reasons but the GM crossovers are selling well-and they are pretty damn new in the market place as well.

 

I read part of the article where they talked about the looks of both, and they said they liked the Flex's looks better.

 

Ford has a tire pressure monitoring system, so I don't know what you're talking about on that front.

 

The GM crossovers (except Traverse) were also out several months ago, and have been relatively exposed in the marketplace, whereas Flex has been out for only a couple of months now(?). I've seen several Flexes, and only 1 Traverse (the rear was ugly, didn't get to see the front end).

 

Whenever I hear the word "LTZ," I think of some horrible sounding 3.4L engine with a rusted-out muffler on a 1994 Lumina. Usually a 20 something with a backwards cap behind the wheel.

 

I hate Chevy's naming scheme......LT, L LTZ, Z71, Z this, LT1, LT2 that, L, why not throw some of these in there.......#(%*#&@.....at least Ford has things you can remember like Eddie Bauer and Limited.

 

Regarding the sunroof-fine RJ it has 3 rows-not a big deal to me-I have an Edge with the sunroof and don't use it as often as I thought I would.

 

The Buick will cost you closer to $40k and maybe a little more but it offers equipment and trim that neither the Ford or Chevy offers.

 

How often does anybody use their sunroof? It's nice to have when you do want to use it though.

 

And what does the Buick offer that Flex doesn't have? I'm being serious here, as I don't really follow Buicks...

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Road and Track just sent out their issue today, in it they had a comparo between 1st, Pilot 2nd CX9, 3rd Highlander. 4th Flex, 5th Travesty, 6th Veracruz.

 

interesting takes for compairing CUVs...the first 3 are roughly Edge sized products with useless 3rd row seating..

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2) I think the challenge for Ford is to AVOID trying to 'move the numbers' on the Flex. You can't push a rope up hill, and this vehicle is very obviously intended toward people that are incredibly jittery about the economy. This ain't a $24k Sedona minivan. This is a premium people carrier. And unlike the Traverse, it looks every inch the part.

The Flex seems to be in the 'quiet achiever' mould and will probably grow better by word of mouth.

The exact opposite of the Taurus which IMO, needs continuous "push advertising" to keep sales going.

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Road and Track just sent out their issue today, in it they had a comparo between 1st, Pilot 2nd CX9, 3rd Highlander. 4th Flex, 5th Travesty, 6th Veracruz.

 

Their only real complaint was not the braking, rather the acceleration, it was the slowest of the group.

It looks like Car and Driver copied R/T...same comparo....same vehicles....same rank order....

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...and they're reviewing family haulers. 0-60 times, skid pad numbers, top speed....oh yeah, that's relavent.

 

It's relavent, but it should be weighed properly in the final consideration of what vehicle does its intended job better. Now I want to see if they will retest all of these vehicles next year when the EcoBoost is available in the Flex. I doubt it.

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Now I have absolutely NO idea what the sales target is for the Traverse. If it's 6k/month, I would say that they're going to be about as hard pressed to add 6k in volume to the Lambda platform as Ford will be pressed to hit 6k with the Flex.

 

I think they will hit that number-Chevy is their volume brand, but we will see. The Flex needs to sell more than 6k a month. At least the lambda platform is spread across 4 vehicles. I'm like you where GM's branding has passed its time, but if they could do it over again-I would think that it would be Buick and Chevy-forget Saturn and probably GMC.

 

2) I think the challenge for Ford is to AVOID trying to 'move the numbers' on the Flex. You can't push a rope up hill, and this vehicle is very obviously intended toward people that are incredibly jittery about the economy. This ain't a $24k Sedona minivan. This is a premium people carrier. And unlike the Traverse, it looks every inch the part.

 

Looks are personal-I don't see much difference in the $30k Flex compared to the $42k version. It adds some chrome and tailgate trim, but the wheels still look the same to me. Why Ford did not offer a chrome wheel escapes me. I know they are coming out with one as an accessory but it shoud of been ready at launch. You are right it is not a Sedona buyer-and they are nervous as hell-but the dealers are just sitting on these things with little or no traffic. Many dealers that i have talked to have not even worked a deal on one-that is not good.

---

 

Oh, and on the sunroofs, I don't have mine open all the time, but I do have the sunshade back. On that score, I'll take as much glass area as I can get.

 

I like glass as well-it gets hot as hell in my edge when the shade is open but I don't open the sunroof up like I thought I would.

 

 

Ford has a tire pressure monitoring system, so I don't know what you're talking about on that front.

 

The GM has a detailed layout on their information system that gives you pressure in each wheel. I am almost positive the Flex does not give you that information. The GM also gives you an extra gauge-Battery? if I am not mistaken-I like information, especially gauges.

 

The GM crossovers (except Traverse) were also out several months ago, and have been relatively exposed in the marketplace, whereas Flex has been out for only a couple of months now(?). I've seen several Flexes, and only 1 Traverse (the rear was ugly, didn't get to see the front end).

 

Yes the GM's launched last year and have been well received in the market. Give them credit-they look good and have the features that consumers want. It is not a Pilot or a boring Highlander-has more room than a CX-9. Hell if Ford is not going to get the sales, I am glad GM does.

 

 

 

How often does anybody use their sunroof? It's nice to have when you do want to use it though.

 

And what does the Buick offer that Flex doesn't have? I'm being serious here, as I don't really follow Buicks...

 

The Buick trim inside is several notches above their lambda's sister vehicles as well as the Edge. The wood inlays to me look great, as do the chrome touches through out. The shifter to me is almost a piece of art. It also has swivelling headlamps and a manual mode transmission and I think 20" wheels.

The Flex also has an oil life monitor as well.

 

My bad-must of missed that-should be on all Ford vehicles.

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The Flex seems to be in the 'quiet achiever' mould and will probably grow better by word of mouth.

The exact opposite of the Taurus which IMO, needs continuous "push advertising" to keep sales going.

 

The Taurus could've used advertising period, but we won't get into that on this thread. I agree that word-of-mouth will help the Flex.

 

The Flex also has an oil life monitor as well.

 

I figured it may've but I didn't want to say it did and have it not actually have one.

 

The Buick trim inside is several notches above their lambda's sister vehicles as well as the Edge. The wood inlays to me look great, as do the chrome touches through out. The shifter to me is almost a piece of art. It also has swivelling headlamps and a manual mode transmission and I think 20" wheels.

 

Yes, I'll agree GM did a good job with the Enclave, although now they're gonna have to axe some of the Lambdas to make room for another one....the Caddy. The Flex offers 20" wheels (although they're late availability at the moment) and AFAIK will be offering 22's from Ford accessories. I'm sure you'll see a manual mode tranny with the EB motor next year.

 

Swiveling headlamps....not so sure you'll see those on Flex at least for a while.....I'd almost guarantee they'd be on the MKT though, which will really be a more "accurate" competitor to the Enclave anyways.

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Me thinks he doesn't know the definition. The word he bolded is pathetic perhaps, but not ironic.

 

I guess the humor went over his head. That tends to happen when you have it way up your ass though.

 

Trust me...it went over your head.

 

But most things do anyway...you clearly have trouble understanding simple concepts.

 

And why are the Panthers "pathetic"? No, your wrong...it is because Ford is the most inept automaker on the planet right now.

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Trust me...it went over your head.

 

But most things do anyway...you clearly have trouble understanding simple concepts.

 

And why are the Panthers "pathetic"? No, your wrong...it is because Ford is the most inept automaker on the planet right now.

 

Yes. Yes. Yes. Run along then. You obviously hate Ford. Everyone else sees it. I mean really. Go away. Nobody wants you here. Something tells me you won't be here much longer. :happy feet:

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I think they will hit that number-Chevy is their volume brand, but we will see. The Flex needs to sell more than 6k a month. At least the lambda platform is spread across 4 vehicles. I'm like you where GM's branding has passed its time, but if they could do it over again-I would think that it would be Buick and Chevy-forget Saturn and probably GMC.

 

Looks are personal-I don't see much difference in the $30k Flex compared to the $42k version. It adds some chrome and tailgate trim, but the wheels still look the same to me. Why Ford did not offer a chrome wheel escapes me. I know they are coming out with one as an accessory but it shoud of been ready at launch. You are right it is not a Sedona buyer-and they are nervous as hell-but the dealers are just sitting on these things with little or no traffic. Many dealers that i have talked to have not even worked a deal on one-that is not good.

Flex was programmed around 60-75k units per year. They can do 100k at OAC, but that would be on 3 shifts. 2 shifts is about 110k Edges, 30k MKXs, 20k MKTs and 70k Flexes.

 

And, IMO, what GM fails to understand about divisions is what Ford gets with Mercury (kind of, and finally), it's a different channel--it doesn't need vast product differentiation. In other words, IMO, GM blew their budget on Lambda by making the Traverse, Outlook, Acadia, and Enclave too different. Ford gets more mileage out of Mercury in part because they don't blow a small fortune changing stuff that doesn't really matter.

 

IMO, GM hasn't done enough to bring different 'kinds' of customers into Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers as opposed to Chevy dealers. And then, where they have brought in a totally different kind of customer (Saturn), they squander that opportunity by refusing to cater to them.

 

GM may get 6k out of the Traverse, but a lot of it will come out of Acadia, Outlook, and Enclave volume. I'm certain that this will be true of fleet sales especially.

 

---

 

Also, what I meant about looks is that the Flex is designed to appeal to people looking to spend $35k on their people mover. I think the lower you go price wise, the less risks you can take design wise. A family spending $30k on a people mover will be, IMO, a bit more conservative than a family spending $35k.

 

Which is one of the reasons why the Flex comes with such a high base, and such a high volume of included equipment. It's not really designed for entry-level consumers.

Edited by RichardJensen
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Ford will struggle to get this higher end $30k+ consumer. In spite of how nice the Flex is, and how much Joe Consumer actually likes it, the logic will be: If we are spending $30k+, we better go with what we know - and that equals Honda Pilot/Odyssey and/or Toyota Highlander/Sienna.

Edited by Kev-Mo
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Yes. Yes. Yes. Run along then. You obviously hate Ford. Everyone else sees it. I mean really. Go away. Nobody wants you here. Something tells me you won't be here much longer. :happy feet:

 

That would be nice. Then I might actually participate here a bit more. Now I read.................. but almost never post.

 

I like the Flex, for what it is. I dislike the Traverse because it is the same as what 3 other divisions offer, only with a more bland front end treatment (if that is possible).

 

There was alot of complaining, by certain posters on here, about Ford using a corporate front end styling.................. basically, that everything looks the same. Now Chevy is doing the exact same thing............... and these same people are applauding it.

 

Typical.

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Ford will struggle to get this higher end $30k+ consumer. In spite of how nice the Flex is, and how much Joe Consumer actually likes it, the logic will be: If we are spending $30k+, we better go with what we know - and that equals Honda Pilot/Odyssey and/or Toyota Highlander/Sienna.

 

If Toyota and Honda followed that mentality, they would still be selling underachieving crapboxes like they did the 70's and 80's. The only way Ford will recapture market share from Toyota and Honda is to go at them head on. They aren't going to regain it by selling discount crap. Even the Koreans have found out that strategy only gets you so far.

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i think alot of the problem is, the people here bashing the Flex haven't driven one. They may have seen one in person, and may have even poked it with a stick, but probibly haven't driven one. I've driven a bunch, and been on a lot of test drives with customers. I've seen the reactions, and driven them first hand, and they are an amazing ride. Tigh, responsive, smooth, and quiet as hell. Even the base models are loaded, so yeah, it is a more upscale vehicle than Ford typically offers. Is this a mistake? Maybe, but you won't know until you drive one to see what you're missing. As for the looks being polarizing, alot of that is because it is new and different. When we got our first couple, we all took a collective step back and weren't sure. After seeing them everyday, everyone here has talked about it growing on them. Same with the Edge. Bottom line is, once the stick-poking stops, and people drive them because they've seen a few on the road, it'll be fine. Take them for what they are. They're not perfect for everyone, but as a family hauler, there's nothing better. I think Dean and myself have both compared this to the Edge launch on multiple occaisions. We were both there for the launch of both vehicles, and it feels exactly the same.

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