Tepid Flex Sales Foster Marketing Skeptics

[Extreme4x4]

In this economic climate, I don't think that any kind of advertising will really appeal.................. especially when you are talking about an aspirational vehicle, with a name that noone knows.

 

When times are tough, and jobs and economy is uncertain, people have a tendency to go with what they know. They don't know the Flex, and with the economy, it will take some time till they will. Ford just needs to have patience.

 

Frankly, I think that Ford is willing to be more than patient, as they know what they are up against in the economy. The media, however, always seems to forget what is going on in the world right now. They talk about the Flex not meeting expectations, and I have to ask................ expectations against what??? The Camry.............. a Lambda (which has a 1+ year head start on the Flex)............ a Tahoe??? What. I would bet my last penny, that Ford has considerably lowed its expectations on the vehicle, based on the economy.

[smok]

LOL are you being serious? Even VW fans are quick to dismiss the Routan.....

 

I love the whole German engineering/design advertising bit, especially for a vehicle primarily designed in Auburn Hills and manufactured in Ontario.

 

And how has Ford gone with a pimp my ride, hip hop image? Because they decided to do something different? And the pricing, for the last time price out option for option on each competitor and the Flex comes in right where it should be.

 

Farley is using a Scion Marketing strategy, and it just doesn't work on the Flex. I was using the VW example to show focus on the right customer, which I think Farley is missing in his approach. There is obviously internal conflict within Ford with the Farley approach.

 

OK, they did something different. It's a brave move for Ford, but it's priced too high. One thing you have to understand is that people will not pay premium for a Ford, at least not yet. In 5 years if they keep the quality improvements, maybe people will. If I buy a Flex today, in 3 months they'll have $5k incentive. It's just another risk I wouldn't take. Then in 3 years I'll have a residual of 50%. On the positive side, the interior is very classy.

[fordmantpw]

...It's a brave move for Ford, but it's priced too high...

 

For the 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999th time, it is priced inline with everything else in it's class!!!

 

Why can some of you not get that. Go price a Lambda. In some comparably equipped models, the Flex is actually less!

[Sherminator98]

You have a point ! Certainly too expensive for me and too expensive for former Windstar/Freestar drivers and most urban drivers (unless you are a rap star). I guess I was trying to say that at that price point, the pool of potential customers is smaller. Just as the pool of potential customers who need an 8 passenger vehicle is much smaller than those who need say a 6 passenger vehicle.

 

If you really need a 6 Passenger Vehicle, um doesnt the Edge fit the bill? Seems like your flip flopping...and the main reason the Windstar and Freestar was so cheap was the huge discounts on them!

 

The pricing is a non-issue for the most part, I comparied the prices of the Flex at a Ford Dealership and then looked at a Chrysler dealership for a Town and Country which is littary across the street from it, guess what...they where nearly Identical in price for all the models they had in stock/coming in! I didn't break it down by options, but the Trim levels that Ford and Chrysler used priced virtually identically.

[RichardJensen]

I was using the VW example to show focus on the right customer

 

but it's priced too high

1) VW has lost more money per vehicle in the US over the last 5 years than Ford.

 

And Ford has had to pay for thousands of employee terminations and about a dozen plant closures. VW is a terrible terrible company to use as an example of 'how to do things in these here You-nited States'.

 

Furthermore, I don't care what you're reading in the press, those VW ads are through the floor when it comes to improving the image of the VW brand. Sure they show pregnant couples, but the whole tone of the commercial is so pandering and condescending that I would be amazed if VW sells even half a dozen of them this year directly in response to those commercials.

 

2) And the Routan isn't? There are Routan trims that START at $38,600.

 

------

 

Whether Ford should stick with the 'Flex is here' campaign that stresses image over feature content is a valid question.

 

But please, PLEASE, do yourself a favor and stop using VW as a counter example.

 

Use Nissan, use Toyota, use Honda, just stop using VW. You're embarrassing yourself.

Edited October 28, 2008 by RichardJensen

[Michael Reynolds]

Farley is using a Scion Marketing strategy, and it just doesn't work on the Flex. I was using the VW example to show focus on the right customer, which I think Farley is missing in his approach. There is obviously internal conflict within Ford with the Farley approach.

 

OK, they did something different. It's a brave move for Ford, but it's priced too high. One thing you have to understand is that people will not pay premium for a Ford, at least not yet. In 5 years if they keep the quality improvements, maybe people will. If I buy a Flex today, in 3 months they'll have $5k incentive. It's just another risk I wouldn't take. Then in 3 years I'll have a residual of 50%. On the positive side, the interior is very classy.

 

Scion in terms of using CGI? If that's what it is, then I think a lot of automakers are guilty there. The ads that I've seen have nothing to do with hip hop or pimping anything, they simply show a Flex zipping across a screen. I don't agree with the marketing either, but I fail to see what point you are attempting to make.

 

If the Flex is priced too high then so is the: Pilot, Highlander, Sienna, Odyssey, GM Lambdas and so on. I think you, along with a few others, have some warped sense of what cars cost these days. If you can go into a Honda dealer and spend 20K on a Honda Fit with just factory options, asking 28K for a vehicle with as much equipment as a Flex does isn't that much of a stretch.

 

And so what if in 3 months there is more money on the hood of the Flex, that is the risk you run with any consumable product that is mass produced. The plasma we purchased 5 months ago has dropped dramatically in price, the incentives that weren't there on our FX are now there today. I could go on.....If folks weren't interested in spending that type of money on a 'Ford', how in the hell has Ford sold so many Explorers, Edges, Expeditions and high line F-150's?

[Extreme4x4]

I find the "price is too high" arguement to be a cop-out. Just say the truth, and say that it is priced too high for you.

 

I cannot afford the Maserati that I like, or the Jaguar either (R models). I will not argue that they are too expensive, as I know that they are too expensive for me. For others, they are fine.

 

Ford is trying to get to the point that they are making a profit on what they sell. It is quite obvious that the GM model of selling everything at a loss, but make it up in volume, doesn't work. Ford is willing to sell less vehicles, but make a profit on every one they make. This is the correct way to do business, especially if you are a "for profit" industry.

 

It is quite obvious, that it is going to take a while for some Ford fans to understand that. If you can't afford a Flex, then get something that you can afford. However, for some here, I have heard that same arguement for pretty much everything that everyone makes. When this is the case, it is time to reevaluate your value equation. It is not last year................ it is not 5 years ago................. and it certainly is not 10 years ago. Things change, and prices go up.

[Pioneer]

If you really need a 6 Passenger Vehicle, um doesnt the Edge fit the bill?

 

Where does the 6th passenger sit? The roof rack, or the engine compartment?

[ANTAUS]

I have been able to get 4 people comfortably well in the back of an MKX. I've been able to get 3, in the 3rd row of an Explorer and Expy, and 4 on their 2nd row proper. Then again, the people I'm hauling aren't fat people either.

[Edstock]

Farley is using a Scion Marketing strategy, and it just doesn't work on the Flex.

Considering it's been out less than 6 months, and in the meantime gasoline has gone through the roof, and the world financial system has cpllapsed, there hasn't been enough time to assess whether the vehicle is a success or failure, or whether the marketing approach is effective.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, even if it's a stupid one. Please try thinking a little harder.

[rmc523]

I prefer marketing that tells me something about the vehicle. Seeing it whirl around on a screen with hip hop music doesn't cut it for most. I've had a few people already ask me "What is a Ford Flex, I saw one but I dont know what it's supposed to be"...So I gotta start with the basics...how many people it seats, drivetrain, AWD, blah blah.

 

 

Agree. Show some actual features of the vehicle. Show it in a real life scenario so people can get a feel for its actual size. Letting it blaze around in a computer-animated landscape does nothing for it at all. I like the rolling views of the interior they are showing, but it needs more than that.

 

And they need to push the fuel economy more!!! I don't know how many ads I've seen lately from other automakers that are touting fuel economy of crossovers that are LOWER than the Flex's. If Hyundai can call the Santa Fe "fuel efficient" in its ads saying it gets 24 mpg highway, then dammit Ford, do the same. Heck, I saw a Scion xB ad the other day. I couldn't believe they were bragging about 28 mpg highway. That's freaking awful for a car that small.

 

I think the Flex ads that are currently being run are/were good "debut" ads.....ads that grab your attention and make you say "what's that?" when the vehicle first debuted/arrived at dealers. I think they need to now move toward a campaign like you all said......show some of the features it has. Promote the backup camera (which works really well and has a great picture), promote 2nd row legroom, promote the 3rd row configurations, promote the refrigerator for high-end models......use the vehicle's features to help sell the vehicle, especially on a new vehicle that many may not know about. I also agree with those of you that said they need something in the ads to compare it to size-wise. They say 7 passenger crossover, but as (IIRC) Nick said, that could be a RAV-4. I also am bothered by the Santa Fe ads, touting it's 24 mpgs.

[ironhorse]

I've heard anecdotal stories about brisk Flex sales,but ask any dealer,or general manager about the Flex...they see the numbers and know what's going on at the retail end. It pains me personally and financially to see this vehicle fail. This vehicle is was introduced at the wrong time and wrong price point. The advertising and marketing of this vehicle has been terrible.

[NickF1011]

The advertising and marketing of this vehicle has been terrible.

 

I wouldn't call it terrible. As was mentioned, the initial wave of ads were good for the "intro" of the vehicle. It's time to move on with it though.

[akirby]

Just saw a Mercury Mariner ad last night that proclaimed, very loudly and in capital letters: Mariner gets 28 mpg hwy - HONDA DOESN"T (reference to the CR-V). The gloves are off. And Jill still looks fantastic.

[ANTAUS]

There's a local dealership here that has the Flex and Focus on the screen with a 35HWY on there and says, "great fuel economy on new vehicles"....which sort of makes you think that the Flex gets 35MPG, although they are really talking about the Docus

[Sherminator98]

I've heard anecdotal stories about brisk Flex sales,but ask any dealer,or general manager about the Flex...they see the numbers and know what's going on at the retail end. It pains me personally and financially to see this vehicle fail. This vehicle is was introduced at the wrong time and wrong price point.

 

Why is the Flex at the wrong price point? Is it because dealerships are too use to selling "cheap" Fords and aren't equiped/trained to sell it at that price? If someone is interested in the Flex and its "too expensive" don't you try to sell them a Taurus X which offers the same seating at a cheaper price?

 

I think the dealerships also need an attuite adjustment also..your not going to make any money trying to out Korean makes by selling Fords at cut throat prices, because Ford isn't going to make any money and nor are you...

[ANTAUS]

We keep hearing that the Flex is overpriced, and doesn't have the sales people to sell $30+ vehicles, but has anyone really done the math on WHAT sells at the typical Ford dealerships?

 

F-150 "higher trim" (Lariat, KR, Platinum) everything thru the F450 PS Diesels...all vehicles that can hit $50+. Whats the last mix we've read about? That a bit over 60% of sales is the heavier duty models?

 

The Expy's (without counting rebates) start in their mid 30's and hit 40's easily.

Explorer can easily hit upper $30s, same with E-Series.

Edge can easily fall into the $30K Zone, as can Taurus and Taurus X..>Escapes as well can hit $32K....throw Sport Trac in there as well.

 

If you look at it, probably the only vehicles hitting under $30K- decked out is the Focus, CV and Fusion (even the heavily loaded Fusion hits $29K).

 

Granted, many of these vehicles start at lower price points, and rebates help to, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking that Ford can't sell expensive vehicles. They have, for years...now perception is another thing.

 

I even remember an article years ago by Robert Lane which demonstrated that Lincoln had more $40K+ sales, than any other luxury automakers, the point of the article was who was truely luxury and "near" luxury....How was that possible? Acura, BMW, Mbenz, Lexus all had models starting under $30K (again, this was years ago)...While the core of Lincoln models were in their $40k segment....

[ironhorse]

We sell $50,000 trucks,and $21,000 Focuses without any problem...your point holds no water with me,with all due respect. In sales,1st impression is everything,the Flex misses the mark,in my opinion. The Limited model is by far the more attractive,but also very expensive, and in this market, is not where the volume is. I thought the Suicide doors in the concept should have been kept and would have given the vehicle a little more to advertise the "gotta have" factor....The vehicle needs to re-position itself,and marketing dollars spent making the vehicle a lot more desireable.

[NickF1011]

We sell $50,000 trucks,and $21,000 Focuses without any problem...your point holds no water with me,with all due respect. In sales,1st impression is everything,the Flex misses the mark,in my opinion. The Limited model is by far the more attractive,but also very expensive, and in this market, is not where the volume is. I thought the Suicide doors in the concept should have been kept and would have given the vehicle a little more to advertise the "gotta have" factor....The vehicle needs to re-position itself,and marketing dollars spent making the vehicle a lot more desireable.

 

"Gotta have" suicide doors? There is a reason they have disappeared from the market. They are useless. Sure they look neat, but they serve no purpose whatsoever except making it even more difficult to unload the children from your vehicle in a parking lot.

[akirby]

We sell $50,000 trucks,and $21,000 Focuses without any problem...your point holds no water with me,with all due respect. In sales,1st impression is everything,the Flex misses the mark,in my opinion. The Limited model is by far the more attractive,but also very expensive, and in this market, is not where the volume is. I thought the Suicide doors in the concept should have been kept and would have given the vehicle a little more to advertise the "gotta have" factor....The vehicle needs to re-position itself,and marketing dollars spent making the vehicle a lot more desireable.

 

If the Flex is too expensive then so is EVERY OTHER comparable 7 passenger premium crossover. What do you think is a reasonably priced alternative? And Ford is spending a lot on advertisements already and the ads will evolve over time.

 

Do you just go out off your way to find something to complain about?

[RichardJensen]

I think the article raises some points about customers as well.

 

For instance, 50% of Flex sales are coming from outside the Ford brand....

 

I think the Flex is a better 'entry' vehicle than a 'trade-in'. IMO, Ford customers are more hesitant about prices than Honda/Toyota customers that have already paid over $35k for their 7 passenger people movers.

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, stop and think about it: When was the last time someone paid $35k+ for a 7 passenger Ford that couldn't tow 7,000lbs with a V8?

[akirby]

I think the article raises some points about customers as well.

 

For instance, 50% of Flex sales are coming from outside the Ford brand....

 

I think the Flex is a better 'entry' vehicle than a 'trade-in'. IMO, Ford customers are more hesitant about prices than Honda/Toyota customers that have already paid over $35k for their 7 passenger people movers.

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, stop and think about it: When was the last time someone paid $35k+ for a 7 passenger Ford that couldn't tow 7,000lbs with a V8?

 

I paid $33K for a 8 passenger Ford (Expedition) and $39K for a 6 passenger Lincoln (Aviator) both with V8s and the only thing I ever towed was a small Uhaul trailer - once. In 9 years.

[RichardJensen]

I paid $33K for a 8 passenger Ford (Expedition) and $39K for a 6 passenger Lincoln (Aviator) both with V8s and the only thing I ever towed was a small Uhaul trailer - once. In 9 years.

Kind of my point. Ford buyer looks at something like this, and says, "I could buy an Expedition for that."

 

Typical Honda/Toyota customer, who most certainly would NOT buy an Expedition, looks at that and says, "Wow. I can't buy anything like that from [Honda/Toyota]"

 

Only problem is, in fairly conservative times, and even though the Flex is as thrifty as the Odyssey & Sienna, people are more inclined to stick to what they know....

 

Farley is right. Flex can draw people to the brand. The problem is, people don't want to leave familiar territory these days.

Edited October 29, 2008 by RichardJensen

[akirby]

Kind of my point. Ford buyer looks at something like this, and says, "I could buy an Expedition for that."

 

Typical Honda/Toyota customer, who most certainly would NOT buy an Expedition, looks at that and says, "Wow. I can't buy anything like that from [Honda/Toyota]"

 

Only problem is, in fairly conservative times, and even though the Flex is as thrifty as the Odyssey & Sienna, people are more inclined to stick to what they know....

 

Farley is right. Flex can draw people to the brand. The problem is, people don't want to leave familiar territory these days.

 

Or to put it another way - they're much more likely to jump to Ford from another brand for a Flex than they would for a new Windstar/Freestar/generically styled minivan. It's just that folks are less likely to jump anywhere right now.

[Michael Reynolds]

We sell $50,000 trucks,and $21,000 Focuses without any problem...your point holds no water with me,with all due respect. In sales,1st impression is everything,the Flex misses the mark,in my opinion. The Limited model is by far the more attractive,but also very expensive, and in this market, is not where the volume is. I thought the Suicide doors in the concept should have been kept and would have given the vehicle a little more to advertise the "gotta have" factor....The vehicle needs to re-position itself,and marketing dollars spent making the vehicle a lot more desireable.

 

The Flex is a vehicle of utility, what utility would suicide doors serve? If the Flex is expensive, then do you think the: Enclave, Acadia, Outlook, Traverse, Pilot, Highlander is as well? And just how does the Flex miss the mark, and where?