rkisler Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 22 highway? Seriously? I think they should have went the other way and turbocharged a 2.5 to get the mileage up before they turned their minivan into a race car. :rolleyes: In the streaming video from the Auto Show, Derek K just said that there would be a 4-cylinder offered in every car and crossover that Ford makes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) Tom, it's getting better, and I'm very happy that Ford has set as an objective class-leading fuel economy in all new products. We are seeing some better press -- even in LA and at Consumer Reports. I'm really talking about brand perception which substantially lags product. Opinions are hard to change, and you need to take away every excuse for those people who are negative on Ford to cling to their opinions. I would agree with you if weren't for the fact that the EB AWD Flex gets the same gas mileage as the current AWD Flex. It shows that Ford has the technology to produce power and economy. The Fusion indicates that Ford also has the technology to produce class-leading gas mileage. There's no bad news in any of that. Edited January 11, 2009 by TomServo92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Same one they are using today, 6F50. IIRC, AWD is a mandatory option on any D3 with EcoBoost. They actually said it was 6F55, which appears to be a beefed-up 6F50. AWD makes perfect sense, because torque steer is not our friend. Audi's done the same thing with all their cars with V8s and larger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 So what happens at 150,000 miles? The turbos have to be replaced or just overhauled? To me it doesn't seem that different than other "wear" items that have to be replaced or overhauled after a given amount of time (i.e. clutches or timing belts). 150,000 miles is a minimum. If you abuse your car, you likely have totalled it before it gets to 150k. 10% would be badly manufactured and something (turbo, injector or something else) will have to be replaced. 30% would fail around 225K. 30% would fail around 300K. 20% will last to half a million miles. If you baby your car and you have no defects, it might last up to a million miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I'm looking at examples like the Toyota Venza which has a 4-cylinder as a base engine which (once again) helps solidify Toyota's image as "fuel economy leader". The difference here is the Venza competes with the Edge and the Flex competes with the Sienna. A EB I4 in a Edge and Flex would be a good idea and they're coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDuff Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 150,000 miles is a minimum. If you abuse your car, you likely have totalled it before it gets to 150k. 10% would be badly manufactured and something (turbo, injector or something else) will have to be replaced. 30% would fail around 225K. 30% would fail around 300K. 20% will last to half a million miles. If you baby your car and you have no defects, it might last up to a million miles. A boosted gas engine will not last 200K without major repairs period. Even a diesel for that matter. Guarenteed. And expect labor to be extremely high. I just did a water pump on a D35 and it was a complete joke. Serviceability issues abound. If they do last thats great, but if there are quality issues, especially at launch, expect a major hit to resale value. Think t-bird super coupe. JUNK!!! Trust me, I want this to be a quality product. It looks like it'll be a blast to drive, and I love that there doing unconventional things in the high performance arena. I just hope I don't have to fix them under warranty regularly. Looks like a nightmare that Ford won't pay me my time for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 22 highway? Seriously? I think they should have went the other way and turbocharged a 2.5 to get the mileage up before they turned their minivan into a race car. :rolleyes: Show me something with 3 rows comfortably seating passengers in every row with better fuel efficiency. And the Venza is a 5 passenger CUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 A boosted gas engine will not last 200K without major repairs period. Even a diesel for that matter. Guarenteed. And expect labor to be extremely high. I just did a water pump on a D35 and it was a complete joke. Serviceability issues abound. If they do last thats great, but if there are quality issues, especially at launch, expect a major hit to resale value. Think t-bird super coupe. JUNK!!! Trust me, I want this to be a quality product. It looks like it'll be a blast to drive, and I love that there doing unconventional things in the high performance arena. I just hope I don't have to fix them under warranty regularly. Looks like a nightmare that Ford won't pay me my time for. I think the powers to be took that into concern, which is why we are now seeing EB vs. a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenCaylor Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 A boosted gas engine will not last 200K without major repairs period. Even a diesel for that matter. Guarenteed. And expect labor to be extremely high. I just did a water pump on a D35 and it was a complete joke. Serviceability issues abound. If they do last thats great, but if there are quality issues, especially at launch, expect a major hit to resale value. Think t-bird super coupe. JUNK!!! Trust me, I want this to be a quality product. It looks like it'll be a blast to drive, and I love that there doing unconventional things in the high performance arena. I just hope I don't have to fix them under warranty regularly. Looks like a nightmare that Ford won't pay me my time for. My 87 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe had 250000 miles on it when I sold it and bought my 2000 Mustang. The only repair I had to make to the turbo/engine was to replace the rubber hose between the intercooler and the intake manifold. Even the catalitic converter was still fine. It was all the other little things that were starting to nickle and dime me to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 A boosted gas engine will not last 200K without major repairs period. Even a diesel for that matter. Guarenteed. And expect labor to be extremely high. I just did a water pump on a D35 and it was a complete joke. Serviceability issues abound. If they do last thats great, but if there are quality issues, especially at launch, expect a major hit to resale value. Think t-bird super coupe. JUNK!!! Trust me, I want this to be a quality product. It looks like it'll be a blast to drive, and I love that there doing unconventional things in the high performance arena. I just hope I don't have to fix them under warranty regularly. Looks like a nightmare that Ford won't pay me my time for. A water pump on a D35? What car and how many miles? (if you can say) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Show me something with 3 rows comfortably seating passengers in every row with better fuel efficiency. http://www.toyota.com/highlander/features.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 http://www.toyota.com/highlander/features.html Er, he said "comfortably." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 http://www.toyota.com/highlander/features.html I suppose you are getting at the 4 cylinder model, because the V-6 is basically on par with the Flex. Never mind the fact that if Toyota were so hell bent on selling 4 cylinder versions they would have offered the engine on more trim levels than base. And notice I said comfortable, the 3rd row of the Highlander is far from it. The 3rd row is almost a full 4 inches shorter than the Flex's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I suppose you are getting at the 4 cylinder model, because the V-6 is basically on par with the Flex. Never mind the fact that if Toyota were so hell bent on selling 4 cylinder versions they would have offered the engine on more trim levels than base. And notice I said comfortable, the 3rd row of the Highlander is far from it. The 3rd row is almost a full 4 inches shorter than the Flex's. I don't even think that the 4-cyl Highlander comes with a 3rd row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Never mind the fact that if Toyota were so hell bent on selling 4 cylinder versions they would have offered the engine on more trim levels than base. They are probably not hell bent on selling a lot of them, but the 4 cylinder does give them the 27 MPG that they can brag about. The majority of third row passengers are kids. So what if the dimensions are a little smaller. My only point is, in a time where most new car buyers are shopping for fuel economy, the 2.5 EB should have been a higher priority. Hell, a 30 MPG(I would hope) 2.5 EB Flex would even be on my shopping list, and I don't want one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDuff Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 My 87 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe had 250000 miles on it when I sold it and bought my 2000 Mustang. The only repair I had to make to the turbo/engine was to replace the rubber hose between the intercooler and the intake manifold. Even the catalitic converter was still fine. It was all the other little things that were starting to nickle and dime me to death. There is a great example of a turbo coupe that comes in once and a while. The only problem he has is ring seal, it throws rich codes due to fuel in the oil. He still drives it and it still runs great. The super coupe 3.8's are a whole other story. A lot more power than the turbo 4's and a lot more beating by owners. Can you say head gaskets? I don't even want to think about head gaskets on the ecoboost. Don't think it can't happen, just look at the 6.0 diesel. It still happens, even with modern engines and gaskets. A water pump on a D35? What car and how many miles? (if you can say) An 09 Taurus. Had two with less than 5,000. The customer notices a lack of heat, obviously due to low coolant level. Its been common. I've heard the Edges do it too but I haven't seen it. Timing chain driven. PAIN IN THE ASS. It payed about half what I had in it the first time. Learned a little, than payed about 75% what I had in it the second time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I don't even think that the 4-cyl Highlander comes with a 3rd row. According to the "build and price", you can. Amusingly enough, you can also get the tow package with the 4 cylinder. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganTruck_Mafia Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 In the streaming video from the Auto Show, Derek K just said that there would be a 4-cylinder offered in every car and crossover that Ford makes..... Did he say when this is supposed to happen? I'm in the market for a family hauler later this year. A 4 cylinder Flex sounds great to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Did he say when this is supposed to happen? I'm in the market for a family hauler later this year. A 4 cylinder Flex sounds great to me. Proves my point. Consumers are shopping for fuel economy these days, not HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 According to the "build and price", you can. Amusingly enough, you can also get the tow package with the 4 cylinder. :lol: Hmm, so you can. Doesn't look very useful back there, though, unlike the Flex. I thought the tow package was dumb also. Bet the package itself decreases MPGs. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 They are probably not hell bent on selling a lot of them, but the 4 cylinder does give them the 27 MPG that they can brag about. The majority of third row passengers are kids. So what if the dimensions are a little smaller. My only point is, in a time where most new car buyers are shopping for fuel economy, the 2.5 EB should have been a higher priority. Hell, a 30 MPG(I would hope) 2.5 EB Flex would even be on my shopping list, and I don't want one. Which I have yet to see marketed anywhere, and that would be due to the fact that Toyota knows very few customers are going to pay 29K for a bare bones underpowered 4 cylinder. Who cares who the majority of third row passengers are, there is very little space back there. Four inches on paper may not seem like a lot but when it comes time to use it the only passengers that would be comfortable back there are 4 year olds. The name of the game is usability, and the Flex has trumped the Highlander in that area. I mean you might as well be arguing that the V-6 RAV4 with a 3rd row is OK because it has better fuel economy than the Flex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I mean you might as well be arguing that the V-6 RAV4 with a 3rd row is OK because it has better fuel economy than the Flex. Now you're just being silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Proves my point. Consumers are shopping for fuel economy these days, not HP. One person does not prove a point. Nor does it address load factors when you have a car full of passengers and their crap all in a heavy vehicle. Have fun with that one. If you truly aren't lugging around over 5 folks on a consistent basis, need to tow 2x's a year and you run to Home Depot on an infrequent basis and fuel economy is a primary concern then I suppose you don't need an SUV/CUV/Pickup now do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Now you're just being silly. Not really. Remember only kids sit back there for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 One person does not prove a point. The study found that 63 percent of U.S. adult consumers are likely to purchase a new vehicle with enhanced fuel economy, if they have the option, in their next vehicle purchase. LINK When comparing the fuel economy of vehicles made by General Motors and Toyota in 2002and 2006, the analysis revealed Toyota's mileage improved significantly, both because consumers shifted their purchases to more fuel-efficient categories of vehicles, and Toyota, on average, offered significantly more fuel efficient models. GM, on the other hand, improved its average fuel economy only slightly because consumers shifted their purchases between categories, but GM did not offer,on average, a significantly more fuel efficient slate of vehicles. "Clearly the automaker with the most fuel-efficient vehicles wins," said automotive expert Jack Gillis, CFA Director of Public Affairs. LINK In an April 2007 poll conducted by Consumers Union, 70 percent of respondents said they would seek a more fuel efficient vehicle. The same poll found that 42 percent would pay more for a more fuel efficient vehicle. LINK A Quarterly Report on Consumption, Prices and Imports shows that consumers are looking for cars that are much more fuel-efficient than the auto manufacturers have been providing. LINK Seems to me, more Americans are concerned about fuel economy over entering their "family hauler" in the next Daytona 500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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