30 years plus

[chelli]

This is probably the dumbest thread I have ever seen in here. This is not the first time Ford and the UAW have gone through this. Also whether you voted them in our not does not matter, obviously the majority did. I got an idea lets put all new leadership in with no experience and see how we come out of this! Oh and BTW all you naysayers in this thread if you think you can handle it step to the plate and run, don't sit on a forum and talk shit about leadership when your ass wont even run for a leadership position. Lets also remember that the leadership has to make hard decisions, they were elected to do this by the majority. What you think may be bad for you as an individual may be saving thousands of other jobs. Basically what I am saying is pull your head out your ass and think before starting such a useless thread.

[Grandmaster B]

How many of you at local 228 have over 30 years seniority? How many of you with that seniority are worried about losing your job? I would venture to say not many. Why are so many elected officials and appointees of local 228 in the 30 year club? Yes you have all put in your time and helped pave the way for the next generation, but you haven't earned a free pass. Things aren't like they used to be and your experienced in the traditions of old. Congress called for the big three to replace their ceos, why have we the union not asked for the same from our ranks. The same old ideas and outdated practices aren't working. You are not bigger than ford and you're not bigger than the uaw. Surely you must know the best thing for your membership is retire with dignity and move on with your lives. It happens all the time in life. The once strong and proud become weak and jaded. Do what is right for the future of the uaw and ford.

 

Go look at the senority list to see how many people have more than 30 years, it's by the hospital. There can't be to many left. We really need to stop this "if you got 30 years you need to retire shit", and no... I don't have 30 years. Do you have any idea of how many people with 30 years today layed off for back in the late 70's and 80's? Do you realize how much time it take's to come back from something like that? Stugots: I understand your frustration and I am in no way trying to put you down, but this arguement about 30 year employees needing to retire get us nowhere.

[Ktp1989]

Bottom line, it's no ones decision to retire but that individual. Period. One day you might be lucky enough to get your 30 in and will make your own decision on what to do and when to do it. Control what you can control.........you. This thread causes more issues than it helps. Get over it, one day you will be the 30 year seniority worker and some young buck will try to run your "old ass" off. Pay your dues.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Ktp1989

[mrballsonya]

Divide and Conquer. Companies just love this type of infighting.

 

As the singular word definition seems to suggest, a Divided Union is not only contradictory; but at the same time..... absolutely useless.

 

As much as I despised the few slugs that I encountered in my short 9 year tenure with Ford Motor Company, I must say that they couldn't be quantified by age or seniority. I've worked with complete Slugs that had 2 years of seniority, and workaholics that had over 35 years.

 

My main UAW reform issue isn't with seniority, it's with accountability. I think this is one area that the new "Modern UAW" needs to really take a look at.

 

In order for us (the UAW) to remain viable in the new global economy, we can no longer expect fellow hard working brothers and sisters to carry the dead weight of lazy slugs. In an environment where everyone is paid the same wage, a slug is absolutely cancerous. Not only will the slug do next to nothing, he'll also create a work environment....where even the hardest workers will start to question their own devotion and work ethic.

 

Since everyone is paid the same, what motivation does the workhorse have to work hard; when the slug can get away with doing nothing? I'll tell you.....absolutely NONE. And in my opinion this is the main problem with the UAW. I know we're all brothers and sisters in solidarity, but in reality..... all of us are different people, with different work ethics. There should be some type of reward/demerit system in place, to acknowledge those that work hard.... and penalize those who don't. You can't be a competitive entity, without some competition.

 

If there's any onus to be placed on the UAW, I'd say it's a simple lack of accountability amongst our membership.

Edited January 22, 2009 by mrballsonya

[TheEagle]

not my local but i retired at 48 with 30 years service and my Daughter is just starting college

 

it is very doable on a Ford pension

 

i feel it is the responsibility of the senior members to retire and leave the jobs to the young bucks who need them

 

just my 2 cents

 

Thanks for making room Brother. Solidarity Forever. I hope your daughter becomes very successful in life.

[TheEagle]

What the hell is going on at 228??

 

Elections are a year away and we start early, kicking each other in the ass. If your not from Sterling you will not understand.

 

This is what we do at Sterling for the 62 years we have been operating. A year before the election we get all the issues out there and beat each other up for a year and then they get thier shit together and all is forgiven and we move on.

 

If you have thin skin at Sterling, we will peel it off you and eat it.

 

We have way too many trades running the show in the union and they are getting cocky (not all)( just a few who are elected or appointed).

 

Next election production is going to put the "smack down" if things don't get staightend out quickly at Sterling.

 

Just wanted people to know, this is just how we deal at Sterling.

 

So when you put in for the 147 posting in a few months, think about it before you sign up. We play for keeps.

[Stugots]

This is probably the dumbest thread I have ever seen in here. This is not the first time Ford and the UAW have gone through this. Also whether you voted them in our not does not matter, obviously the majority did. I got an idea lets put all new leadership in with no experience and see how we come out of this! Oh and BTW all you naysayers in this thread if you think you can handle it step to the plate and run, don't sit on a forum and talk shit about leadership when your ass wont even run for a leadership position. Lets also remember that the leadership has to make hard decisions, they were elected to do this by the majority. What you think may be bad for you as an individual may be saving thousands of other jobs. Basically what I am saying is pull your head out your ass and think before starting such a useless thread.

 

 

Useless thread? Useless in whose eyes? This forum is for discussing topics that affect Ford workers. This topic greatly affects Ford workers. Old expression goes like this; no such thing as a stupid question only stupid answers. Its democratic to question our leaders.

[Dadzee]

Everyone needs to STFU about those with 30 years.

 

Noone with under 30 has any idea what these factories were like before they gained the benefits we enjoy.

 

How about you take YOUR ass out the f'n door and find a non union shop in which your years of service and the toll they take on you will mean nothing.....A$$HOLES

[Stugots]

Everyone needs to STFU about those with 30 years.

 

Noone with under 30 has any idea what these factories were like before they gained the benefits we enjoy.

 

How about you take YOUR ass out the f'n door and find a non union shop in which your years of service and the toll they take on you will mean nothing.....A$$HOLES

 

So noone with less than 30 years knows what it was like before we gained benefits? And your foul language and name calling. Really shows your intellect dadzee. Somehow I doubt u were part of the brawl back in the 30s when Ford hired thugs to attack our founding brothers and sisters. The things they achieved were remarkable. Our founding members shed blood and even lost lives to give us what we have. So am I to interpret your comments as anyone who wasn't there in the beginning knows nothing? Really? Its laughable. Its time we stop acting like the only responsible level headed knowledgeable people are those who have all the seniority. Look at the government. Robert Byrd, Jesse Helms. Really? They are out of touch with the masses. Its not 1950 anymore.

[chelli]

Useless thread? Useless in whose eyes? This forum is for discussing topics that affect Ford workers. This topic greatly affects Ford workers. Old expression goes like this; no such thing as a stupid question only stupid answers. Its democratic to question our leaders.

 

You didn't ask a question, you made a statement. That the 30 year members need to move on. You are correct about questioning leadership. So instead of doing it on a forum, which IMHO will get you no where. Go to them and question them, that is your right. I just see it as useless because you are going to achieve nothing in this forum with that statement. But what you are doing is creating dissension amongst 30 year members and the younger members. It just makes no sense to me. Be a part of the solution not the problem. We need to all stand together brother in these trying times. That is what the UAW was built on. STAND STRONG!!

[Pioneer]

In order for us (the UAW) to remain viable in the new global economy, we can no longer expect fellow hard working brothers and sisters to carry the dead weight of lazy slugs. In an environment where everyone is paid the same wage, a slug is absolutely cancerous. Not only will the slug do next to nothing, he'll also create a work environment....where even the hardest workers will start to question their own devotion and work ethic.

 

Since everyone is paid the same, what motivation does the workhorse have to work hard; when the slug can get away with doing nothing? I'll tell you.....absolutely NONE. And in my opinion this is the main problem with the UAW. I know we're all brothers and sisters in solidarity, but in reality..... all of us are different people, with different work ethics. There should be some type of reward/demerit system in place, to acknowledge those that work hard.... and penalize those who don't. You can't be a competitive entity, without some competition.

 

If there's any onus to be placed on the UAW, I'd say it's a simple lack of accountability amongst our membership.

 

+1

[Dadzee]

So noone with less than 30 years knows what it was like before we gained benefits? And your foul language and name calling. Really shows your intellect dadzee. Somehow I doubt u were part of the brawl back in the 30s when Ford hired thugs to attack our founding brothers and sisters. The things they achieved were remarkable. Our founding members shed blood and even lost lives to give us what we have. So am I to interpret your comments as anyone who wasn't there in the beginning knows nothing? Really? Its laughable. Its time we stop acting like the only responsible level headed knowledgeable people are those who have all the seniority. Look at the government. Robert Byrd, Jesse Helms. Really? They are out of touch with the masses. Its not 1950 anymore.

 

Reading a book, watching a film ect. ect. are not the same as having lived it. I said people who were not there have no idea what these factories were like.... Reading is a skill.

 

I made no mention of those with under thirty years not knowing of the struggle.

 

As for the profanity, I have no excuse other than the fact that after the 50th or so post permiated with this type of drivel (and it seems yours lacks even the merit of one concerned for their job and family, but lends itself more to a political rant) I simply lost it.

 

I agree you should confront these people directly and run for office. Let us know how that goes.

 

stugats- The name fits

[Stugots]

Reading a book, watching a film ect. ect. are not the same as having lived it. I said people who were not there have no idea what these factories were like.... Reading is a skill.

 

I made no mention of those with under thirty years not knowing of the struggle.

 

As for the profanity, I have no excuse other than the fact that after the 50th or so post permiated with this type of drivel (and it seems yours lacks even the merit of one concerned for their job and family, but lends itself more to a political rant) I simply lost it.

 

I agree you should confront these people directly and run for office. Let us know how that goes.

 

stugats- The name fits

 

 

Stugots- the most common definition is balls, testicles. Thanks for liking my name. As I said in previous posts I do not seek office of any sort. I simply brought forth the topic. I do however feel that there is a time and place for everything, and the time and place is coming next election when we will elect capable dependable men or women with their future ahead of them here at Ford to the posistions of power. Not the people whose time has passed them by. Change always comes like it or not. Change IS coming.

[Fatso]

How many of you at local 228 have over 30 years seniority? How many of you with that seniority are worried about losing your job? I would venture to say not many. Why are so many elected officials and appointees of local 228 in the 30 year club? Yes you have all put in your time and helped pave the way for the next generation, but you haven't earned a free pass. Things aren't like they used to be and your experienced in the traditions of old. Congress called for the big three to replace their ceos, why have we the union not asked for the same from our ranks. The same old ideas and outdated practices aren't working. You are not bigger than ford and you're not bigger than the uaw. Surely you must know the best thing for your membership is retire with dignity and move on with your lives. It happens all the time in life. The once strong and proud become weak and jaded. Do what is right for the future of the uaw and ford.

If you can stay employed,,,then one day you will get there.I am ALL for collaboration and agreement between high and low seniority employees.The situation that will come back to haunt higher seniority employees is that if the current lower seniority employees feel that they have been sacrificed or left out on their own.Just keep showing up,,,,misery loves company,,,lol!!!!!

[Maislebandit]

Any employee who comes to work and does their job should be able to decide when they want to retire. It doesn't matter if they have 40+ years or not. It doesn't matter if they donate their entire pay to charity - or to blow it all at the track or on booze and broads - or use it to support family. They could use c-notes to light cubans for all I care. Bottom line, IT IS THEIR CHOICE AND ONLY THEIR CHOICE TO MAKE.

 

I do however applaud a 30 year worker who decides to move on. Not only does it unselfishly thin the herd, it gives them a chance to enjoy life outside the factory. Sadly, most people who retire from auto factories don't live very long after leaving. I must ask, who are they really cheating?

 

We would all be better off if we correct and control only what we can - OUR OWN BUSINESS.

[truckster]

How many of you at local 228 have over 30 years seniority? How many of you with that seniority are worried about losing your job? I would venture to say not many. Why are so many elected officials and appointees of local 228 in the 30 year club? Yes you have all put in your time and helped pave the way for the next generation, but you haven't earned a free pass. Things aren't like they used to be and your experienced in the traditions of old. Congress called for the big three to replace their ceos, why have we the union not asked for the same from our ranks. The same old ideas and outdated practices aren't working. You are not bigger than ford and you're not bigger than the uaw. Surely you must know the best thing for your membership is retire with dignity and move on with your lives. It happens all the time in life. The once strong and proud become weak and jaded. Do what is right for the future of the uaw and ford.

 

 

I have to say that I agree with this post 100%. I always believed that we should have had a 30 and out policy. If someone can't get their financial affairs in order in 30 years, then they never will, no matter how much overtime they work. The big question I have is why would anybody want to stay past 30 years? I know money is the answer, but don't they realize that after 30 years, that for at least half of the time they are working for free. The first $2500-$3000 they earn every month already belongs to them. Some of these older people seem to think that they are going to live forever on the large nestegg they have accumulated. The truth is that many end up dying soon after they finally do retire with their 40+ years of service, and they are in poor health when they finally do retire. My plan is to retire as soon as possible. If the 50 and 10 program is still around, then I plan on taking advantage of that program when I am elegible. I do enjoy the job I have now, but there are so many other things I want to do.

[Fatso]

WORK or RETIREE but it is not honorable to keep showing up for the sole intent and purpose of having a 'Working Retirement'

[Grandmaster B]

Elections are a year away and we start early, kicking each other in the ass. If your not from Sterling you will not understand.

 

This is what we do at Sterling for the 62 years we have been operating. A year before the election we get all the issues out there and beat each other up for a year and then they get thier shit together and all is forgiven and we move on.

 

If you have thin skin at Sterling, we will peel it off you and eat it.

 

We have way too many trades running the show in the union and they are getting cocky (not all)( just a few who are elected or appointed).

 

Next election production is going to put the "smack down" if things don't get staightend out quickly at Sterling.

 

Just wanted people to know, this is just how we deal at Sterling.

 

So when you put in for the 147 posting in a few months, think about it before you sign up. We play for keeps.

 

A "smack down"? Did you seeeeeeeeeeeeeee who won last weeks election?

[Stugots]

A "smack down"? Did you seeeeeeeeeeeeeee who won last weeks election?

 

 

Last weeks election was a joke. One of the lowest turn outs. Many members of 228 were on layoff and didn't even know what was going on. The vote between Mr Byrdak and Mr Lupo were close enough for a runoff in my opinion. And the two who got 50 votes or whatever played the role of Ralph Nader to a tee and split votes up. Nothing against Mr Byrdak but honestly. The man has 30 whatever years and is just now taking leadership classes and such. Next election mark my words Mr Lupo will be well represented at the ballot.

[Grandmaster B]

Last weeks election was a joke. One of the lowest turn outs. Many members of 228 were on layoff and didn't even know what was going on. The vote between Mr Byrdak and Mr Lupo were close enough for a runoff in my opinion. And the two who got 50 votes or whatever played the role of Ralph Nader to a tee and split votes up. Nothing against Mr Byrdak but honestly. The man has 30 whatever years and is just now taking leadership classes and such. Next election mark my words Mr Lupo will be well represented at the ballot.

I don't have the exact numbers of the election, but Larry won pretty easily. He is the best man for the job regardless of his seniority.

[Stugots]

I don't have the exact numbers of the election, but Larry won pretty easily. He is the best man for the job regardless of his seniority.

 

 

I think it was 300 some to 140 some in Byrdaks favor. But take out the two others and it couldve been different. I wish Larry the best he holds part of our future in his hands. Would it be possible to run a primary election and then the main election to weed out so called election spoilers from splitting up votes?

[the new eye]

I think it was 300 some to 140 some in Byrdaks favor. But take out the two others and it couldve been different. I wish Larry the best he holds part of our future in his hands. Would it be possible to run a primary election and then the main election to weed out so called election spoilers from splitting up votes?

spoilers didnt know you knew Nick and George they used to be my commiteemen in 17 and we kicked their asses out after one term .I like the primary idea did Nick vutaggio even put a flyer out what a joke

[the new eye]

So noone with less than 30 years knows what it was like before we gained benefits? And your foul language and name calling. Really shows your intellect dadzee. Somehow I doubt u were part of the brawl back in the 30s when Ford hired thugs to attack our founding brothers and sisters. The things they achieved were remarkable. Our founding members shed blood and even lost lives to give us what we have. So am I to interpret your comments as anyone who wasn't there in the beginning knows nothing? Really? Its laughable. Its time we stop acting like the only responsible level headed knowledgeable people are those who have all the seniority. Look at the government. Robert Byrd, Jesse Helms. Really? They are out of touch with the masses. Its not 1950 anymore.

Some of the older generation act like they were in those brawls in the 30s . Our founding members were all YOUNG MEN that were not affaid to rock the boat .

[TheEagle]

A "smack down"? Did you seeeeeeeeeeeeeee who won last weeks election?

 

 

Yes and I voted for Larry also. I am Production. He was and is the best canidate.

 

My only point is somone in the union better figure out how to make this fair between us or

 

YES the next election will be a complete and total smackdown.

 

1220 + utica production workers= 400 trades. In a general election which 80-90 percent of the vote will be showing up to vote this time.

 

All I am saying is that if we want to end retarded threads like this one and others, somone better step up and do the right thing with our elected committemen. Put the proper numbers back into the production side of the committe room. Issue resolved.

 

Remember 2 Production committeemen are already reduced and some people want to actually have an election for another tradesman on afternoons... THIS is bullshit until we get at least 1 production committeman back on days.

 

 

I know that Neil is trying to come up with a plan to make it fair so everyone feels comfortable with the situation we have so I am not too worried about it.

 

If we can get one of ours back on days than I agree, we should have a trade committeman on afternoons. IF not.

 

The smack down is coming!

I guarentee it. :shades:

Edited January 23, 2009 by TheEagle

[TheEagle]

Last weeks election was a joke. One of the lowest turn outs. Many members of 228 were on layoff and didn't even know what was going on. The vote between Mr Byrdak and Mr Lupo were close enough for a runoff in my opinion. And the two who got 50 votes or whatever played the role of Ralph Nader to a tee and split votes up. Nothing against Mr Byrdak but honestly. The man has 30 whatever years and is just now taking leadership classes and such. Next election mark my words Mr Lupo will be well represented at the ballot.

 

 

Well I like your passion. I do feel you may be a little misguided. Lupo is a great guy he needs to work his way up. Not run for a bargaining job right off the bat.

 

 

For instance:

I like Angelo Cichino alot. I would never vote for him for VP (yet) when he ran. However, when he ran for executive board he was my canidate hands down.

 

I think Lupo needs to take the same approach. Run for a starter position and get your feet wet. Do a term or two.

 

Then by all means run and he will be taken seriously.

 

You can't blame Lafta or Vultaggio for his loss. Inexperience was his short coming. If he gets some experience like Angelo Cichino and shows everyone he is willing to start from the bottom and work his way up he will get my vote for sure.

 

Vote turnout for mid term elections is in the 30-40 percent every election.

 

Just my opinion.