Local 600 taking guys off the line and putting them on as millwrights

[Thereasonwhy]

I have been hearing that some millwrights that gave up there trade and went back to production were ask to go back to being millwrights. Should this have been posted first to millwrights on the west side gen?

[wildosvt]

I have been hearing that some millwrights that gave up there trade and went back to production were ask to go back to being millwrights. Should this have been posted first to millwrights on the west side gen?

 

No, They were to be offered the spots first.

[Pioneer]

No, They were to be offered the spots first.

 

 

I don't think so. I don't think they are allowed back into their trade until all millwrights in-zone that are in JSP are placed.

[Maislebandit]

If they chose to go to production versus JSP, they are next up. If they flat out gave up their trade, there shall be no callback rights.

 

I know a guy who recently wanted to give up his trade to go back to his production job. Our local contended that their is now language in place stating that a tradesperson no longer has the option to do this. Only when faced with layoff can you opt production.

 

I don't agree with this policy. I think if you had a production spot, you should be able to go back once. No callback rights and maybe have preferential hiring when and if they hire off the street.

[Thereasonwhy]

There was no layoff. They gave up and went to production out of fear there plant was being sold and wanted to go back to a ford plant. so is it true they were offered jobs as a millwrights?

[Hi-lo Saline]

There was no layoff. They gave up and went to production out of fear there plant was being sold and wanted to go back to a ford plant. so is it true they were offered jobs as a millwrights?

I'm NOT in trades, but remember hearing when we left Saline there was a clause for trades that went to DTP as production ,would get first dibs on going back to trades as opening occured . I don't know the specifics though.

[Thereasonwhy]

Sounds like bs to me. There is no way they should get asked to go back they gave it up now they have to wait until all millwrights are placed in jsp before they get a shot. Or maybe this is just another way to side step the system.

[level]

Sounds like bs to me. There is no way they should get asked to go back they gave it up now they have to wait until all millwrights are placed in jsp before they get a shot. Or maybe this is just another way to side step the system.

 

Those provisions were changed last contract due to the extreme amount of excess tradespersons. Trades who take a bust to avoid being laid off are considered to be in "prefential placement" and are called back as part of step 1. Any busted back trades are recalled as if they were laid off....since that is what they were...laid off from their trade. This along with any RTBU rights are prior to/included in step 1.

 

What you also must understand in this is the conditions they transferred under. If they took a moving allowance or not....which plant is their home plant, etc. all makes a difference.

 

Just because someone decides that they want to go back and work the line rather than be laid off shouldn't mean they lose their right of recall...you may disagree...but that is because disagreement suits your situation.......if the shoe was on the other foot.... you would surely agree.

 

I would like to think that we should do what is best for the trades group as a whole......and not force our brothers trying to get back to a "blue" status to the end of the line.......it is not their fault their plants are closing and/or being sold.

 

They had a decision to make, and although they took a bust and had to go back to production....they at least had the opportunity to pick where they wanted to go and wait for a recall...rather than sit in JSP and maybe be forced to a location they didn't want...or to the street. Many of them did it because they wanted to transfer with their production spouses. I would probably have done the same thing myself if faced with such a decision.

 

I understand the anger of the whole situation...and I am not trying to change how you feel......just trying to inform you of why the change was made.

[dukeofearl]

Those provisions were changed last contract due to the extreme amount of excess tradespersons. Trades who take a bust to avoid being laid off are considered to be in "prefential placement" and are called back as part of step 1. Any busted back trades are recalled as if they were laid off....since that is what they were...laid off from their trade. This along with any RTBU rights are prior to/included in step 1.

 

What you also must understand in this is the conditions they transferred under. If they took a moving allowance or not....which plant is their home plant, etc. all makes a difference.

 

Just because someone decides that they want to go back and work the line rather than be laid off shouldn't mean they lose their right of recall...you may disagree...but that is because disagreement suits your situation.......if the shoe was on the other foot.... you would surely agree.

 

I would like to think that we should do what is best for the trades group as a whole......and not force our brothers trying to get back to a "blue" status to the end of the line.......it is not their fault their plants are closing and/or being sold.

 

They had a decision to make, and although they took a bust and had to go back to production....they at least had the opportunity to pick where they wanted to go and wait for a recall...rather than sit in JSP and maybe be forced to a location they didn't want...or to the street. Many of them did it because they wanted to transfer with their production spouses. I would probably have done the same thing myself if faced with such a decision.

 

I understand the anger of the whole situation...and I am not trying to change how you feel......just trying to inform you of why the change was made.

so what you are saying they can come back to there tools in the plant that they are working on the line at and fill the openings befor the plant puts up a in zone bid for those opening.

[whereswaldo]

so what you are saying they can come back to there tools in the plant that they are working on the line at and fill the openings befor the plant puts up a in zone bid for those opening.

Yep...............

[dukeofearl]

Those provisions were changed last contract due to the extreme amount of excess tradespersons. Trades who take a bust to avoid being laid off are considered to be in "prefential placement" and are called back as part of step 1. Any busted back trades are recalled as if they were laid off....since that is what they were...laid off from their trade. This along with any RTBU rights are prior to/included in step 1.

 

What you also must understand in this is the conditions they transferred under. If they took a moving allowance or not....which plant is their home plant, etc. all makes a difference.

 

Just because someone decides that they want to go back and work the line rather than be laid off shouldn't mean they lose their right of recall...you may disagree...but that is because disagreement suits your situation.......if the shoe was on the other foot.... you would surely agree.

 

I would like to think that we should do what is best for the trades group as a whole......and not force our brothers trying to get back to a "blue" status to the end of the line.......it is not their fault their plants are closing and/or being sold.

 

They had a decision to make, and although they took a bust and had to go back to production....they at least had the opportunity to pick where they wanted to go and wait for a recall...rather than sit in JSP and maybe be forced to a location they didn't want...or to the street. Many of them did it because they wanted to transfer with their production spouses. I would probably have done the same thing myself if faced with such a decision.

 

I understand the anger of the whole situation...and I am not trying to change how you feel......just trying to inform you of why the change was made.

Well if what you say is correct than trades that are at a plant that is closing or being sold or an ach plant should be canvassed from high to low to see who wants to go in jsp. Once in jsp

go right back to production and bid as a production worker get to the knew plant and wait for a opening. I mean what you are saying you are punishing the seniority employee. If you are

at a plant that is going away and they put the bottom 15 millwrights in jsp and they all go back to production and than there is a bid for 347 to dtp and they all go on the line and work as

production workers there will never be a millwright bid in zone untill all 15 of these millwrights are back on there tools at there new plant. In the mean time 10 more millwrights go into

jsp with more seniority than the first 15 but have no place to go because there will be no bids untill all the junior seniority employees are back on there tools. The seniority employee is

being punished because he had enough seniority to keep working at his closing plant . What about the trades that hired in as a tradesmen and can't go back to production when he hits

jsp with his 20 years and can't go anywhere untill all the junior employees are placed with there 4 or5 or 6 years in the trades. It sounds to me like somebody found a back door to

protect there no seniority kid and just don't give a damn about seniority or anybody else. All we have is seniority when you start finding back doors to take it away it a very sorry fucking day.

[Thereasonwhy]

The only back door thats getting something here is the millwrights siting in gen now on the west side. The plant they came from was being sold so they did that on their own. They did not have to make a choice gen or work. A production posting came up and they jumped on it out of fear so now they get to go ahead of all others in line in jsp. Its not right. The rules are changing all the time. There was a skilled tradesman on the east side who put in for production job got it and was working at the new ford plant already when they told him he had to return to jsp because he displaced a production worker and he could not do that because he was a skilled worker.

[Firefly]

Wasn't there a similar case involving a couple of female I/E's last year at Lima?

[whiteford]

Well if what you say is correct than trades that are at a plant that is closing or being sold or an ach plant should be canvassed from high to low to see who wants to go in jsp. Once in jsp

go right back to production and bid as a production worker get to the knew plant and wait for a opening. I mean what you are saying you are punishing the seniority employee. If you are

at a plant that is going away and they put the bottom 15 millwrights in jsp and they all go back to production and than there is a bid for 347 to dtp and they all go on the line and work as

production workers there will never be a millwright bid in zone untill all 15 of these millwrights are back on there tools at there new plant. In the mean time 10 more millwrights go into

jsp with more seniority than the first 15 but have no place to go because there will be no bids untill all the junior seniority employees are back on there tools. The seniority employee is

being punished because he had enough seniority to keep working at his closing plant . What about the trades that hired in as a tradesmen and can't go back to production when he hits

jsp with his 20 years and can't go anywhere untill all the junior employees are placed with there 4 or5 or 6 years in the trades. It sounds to me like somebody found a back door to

protect there no seniority kid and just don't give a damn about seniority or anybody else. All we have is seniority when you start finding back doors to take it away it a very sorry fucking day.

 

What happens if & when we go from JSP to layoff. I know for a fact that there is 30 MW with less seniority than me at Rouge. We get layed off our time stops and the lower seniority MW gain seniority over us? What the

[whiteford]

No, They were to be offered the spots first.

 

If you are in JSP or working production you are to be placed back by seniority. You are not to be offered a trades opening over a senior trades member sitting in JSP. This is how the new system is to work to make it fair for all. This is how it was explained to me. If these (Production)MW have lower seniority and are being placed frist it is not right.

[level]

If you are in JSP or working production you are to be placed back by seniority. You are not to be offered a trades opening over a senior trades member sitting in JSP. This is how the new system is to work to make it fair for all. This is how it was explained to me. If these (Production)MW have lower seniority and are being placed frist it is not right.

 

I don't think you read my post entirely correct.

 

I said specifically that it mattered how they transferred. Why did I say that? Because if you bust back under the new language, and let's say you take a transfer of ops.....your receiving plant is now your home plant, depending on if you took the extra cash option upon transfer.

 

Now you are in your new plant as a laid off tradesmen........they(your plant) puts in a requistion to add someone to your trade......do you think that someone from another plant.....in or out of zone.........should come before someone from that very plant who is laid off from that very trade?

 

It has never....ever.......been that way for laid off trades. The new language considers them laid off but temporarily working in production.

 

Step 1 was always to "recall plant employees from layoff" and "recall RTBU'S" prior to any inzone or out of zone posting. That is not new......it is not a back door for someone's kid......

[whereswaldo]

Now you are in your new plant as a laid off tradesmen........they(your plant) puts in a requistion to add someone to your trade......do you think that someone from another plant.....in or out of zone.........should come before someone from that very plant who is laid off from that very trade?

Absolutely, if they are in JSP they should be recalled by seniority per their zone. We have read your post and many are saying its Bullshit. But thanks for clarifying anyway. :slap: :slap:

 

Those in closing or selling plants should also have gotten postings. So what happens when a plant finally sells or closes. You could have dozens of higher sen. running out their SUB/Unempl. while low never miss a beat.

[dukeofearl]

I don't think you read my post entirely correct.

 

I said specifically that it mattered how they transferred. Why did I say that? Because if you bust back under the new language, and let's say you take a transfer of ops.....your receiving plant is now your home plant, depending on if you took the extra cash option upon transfer.

 

Now you are in your new plant as a laid off tradesmen........they(your plant) puts in a requistion to add someone to your trade......do you think that someone from another plant.....in or out of zone.........should come before someone from that very plant who is laid off from that very trade?

 

It has never....ever.......been that way for laid off trades. The new language considers them laid off but temporarily working in production.

 

Step 1 was always to "recall plant employees from layoff" and "recall RTBU'S" prior to any inzone or out of zone posting. That is not new......it is not a back door for someone's kid......

Ok so its clear I hired in as a tradesman and get put in jsp with 20 years as a millwright with someone who had 2 years as a production worker and 6 years as a millwright. When we get

put in there is 350 production bids for dtp and the man with 2 years in production and 6 years as a millwright goes back to production to be able to bid and gets the bid and goes to dtp as

a production worker and than 2 months later theres a bid for millwrights at dtp he gets to go ahead of the the millwright with 20 years in jsp ???????? If you don't call that a back door

deal i don't know what you would call it.

[Pioneer]

If you don't call that a back door

deal i don't know what you would call it.

 

 

It's not a back door. It's called being sold out.

[whiteford]

I don't think you read my post entirely correct.

 

I said specifically that it mattered how they transferred. Why did I say that? Because if you bust back under the new language, and let's say you take a transfer of ops.....your receiving plant is now your home plant, depending on if you took the extra cash option upon transfer.

 

Now you are in your new plant as a laid off tradesmen........they(your plant) puts in a requistion to add someone to your trade......do you think that someone from another plant.....in or out of zone.........should come before someone from that very plant who is laid off from that very trade?

 

It has never....ever.......been that way for laid off trades. The new language considers them laid off but temporarily working in production.

 

Step 1 was always to "recall plant employees from layoff" and "recall RTBU'S" prior to any inzone or out of zone posting. That is not new......it is not a back door for someone's kid......

 

Well thank's for clearing this up. But I also have to agree that this is Bullshit.

Sounds like a no brainer to me that is if you have worked production before. But some of us have not. Some were hired in as trades. I guess some of us are just

[dukeofearl]

I don't think you read my post entirely correct.

 

I said specifically that it mattered how they transferred. Why did I say that? Because if you bust back under the new language, and let's say you take a transfer of ops.....your receiving plant is now your home plant, depending on if you took the extra cash option upon transfer.

 

Now you are in your new plant as a laid off tradesmen........they(your plant) puts in a requistion to add someone to your trade......do you think that someone from another plant.....in or out of zone.........should come before someone from that very plant who is laid off from that very trade?

 

It has never....ever.......been that way for laid off trades. The new language considers them laid off but temporarily working in production.

 

Step 1 was always to "recall plant employees from layoff" and "recall RTBU'S" prior to any inzone or out of zone posting. That is not new......it is not a back door for someone's kid......

When are trades hit jsp and wanted to go back to production they were told they had to be in jsp for 2 years first and then and only then could they go back to production. Can all

of those people grieve lost wages ???????????????? I bet not all the people that would of hit jsp because of being bumped by trades AND WERE PROTECTED BECAUSE trades could

not go back to production are now in jsp themselfs so we can change the rules now so they can go right away.

[hardball]

Those provisions were changed last contract due to the extreme amount of excess tradespersons. Trades who take a bust to avoid being laid off are considered to be in "prefential placement" and are called back as part of step 1. Any busted back trades are recalled as if they were laid off....since that is what they were...laid off from their trade. This along with any RTBU rights are prior to/included in step 1.

 

What you also must understand in this is the conditions they transferred under. If they took a moving allowance or not....which plant is their home plant, etc. all makes a difference.

 

Just because someone decides that they want to go back and work the line rather than be laid off shouldn't mean they lose their right of recall...you may disagree...but that is because disagreement suits your situation.......if the shoe was on the other foot.... you would surely agree.

 

I would like to think that we should do what is best for the trades group as a whole......and not force our brothers trying to get back to a "blue" status to the end of the line.......it is not their fault their plants are closing and/or being sold.

 

They had a decision to make, and although they took a bust and had to go back to production....they at least had the opportunity to pick where they wanted to go and wait for a recall...rather than sit in JSP and maybe be forced to a location they didn't want...or to the street. Many of them did it because they wanted to transfer with their production spouses. I would probably have done the same thing myself if faced with such a decision.

 

I understand the anger of the whole situation...and I am not trying to change how you feel......just trying to inform you of why the change was made.

tHANK YOU for telling us that it was a contract change would you be so good to tell us where we could find it in the contract volume page and article once again THAnk you

[Thereasonwhy]

tHANK YOU for telling us that it was a contract change would you be so good to tell us where we could find it in the contract volume page and article once again THAnk you

 

This crap changes by the day. There are different rules at different times for different people. This needs to be fixed. I will state again these tradesmen were not forced into jsp they chose to go back to production at a ford plant than stay working as a tradesman at a ach plant.

[mrballsonya]

Wow!!!. These technicalities just keep on getting better and better.

 

For me, I think this latest loophole is the straw that breaks the Camels back.

 

I've now, officially given up any hope of ever getting placed at another Ford facility. How does this garbage keep happening? Seniority is one of the hallmarks of unionism, So why are these Tradesmen able to bypass arguably the most important tenet of our brotherhood?

 

Apparently, while I've been sitting in JSP waiting for the seniority due process placement system to occur; others have been scouring the new contract language, finding anyway they can, to bypass trade seniority.

 

Kudos, to those that took advantage of this obvious loophole. I must say I'm very angry, but I'm also pretty impressed with their advantageous behavior and obvious acumen for contractual understanding. In fact, I think these seniority by-passers might want to take a long, hard look at a future career in Law.

 

Hey... Speaking of Law, I think it might be time to start rallying the troops, and retain a good labor lawyer. I'm sure I won't be the only one pissed off about this.

 

It's now obvious to me, that the UAW (be it at a local or international level) FAILED TO PROPERLY REPRESENT ME. If the UAW chose to re-write a portion of the contract, with a provision that allowed possible circumvention of the Trade Seniority placement hierarchy, than they should've made the aforementioned changes crystal clear. Maybe International did issue a Local update mandate, but at our local we never heard anything other than the usual "Contract Highlight rhetoric". If this loophole had been exposed to all members, I guarantee you that this situation wouldn't even be an issue right now. Why? Because the higher seniority employees, would've done exactly what these guys did... and thus, all would be right in our tiny seniority driven world.

 

This really is, yet another low point for our Union.

Edited January 30, 2009 by mrballsonya

[dukeofearl]

Wow!!!. These technicalities just keep on getting better and better.

 

For me, I think this latest loophole is the straw that breaks the Camels back.

 

I've now, officially given up any hope of ever getting placed at another Ford facility. How does this garbage keep happening? Seniority is one of the hallmarks of unionism, So why are these Tradesmen able to bypass arguably the most important tenet of our brotherhood?

 

Apparently, while I've been sitting in JSP waiting for the seniority due process placement system to occur; others have been scouring the new contract language, finding anyway they can, to bypass trade seniority.

 

Kudos, to those that took advantage of this obvious loophole. I must say I'm very angry, but I'm also pretty impressed with their advantageous behavior and obvious acumen for contractual understanding. In fact, I think these seniority by-passers might want to take a long, hard look at a future career in Law.

 

Hey... Speaking of Law, I think it might be time to start rallying the troops, and retain a good labor lawyer. I'm sure I won't be the only one pissed off about this.

 

It's now obvious to me, that the UAW (be it at a local or international level) FAILED TO PROPERLY REPRESENT ME. If the UAW chose to re-write a portion of the contract, with a provision that allowed possible circumvention of the Trade Seniority placement hierarchy, than they should've made the aforementioned changes crystal clear. Maybe International did issue a Local update mandate, but at our local we never heard anything other than the usual "Contract Highlight rhetoric". If this loophole had been exposed to all members, I guarantee you that this situation wouldn't even be an issue right now. Why? Because the higher seniority employees, would've done exactly what these guys did... and thus, all would be right in our tiny seniority driven world.

 

This really is, yet another low point for our Union.

I'am on board with that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!