macattak1 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks for reminding me of the nightmares when I bought the F-350. 6.0 been there done that. Still love it! Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Selby Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 With the problems we've had with our '03Runner, Toyota quality doesn't mean shit. From day one it has been losing coolant and no one can figure out where it's going, the wife is afraid to use the sun roof because it's broken in the open position 3 times now. Had to replace the A/C compressor and the front passenger side brake caliper all before 50,000 miles along with other miscellaneous problems. The interior is not holding up well at all. Toyota quality has gone down hill in the past few years. The wife had a '85 Toyota pick-up before we got married and that thing was indestructible and it's still on the road today. She was expecting the same quality from the 4Skinner. I can honestly say this has been the worst new vehicle we have ever owned so far. Everyone makes a few bad one's but I have been seeing more unhappy Toyota owners lately. The only good thing I can say is the paint quality is outstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Wife's best friends brother's Civic just died at 97,000 miles. Mechanic said the new engine it needed would cost more than it is worth. Just hooked him up with an X-Plan PIN, and he drove home tonight with a new Focus. Import quality? I don't see it. Especially since my '00 Focus has 118k on it, and is going strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) I owned a 2000 Acura Integra that was the third worst car I've ever owned. It had cam seal leaks, multiple electrical issues and the tranny was acting up when I decided to trade it in. Would I buy another Acura? Absolutely! (provided they get away from their current design language) I realize that my Acura wasn't representative of all Acuras. Edited March 18, 2009 by TomServo92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 On to the Taurus. I dont like the hood on it. Looks like what they did with the Chryslers does it not? Everyone here hates the Sebring, but is that not the Sebring hood on the new Taurus? ? Does the new Taurus have as much trunk space as the current? To be honest, I like the current body style. It could have more pizazz like the New one could look less like a Sebring. But that's just me. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 OK. I found this web site. In looking at these pics the car does look awesome. However, I am not wild about this and I am not sure I like the lower center stack section. Kind of huge looking. But the front and side sure are awesome looking. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgazak Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 My wife has an 07 Edge AWD that has had the PTU leak. The first time it was repaired was a little over a year ago and the second time was just a couple months ago after the leak had re-appeared. It seems to be okay now and the dealer has only tried replacing the seal. The PTU unit is still the original. Other than this issue, the Edge has been great. Considering the 07 Edge was an all new model with an all new drive train (D35, 6F and AWD unit), I can't complain. Mine is also a pretty early build (January 2007). I'd be interested to know the build date of mazda626's Taurus. There certainly were teething problems with this new AWD unit, but it appears mainly to be with the 07's and maybe the early 08's. I just compared TrueDelta's ratings and Consumer Reports' ratings for models with this unit. The 07 Edge and Fusion AWD models show a high rate of Drive System repairs. The 08 Edge, Fusion, Taurus and Taurus X all show very low rate of repair for the Drive System. Granted the 08's are newer, but the 07's started having these issues relatively early on so I think it is a fair comparison. Overall, all these models are rated average or above for reliability and are recommended. So... mazda626, hang in there. Hopefully you have a good dealer who knows what they are doing and can fix this correctly. Good luck and keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazda626 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) The tone of the post seems to be a typical "mine leaked and ergo ALL like awd equipped will leak and are junk". Folks around here have seen this kind of post before and most know where it's going. 30 out of 400,000+ and their is a problem? Their is a problem because the Internet allows arm-chair people to act out like children. If you look at TSB 08-12-03 you will see the PTU seal leak is common to the 2008 Taurus X, 2008 Taurus, 2007-2008 Edge, 2007-2008 MKX and 2008 Sable. So this confirms that a total of 5 vehicles have had this problem? TSB 08-12-03 http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...ost&id=8860 Edited March 18, 2009 by mazda626 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 uhhh, nooo, I used the 30 people that you used.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Does the 2009 Edge use the same PTU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazda626 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) I'd be interested to know the build date of mazda626's Taurus. The build date on the B-pillar sticker says 06/07. I just picked the car up from the dealer two hours ago (in between making posts to this topic ); they just put a new PTU (part# 7T4Z-7251-D ). I hope this is the redesigned part. Does anyone know if the last letter indicates the iteration of the design? I'm asking because in the Ford Edge forum someone said 7251-A is the newest part. I asked how much this would cost if it wasn't under warranty. The lady said it would have been $2300. Wow! Ford is losing serious money on this car. Edited March 18, 2009 by mazda626 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) PTU went ptooey? someone said 7251-A is the newest part A is the first major variant from the basic part number, with others like B, C, etc., added by engineering as required. Sometimes, the difference is an improvement, other times, it's, say, the same water-pump, but with a different heater hose location. But, the D-suffix probably indicates an improved part. Edited March 18, 2009 by Edstock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 The lady said it would have been $2300. Wow! Ford is losing serious money on this car. It doesn't cost Ford $2300 to change it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Ford doesn't pay the dealership $2300! If you believe that you believe the tech gets paid $95 an hour. God I hated that: "What's your shop rate?" $75 an hour (this is a few years ago in S. Dak) "Your mechanic gets $75 an hour!?! That's right Zippy, we give it all to the tech! Screw the electric bill, taxes, etc. The other one is "just have another dealer GIVE you the part to fix my car." Sure, it's just like going next door to the neighbors for a cup of sugar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazda626 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 It doesn't cost Ford $2300 to change it out. What would the actual cost be then? My car has been up on the hoist three times for this problem. Don't you think this adds up? Somebody has to pay for this, even if I didn't because it was covered under warranty. Is this PTU made by BorgWarner? Do they pay Ford back for these repairs? I see today that Ford settled their dispute with Navistar which centered around warranty costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Ford doesn't pay the dealership $2300! If you believe that you believe the tech gets paid $95 an hour. God I hated that: "What's your shop rate?" $75 an hour (this is a few years ago in S. Dak) "Your mechanic gets $75 an hour!?! That's right Zippy, we give it all to the tech! Screw the electric bill, taxes, etc. The other one is "just have another dealer GIVE you the part to fix my car." Sure, it's just like going next door to the neighbors for a cup of sugar. You've forgotten the part down at the bottom of the bill where they charge you for shop cleanup supplies and disposal fees and nuts and bolts whether it was used or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 What would the actual cost be then? My car has been up on the hoist three times for this problem. Don't you think this adds up? Somebody has to pay for this, even if I didn't because it was covered under warranty. Is this PTU made by BorgWarner? Do they pay Ford back for these repairs? I see today that Ford settled their dispute with Navistar which centered around warranty costs. The first person to own it paid for it when he bought the car. Each one has a figured in warranty cost. The less warrant on a product line, the more profit the company makes. It makes a backwards travel all the way thru the plant to whomever Ford buys equipment from, Each piece of equipment also has a warranty to it and Ford pays for that too. a $15 million line might have $1 million budgeted in it's cost for warranty repairs on it til the warranty is up. EVERYONE pays for everything, nothing is free. you can paypal me for this answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazda626 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) The less warrant on a product line, the more profit the company makes. I could have told you that without getting up from my internet arm-chair. It is well known in the software industry that a bug in your program will cost magnitudes more in support costs than the original cost of doing things right and avoid introducing the bug in the first place. I think a similar thing is happens with automotive warranty repairs; if Ford designs and builds high quality vehicles it seems obvious that the warranty costs would be lower and more predictable, allowing them to price their vehicles with lower margins and be more competitive. I don't think they planned to fix the $2300 PTU on my car at the time they built it, so part of their profit from me is up in smoke. I want Ford to succeed and turn a fair profit. I don't want to play games to see who gets screwed by a defective design when the warranty expires. Edited March 18, 2009 by mazda626 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Ford saved something like a billion bucks on warranty expenses last year, if that answers any questions you have about Ford quality and where it's headed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navlys32 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 After reading this. I'm glad i live in an area where I dont need AWD. Sucks the SHO is AWD only. Is it a faulty seal or the dealership's inability to install one of these seals, since its seams like its a tricky install and only the best mechanic can fix it right the first time. Does mazda or volvo use the same PTU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazda626 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) Does mazda or volvo use the same PTU? This question is partially answered in this thread: http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...showtopic=29571 Edited March 18, 2009 by mazda626 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 After reading this. I'm glad i live in an area where I dont need AWD. Sucks the SHO is AWD only. Is it a faulty seal or the dealership's inability to install one of these seals, since its seams like its a tricky install and only the best mechanic can fix it right the first time. Does mazda or volvo use the same PTU? If you have to have repeated repairs to the same problem, it will usually indicate that the person/people doing the repair, are the problem. As was posted earlier in the thread, there is a very specific repair proceedure for this issue. Failure to use said proceedure will give a higher refailure rate. We owned an auto repair and towing business for 9 years. It is very difficult to convince a mechanic, that he does not know the proper proceedure for fixing something. As for the failure rate, I would venture that it is probably less than 1%............... or a statistical anomoly. When the 5.4's were having the plug problems, you would have sworn that EVERY F-series vehicle on the face of the earth, had a plug spit out................. and cause the death of the owner, or worse, the owners small child................ standing beside the truck. In reality, the actual numbers were also less than 1% of production. Small issues look huge on the internet.............. because everyone who has a problem, goes there to bitch about it. As an aside, I can say, with actual experience, that American auto owners are much more critical of problems with their vehicle. They have heard, over and over, that their vehicles are inferior to the imports. Thus, if they have a screw fall out of a piece of trim, the vehicle is immediately a POS, that they knew they shouldn't have bought in the first place. On the other side, is the import owner who actually has a major issue, like a complete failure of a critical part. This is immediately forgiven, since this must have been an anomoly.................. as no other ____________ (place perfect import of choice) has ever had any problem of any sort. Thus, it is still the most reliable thing ever built. I lived it. I will have my Taurus SHO (my husband has already picked out personalized plates for it). My Fords have always treated me well............... and I treat them well also. My Mazda Tribute treated me very well (I realize it is a Ford Escape), but I was very displeased with the service from Mazda dealerships. While it didn't need much while I owned it.............. any time I had to deal with Mazda, I would end up pissed off, and having to yell at someone on the phone. The biggest problem was the lying. That said, I would still own Mazda's, as I like their products. I would just need to find a decent dealership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) I was very displeased with the service from Mazda dealerships. While it didn't need much while I owned it.............. any time I had to deal with Mazda, I would end up pissed off, and having to yell at someone on the phone. The biggest problem was the lying. That said, I would still own Mazda's, as I like their products. I would just need to find a decent dealership. I will second that one the service at the Mazda dealerships sucks ass. We have had the Mazda 6 wagon since April 05 now. There have been issues fan relay quit heated DS mirrior cracked , Exhaust manifold leak Water pump seal failure tail gate rubbing on the bumper. The fan relay took 3 visits for them to figure it out. The DS heated mirrior took 5 visits for them to fix. And twice they installed an unheated mirrior. The exhaust manifold leak took me going to the delaership to show them where it was after 3 visits. Not only was the back of the cylinder head coated in soot it is was audible. Water pump they got right in one visit. The tailgate rubbing issue took 3 fricken years for them to fix that. And yes we tried using the the other mazda dealers here in town and they are just as cluless. Mazda service is absolutly horrible. Yes I understand that vehicles have issues things break and screw up. No big deal No piece of equipemnt is 100% perfect. But the after purchase service will make or break a repeat sale. Will we ever buy anouther Mazda ? NEVER , not cause of the vehicles but because the the dealers service depts here suck. Matthew Edited March 18, 2009 by matthewq4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 In reality, the actual numbers were also less than 1% of production. Small issues look huge on the internet.............. because everyone who has a problem, goes there to bitch about it. The internet is just becomes a microscope when there is a problem, even though there might be a total of 5 problems like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkapeGote Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Sup, Trust me, imports are no better. My BMW has had just over $17,000 in repairs since I bought it new. My mother is a visiting nurse, looks after people after out patient surgery. She has an AWD Edge, I will see if she has any problems. She puts thousands of miles every year on cars. Skape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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