Ford To Cops: CV is Out

[Sherminator98]

There are a couple question to be answered here:

 

First off, could Ford even make enough Tauri for both PD and regular market? We'll say the new Taurus is well received and sells like 100-120K units a year (when the economy is good etc etc) and they are talking about putting the Explorer in Chicago, which itself should be good for 100K units a year (esp if they can get 30 MPG out of the I4 EB model)...are they going to even have enough room to make a PI version of the Taurus? If they do, hopefully they'll keep a cap on sales so it doesn't impact Regular Taurus, or make it some sort of oddball some how that it doesn't affect the Taurus resale value.

[matthewq4b]

Or more appropriately, SRA RWD. There's a lot to be said for a simple suspension and torque tubes vs. two half shafts, four CV joints (and boots), and more suspension arms and (IIRC) alignment points.

 

Seemingly, any IRS GRWD would be subject to the same frailties as a FWD cop car & the Charger---although the Charger also suffers from the many deficiencies inflicted on it by Chrysler's far less stringent coachwork standards.

 

To a point, FWD suspensions are more fragile than than their RWD IRS counter parts. Just due to the fact that the wheels are not fixed in position and have to turn. The Control Blade IRS is considerably stronger than any FWD Independent suspension in the same class. Yes IRS suspensions will never be as strong as a SRA in the same application but generally are stronger than independent FWD suspensions used the same vehicle class.

 

 

And I totally agree the Chargers biggest down fall is Chrysler's typical shoddy coach work.

 

An independent suspension FWD could be made to handle SS applications but it would have to be a SL A arm design Or at the very least a modified mac strut, a conventional strut suspension will just not cut it.

 

So far to date as far as I'm aware No true A arm FWD has had wide spread use in SS applications in NA.

 

It is unfortunate Ford did not fit the D3's with a double wishbone front suspension it would have solved about the only weak spot on the D3 chassis in the FWD applications.

If Ford had done that they could have easily beefed that up for SS service with stronger arms, Spindles, wheel bearings, ball joints and revised suspension geometry.

 

With the current bearing plate on the top of the strut there is no way to measurably beef it up with out some sheet metal and structural changes cause the only way to really strengthen it is to go to a larger diameter bearing plate. Personally I'm surprised that Ford choose to revisit this design after the issues with it in the original Taurus. There is nothing inherently wrong with it it is just not an overly durable design in high impact loading applications a situation that happens frequently in SS Service.

 

And to replace the bearing plates requires the front suspension to be almost fully disassembled.

 

Matthew

[rmc523]

Interesting how the article stress that while Ford is leaning heavily toward Taurus, it's keeping its options open in the post-CV area. Well, if it's not CV and it's not Taurus then it's gotta be something they don't currently sell in the US.

 

Could be a variation of the next-gen Explorer. :shrug:

 

 

The new Taurus has a serious design flaw when it comes to being a police car. 3" less rear leg room !

 

When you put the cage in, where are prisoners going to put their feet ?

 

That's their problem as far as I'm concerned. I could care less if they were comfortable in the police car if they committed a crime.

[sullynd]

I still say sedan versions of the Flex and MKT could be used for police and livery while not affecting the retail of the Taurus/MKS

 

Chicago Police is supposed to be moving to the Tahoe.

Edited August 29, 2009 by sullynd

[rmc523]

I still say sedan versions of the Flex and MKT could be used for police and livery while not affecting the retail of the Taurus/MKS

 

Chicago Police is supposed to be moving to the Tahoe.

 

I'm starting to see Tahoe [Florida] State Troopers and [broward] Sherriff's Office vehicles around here....

[twintornados]

...and a 4X2 Expedition wouldn't work why?? :shades:

[ANTAUS]

Our police chief did a presentation for us in relation to department budget for the coming year, and I did ask about the replacement of their units and the life expectancy, etc. He stated that we are keeping them (not so much in years) but around 90K they make the decision whether to dump them, or hold on for a bit more. Particularly if they have had a bit more repairs than expected. He mentioned one Impala that has 92K miles they are dumping because of transmission failure. They mainly have Impalas (one sits in front of my driveway at night actually) and a few Malibus where are used as undercover. He stated "in the old days", meaning about 10 years ago, the dept. would change them in about a 2 years cycle.

 

I asked if we could possibly look into Fords, but supposedly our maintenance crew has experience with GM's moreso, and extra parts around the repair center of course. I know my county does CV's though.

[RichardJensen]

To a point, FWD suspensions are more fragile than than their RWD IRS counter parts. Just due to the fact that the wheels are not fixed in position and have to turn. The Control Blade IRS is considerably stronger than any FWD Independent suspension in the same class. Yes IRS suspensions will never be as strong as a SRA in the same application but generally are stronger than independent FWD suspensions used the same vehicle class.

 

 

And I totally agree the Chargers biggest down fall is Chrysler's typical shoddy coach work.

 

An independent suspension FWD could be made to handle SS applications but it would have to be a SL A arm design Or at the very least a modified mac strut, a conventional strut suspension will just not cut it.

 

So far to date as far as I'm aware No true A arm FWD has had wide spread use in SS applications in NA.

 

It is unfortunate Ford did not fit the D3's with a double wishbone front suspension it would have solved about the only weak spot on the D3 chassis in the FWD applications.

If Ford had done that they could have easily beefed that up for SS service with stronger arms, Spindles, wheel bearings, ball joints and revised suspension geometry.

 

With the current bearing plate on the top of the strut there is no way to measurably beef it up with out some sheet metal and structural changes cause the only way to really strengthen it is to go to a larger diameter bearing plate. Personally I'm surprised that Ford choose to revisit this design after the issues with it in the original Taurus. There is nothing inherently wrong with it it is just not an overly durable design in high impact loading applications a situation that happens frequently in SS Service.

 

And to replace the bearing plates requires the front suspension to be almost fully disassembled.

 

Matthew

I would think that the weak link in FWD/RWD would be the outer CV joint as the inner CV joint front <> rear shouldn't have a major difference in articulation, nor would the front IRS ball joints be disadvantaged due to the presence of a drive shaft.

 

However, I do think (going to your other point) that the transverse engine placement & transaxle compact the space available for the suspension, which, in turn, limits what you can do as far as a severe service setup.

 

I don't think you could put in a severe service double wishbone suspension in the Taurus. I don't think you've got clearance for a decent sized sturdy upper arm. The CD3 has something like a double wishbone setup, but the upper arm looks pretty insubstantial.

[rmc523]

...and a 4X2 Expedition wouldn't work why?? :shades:

 

My local PDs use a few Expeditions - not for patrol work, but they still use them.

[ausrutherford]

remember a few months ago when Falrley said he wanted a rwd crossover to take the place of it?

[rmc523]

remember a few months ago when Falrley said he wanted a rwd crossover to take the place of it?

 

That would be either (perhaps) Territory or some secret version of the Explorer....

[Bored of Pisteon]

Police barely keep their cruisers mroe ethan 1 year and 25,000 miles.

 

Depends on the juristiction, and where you are at. I notice more Wimpala's being used.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Bored of Pisteon

[old_fairmont_wagon]

The Expedition is generally not well received by PDs. The officers/agents that drive them don't like them and the fleet managers seem to believe that they have higher operating costs.

[Bored of Pisteon]

I don't ever want to see this anywhere on the roads in this country.

 

[Mark B. Morrow]

I don't ever want to see this anywhere on the roads in this country.

 

 

 

You wouldn't have to see it very long in your rearview mirror.

[zipnzap]

I think the obvious solution is to cut off suspects' feet if they don't fit. Either that or stuff them into the trunk. It's pretty large.

Twist them into a pretzel and shove their feet up their azz!

 

Sorry...I have no sympathy for prisoners.

 

You guys realize a lot of them are not even guilty of wrongdoing, right? Hence the term 'suspects.' Going further, a lot of witnesses and non-suspects are still taken in for questioning.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

I don't ever want to see this anywhere on the roads in this country.

 

 

LOL Criminals would.

 

Could use it as Police rubbish garbage trash bin whatever you call it Stateside.

 

I don't know why they call it a "smart" car, your as good as dead in a car crash.

 

What's "smart" about that, its cage might survive but you won't. "Deathtrap" sounds a more honest name?

Edited August 29, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds

[theDuff]

I imagine Ford will try to beef up the Taurus but the basic front end design is not strong enough for severe service especially the upper strut mounting that is the same design as the last gen of Taurus and was that vehicles single biggest weak point. And the current platform is showing the same durability issues in higher mile units. That design can not feasibly be beefed up without a complete redesign of the upper strut mounting

 

Matthew

 

 

I disagree. I'm interested to know where you've inspected high mile severe duty Taurus/Five Hundred units. I work on them all the time and there have been no suspension wear issues. There were noise issues at the launch of the Five Hundred, and subsequent TSB's, but it wasn't due to wearing out or lack of durability. Maybe what you are referring to is the TSB that deals with the fit between the front springs and strut bearings causing a clunk noise during parking meneuvers? I haven't fixed anything on the suspension of a '05 and up Five Hundred/Taurus in years. The front axles have proven very reliable too although there was an axle seal issue on awd models from '07-'08.

 

There are powertrain issues though. For example, to remove and install the transmission in a CV for an internal repair takes about two hours tops, plus the time it takes you to repair whatever it is your going to repair. On the Taurus it takes about six to seven hours just to remove and install. They're not fun. Its not like they're out all the time, but little differences like that in a service life might look huge to a bean counting beuracrat.

[ausrutherford]

I don't ever want to see this anywhere on the roads in this country.

 

 

The perfect car for Polosi's Green Police!

[blksn8k2]

Would police service not be a reason to incorporate RevoKnuckle on say the next gen Taurus?

[joihan777]

Are there no small factories that Ford could use to 'purpose-build' a unique RWD car that had similar powertrains to other Ford cars but had unique (& easily serviceable) sheetmetal and attchment points similar to CV so that switchover would come with a minimum cost to municipal fleets? This includes the dash having a column shifter/ no center bin.

 

I still hope a next-gen CV would emerge, even if very different from today's CV. I don't think the Taurus should be undercut by fleet sales. I'd prefer a modified Taurus with a different name than just using the Taurus outright.

 

Think about the companies that make postal vehicles, or the trucks for SWAT teams. There must be a way for Ford to make a unique fleet vehicle that could be used by any agency but last 200k+ miles of severe use. Ford has, with the CV, what Carbon Motors doesn't have: years of experience, pre-existing aftermarket support and customer familiararity.

[taxman100]

It will be a free-for-all. Ford currently has 85% of the market - they will be lucky to keep a third of it after this. They will also lose most of the taxi and livery market as well. They have already given up most of the retail large car market - considering how many they sold in that market 10-15 years ago compared to today.

 

Impala's will be used by larger cities, the Charger by rural forces, and the Tahoe will be in the mix as well. All of them, and whatever Ford pulls out of a hat, are/still will be inferior to the Panther.

 

Ford's decision to internationalize every product worldwide has consequences, and this square peg in a round hole approach to large cars is no different.

 

I love large American sedans - too bad no one will sell one after 2011. That means I'll either drive used Grand Marquis/Town Car for the next 15 years, or buy whatever is on sale when I'm in the market.

 

Make and model becomes meaningless when everything is pretty much the same.

Edited August 29, 2009 by taxman100

[2005Explorer]

I love large American sedans - too bad no one will sell one after 2011.

 

How the new 2010 Taurus could be classified as anything other then a "large American sedan" is beyond my comprehension. All of you Panther people keep bashing this car, but I bet you haven't even drove it yet. I understand that you like the "sexy" styling of your Panthers better then the new Taurus and you feel a car must have RWD and a full frame to be a real car, but I think you need to get with the times. Cars really haven't been built like that in mass quantity since the 1970's.

 

Either change with the times or stay stuck in the past. As a person you can live in the past. Ford can't afford to live in the past with you.

[fordtech1]

I wonder what will happen to the Limousine business.... I drove a limo part time for a while. I enjoyed it and most of the veteran limo drivers prefered the TC to the deville 4 to 1. The guys I talked to said that the TC was alot more dependable and got alot of miles before major work.

Plus, I always thought the TC looked much better as a limo than a Deville. I have seen a few 300c limos and ofcourse suv limos are big. I wonder if a stretched MKS would hold up and/or look good?

[Pioneer]

they will be lucky to keep a third of it after this.

 

 

Good riddance. I hope they don't even keep a third of it. It is a low volume, low profit field to be in.