TomServo92 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 This thread really needs to be closed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I love catch phrases..."Legacy Cost". Is the legacy cost hurting their market share? Veba Las Vegas Still waiting to hear.... What should the labor be paid? legacy costs increase the cost of the model being sold, making it either A) more expensive than the competition to make the same profit or B) make less profit per vehicle by selling at the same price. Less profits equals less money to spend on product development as far as what labor should be paid, how about market value. What are people prepared to work for in order to have a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvsked Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 legacy costs increase the cost of the model being sold, making it either A) more expensive than the competition to make the same profit or B) make less profit per vehicle by selling at the same price. Less profits equals less money to spend on product development as far as what labor should be paid, how about market value. What are people prepared to work for in order to have a job. Oh I thought veba assumed the legacy cost away from manufacturer starting 2010. I think the contract ratification answered the question what people are willing to work for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 The UAW forced the Detroit 3 to have high legacy cost and inflated non skill labor overhead (not limited to cost/hr). You can't force somebody into something that they agreed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 This thread really needs to be closed... Sure does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 as far as what labor should be paid, how about market value. What are people prepared to work for in order to have a job. Ford workers are paid market value. Their compensation is on par with all companies manufacturing in the United States. Some people wont be happy until they are receiving food stamps, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 You can't force somebody into something that they agreed to. Someone has a gun to my head and says "Give me your money". I agree to it... but I had no logical choice to dis-agree with the request. If Ford was to say no to the cost increases, the UAW could have strike and cost Ford market share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 This thread really needs to be closed... Just trying to be "fair and balance". Why should this thread be closed? Because some people have a different opinion of the Ford/UAW contract? The Ford employees have their say in a forum, why shouldn't stock holders and Ford enthusiasts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Wow, this conversation is very weird. Your argument against the modification was that it took away the right to strike in certain situations and being upset about this because the union hasn't struck Ford since the mid-70's. That's not my argument against the modifications. What part of my quote that referenced the overtime didn't you understand? It's widely known that many senior assembly workers made/could have made nearly 80k in the rich times w/ lots of OT. $28/hr is 58k/yr. It doesn't take much OT at $42 (or even $56/hr) to get you to OT. And as Richard has pointed out, I was wrong on the high side for Alan...so I guess I'm not the only one going off half-cocked without all the facts. Are we talking about now or then? Argue one point or the other. Then was before modifications in March, and before concessions in 2007. Then - overtime. Now - laid off every other month. I'm still stunned that people think a CEO making 2M (or 8M or 18M or WHATEVER) is the problem... I'm stunned more people don't think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Someone has a gun to my head and says "Give me your money". I agree to it... but I had no logical choice to dis-agree with the request. If Ford was to say no to the cost increases, the UAW could have strike and cost Ford market share. Contract negotiations go both ways. We have strikes, they have outsourcing. Quit making it sound like it is a one way street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Ford workers are paid market value. Their compensation is on par with all companies manufacturing in the United States. Some people wont be happy until they are receiving food stamps, tho. The issue may not be limited to pay/hr.... It mostly centers around the ability of the UAW to close Ford production if market conditions require drastic contract changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Ford workers are paid market value. Their compensation is on par with all companies manufacturing in the United States. Some people wont be happy until they are receiving food stamps, tho. Error.. double post. Edited November 4, 2009 by mettech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just trying to be "fair and balance". No you're not. The Ford employees have their say in a forum, why shouldn't stock holders and Ford enthusiasts? I'm three for three! :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Contract negotiations go both ways. We have strikes, they have outsourcing. Quit making it sound like it is a one way street. Why should an employee mandate the employer how many people or plants it must keep on the payroll? Pioneer, I do what to thank you for your input... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 The issue may not be limited to pay/hr.... It mostly centers around the ability of the UAW to close Ford production if market conditions require drastic contract changes. Ford has closed more Ford production since 1976: EAP AAP SLAP TCAP NAP And others I have probably forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Why should an employee mandate the employer how many people or plants it must keep on the payroll? We don't. Look at STAP for a prime example. Look at SLAP. Look at NAP. Closed plants. GEN is gone. Get over it and argue something current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Ford has closed more Ford production since 1976: EAP AAP SLAP TCAP NAP And others I have probably forgotten. I know. As production efficiencies increase, overhead must be reduced accordingly and immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 No you're not. I'm three for three! :happy feet: And rightly so. :stats: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Ford has closed more Ford production since 1976: EAP AAP SLAP TCAP NAP And others I have probably forgotten. And more to come! The more they close in NA the greater their odds of long term health and survival. Plus, it's good for the country; less UAW power=healthier country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David The Bruce Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I love catch phrases..."Legacy Cost". Is the legacy cost hurting their market share? Veba Las Vegas Still waiting to hear.... What should the labor be paid? This is like getting garlic cloves into an old roast. WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET A COMPETENT PERSON TO SUCESSFULLY PERFORM THE TASKS OF THE JOB ON A REGULAR BASIS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David The Bruce Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Ford workers are paid market value. Their compensation is on par with all companies manufacturing in the United States. Some people wont be happy until they are receiving food stamps, tho. Then why can new hires now magically be found for $14 an hour? Obviously market value flucuates huh? day to day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David The Bruce Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 You can't force somebody into something that they agreed to. I'd say the threat of stopping a manufacturing plant from producing product falls under the force catagory, otherwise they'd be paid $14 an hour right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Then why can new hires now magically be found for $14 an hour? New hires? What new hires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 LMAO at the title change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I'd say the threat of stopping a manufacturing plant from producing product falls under the force catagory, otherwise they'd be paid $14 an hour right? The threat goes both ways. And the $14 argument is getting old, since that is your only one. Time to try a new one. Ask mettech for help. He may hate Unions, but he gets an "A" for creativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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