2011 Ford Explorer

[Deanh]

ok, lets turn this completely around....what do YOU think the Explorer should be.......and remember, your ideas are WITHOUT the meticulous marketing analysts ford employs, that as of late have been doing a spectacular job.....

[akirby]

Having owned 2 explorers, an expedition and an aviator we switched to an Edge 18 months ago. Why? Fuel economy and much better ride quality. Never got better than 19 mpg hiway before the Edge - now we get 23 minimum and sometimes as high as 27. City went from 15 to 17.

 

Edge and Flex are street only. Explorer will be much more aggressive with more ground clearance and more towing capacity. It will appeal to 90% + of the former Explorer buyers - most of whom left for Pilots or other CUVs before the Edge and Flex were available.

[V8-X]

Silly comparison.... real quick answer...what is the F-150's primary purpose? Its a truck, otherwise you would have bought something else WITHOUT a bed @9000lb towing that could carry people....What would you say if ford went the OTHER route, made it a true rockcrawler with a buckboard ride complete with am 8 inch lift?....or a 20000lb tower with 6 mpgs....my point is you compromise the best way you can to cater to the MAJOR chunk of the market...otherwise you LOSE more sales than you gain............

Silly to you maybe. What was the Explorer, Expedition & Excursions original intended purpose? Wasn't it to provide truck (Ranger, F150 & SD) like capabilities with extra space for passengers? The Excursions of course was discontinued, for obvious reasons. And over the last few updates, the Explorer and Expy have moved into less truck like category to a more car like category. Which if you moved the F150 into a Ridgeline setup, would be doing exactly what was/has/will be done to the Explorer. So there's no difference, even if you think it's silly.

 

If you check the market lately, there are tons of trucks without a ding, scratch or what not, because their used as people movers. If Ford followed this trend too, then the F150 would be changed into something it wasn't originally intended for.

 

and guess what...all 3 are styled differently.....and one cannot compare the Edge and flex...they are TOTALLY different beasts...but irrespective,,, some buy and Edge based on styling and vice versa....

So what if they are styled differently, they all do practically the same thing (5-7 passenger CUV). Ford only had one mid-size do-it-all SUV in the 90's. So why are 3 mid-size CUV's needed today? Is it just for giving people different styles to choose from? Isn't that more where trim levels should come into play or the Lincoln/Mercury counterpart? Using this philosophy, maybe Ford should release another 1/2 ton similar to the F150, but just change the styling. Then they could say they are saving money by using the same platform, but in the end practically taking sales from the F150 and giving them to this new 1/2 ton.

 

Just like people can't compare the Venza or Highlander, they are totally different beasts. But Toyota covers the CUV market with those two, then leave the 4-Runner to capture the mid-size SUV market. Diversity in their vehicles without too much overlap. Even if the 4-Runner isn't saling well this year, it has always had steady sales.

[Deanh]

Having owned 2 explorers, an expedition and an aviator we switched to an Edge 18 months ago. Why? Fuel economy and much better ride quality. Never got better than 19 mpg hiway before the Edge - now we get 23 minimum and sometimes as high as 27. City went from 15 to 17.

 

Edge and Flex are street only. Explorer will be much more aggressive with more ground clearance and more towing capacity. It will appeal to 90% + of the former Explorer buyers - most of whom left for Pilots or other CUVs before the Edge and Flex were available.

shhhh, Kirby, I know all that, I just want to see what the whiners WISH the Explorer to be....and to witness how they would potentially aleinate a majority of potential customers....and thus potential profitability....I do , and always have suggested dealer installed or avail upgrades for those that see fit...ala, Ford "racing" suspension upgrades.... :shades: that way BOTH potential contingencies are adressed....

[Deanh]

Silly to you maybe. What was the Explorer, Expedition & Excursions original intended purpose? Wasn't it to provide truck (Ranger, F150 & SD) like capabilities with extra space for passengers? The Excursions of course was discontinued, for obvious reasons. And over the last few updates, the Explorer and Expy have moved into less truck like category to a more car like category. Which if you moved the F150 into a Ridgeline setup, would be doing exactly what was/has/will be done to the Explorer. So there's no difference, even if you think it's silly.

 

If you check the market lately, there are tons of trucks without a ding, scratch or what not, because their used as people movers. If Ford followed this trend too, then the F150 would be changed into something it wasn't originally intended for.

 

 

So what if they are styled differently, they all do practically the same thing (5-7 passenger CUV). Ford only had one mid-size do-it-all SUV in the 90's. So why are 3 mid-size CUV's needed today? Is it just for giving people different styles to choose from? Isn't that more where trim levels should come into play or the Lincoln/Mercury counterpart? Using this philosophy, maybe Ford should release another 1/2 ton similar to the F150, but just change the styling. Then they could say they are saving money by using the same platform, but in the end practically taking sales from the F150 and giving them to this new 1/2 ton.

 

Just like people can't compare the Venza or Highlander, they are totally different beasts. But Toyota covers the CUV market with those two, then leave the 4-Runner to capture the mid-size SUV market. Diversity in their vehicles without too much overlap. Even if the 4-Runner isn't saling well this year, it has always had steady sales.

sorry V8, the Explorer, Expedition and Excursion were PRIMARILY people movers from the get go, the only thing different between them was size and towing.....and try putting a motorcycle in any of those three, or cement, dirt etc etc....the F-150 and pickups have a different purpose, and have since day one...f-100 IS apparently on the way to adress those that need a TRUCK with less payload / towing etc....point I'm trying to make, is you guys are vehemetly jumping the gun...dont doubt differentiation between the edge Flex and Explorer...they WILL have different target audinces WITHOUT aleinating ANY....pretty SMART by ford if you ask me...

[NickF1011]

Silly to you maybe. What was the Explorer, Expedition & Excursions original intended purpose?

 

What it's intended purpose was quickly became irrelevant when most of its buyers didn't use it for that purpose. The F-150 comparison is ridiculous. Are they often used as people-movers now? Sure. But as was already mentioned, they are still bought in the end because they are pickup trucks. Are they more practical pickup trucks than they used to be? Sure. But it still has all of the utility a pickup offers. Take that away and you've taken away the main reason people bought them. The main reason most people bought Explorers was not for the purposes Ford originally designed it for.

[V8-X]

ok, lets turn this completely around....what do YOU think the Explorer should be.......and remember, your ideas are WITHOUT the meticulous marketing analysts ford employs, that as of late have been doing a spectacular job.....

I don't expect much of the Explorer anymore, as my expectations have decreased over the years, since the '02 change. Basically the Explorer should continue it's truck based roots. SRA, RWD (2WD, 4WD & optional AWD on high end models maybe the Lincoln/Mercury model). Needs to provide adequate towing capability (5K-6K minimum), ground clearance of at least the Ranger 4x4. V6, EB V6 model and optional V8 for the Lincoln couterpart. Would love a SFA, but know it'd get an IFS for ride quality, heck even my F150 has IFS, even thoughy I prefer the SFA of the SD's. Will accept a uni/unit if shows capable with the RWD setup, towing and some off-road ability, otherwise BOF. Other then that, I'm open to the exterior styling, the interior features and all the creature comforts you could have.

 

Practically every review I've read on the new Explorer has stated the following:

 

The new Explorer will be a less rugged but cheaper unibody vehicle, with less towing capacity and offroad capability.

 

So great, it's cheaper for Ford, but less rugged, less towing ability and less off-road ability. Nice to save Ford money, but wrong direction (less capable) in my opinion.

 

Having owned 2 explorers, an expedition and an aviator we switched to an Edge 18 months ago. Why? Fuel economy and much better ride quality. Never got better than 19 mpg hiway before the Edge - now we get 23 minimum and sometimes as high as 27. City went from 15 to 17.

What year Explorer? My '99 5.0L AWD got 19-20mpgs highway consistently, even at this altitude and with all the hills/mtns, in stock form. City was about spot on with 14.5-15.5 mpgs. The AWD system was horrible compared to my dads '96 Explorer 4.0L OHV 4x4.

[joihan777]

It seems the Explorer's biggest threat now is the Pilot and whatever GM & Toyota have.

 

None are extolled as pinnacles of off-road capability... there just roomy, SAFE un-mini-vans that have acceptable mileage and ride quality. Also, I see these smaller SUVs mostly in cities/ urban areas... where people generally don't have large boats or RVs, so a medium tow capability would suffice.

 

Of all the times I took my old Isuzu off-road... it was merely off PAVED roads. One or two miles up to a campspot or trailhead with the Scouts is the most it ever saw. And we were going 20mph max. I never drove it like a stolen Raptor!

 

Sorry, but I think a street savvy Explorer is the way to go. Any towing capability over 4500# would do for most folks.

And that is where the sales are, no?

Edited December 8, 2009 by joihan777

[jpd80]

Something to bear in mind,

Since 2005, Explorer sales have fallen from 239,000 to 78,000 last year and barely make 50,000 this year.

In the same time Freestyle/Edge/Flex have grown from 76,000 to over 120,000 last year and this year.

 

The Escape has grown in proportions to almost a small mid sizer so I think Ford has that area covered

and although a mini van sounds unpalatable to most people, the coming C-Max may have that covered.

[V8-X]

sorry V8, the Explorer, Expedition and Excursion were PRIMARILY people movers from the get go, the only thing different between them was size and towing.....and try putting a motorcycle in any of those three, or cement, dirt etc etc....the F-150 and pickups have a different purpose, and have since day one...

Yes they were designed to move people, as were most if not all SUV's of the day. But from day one they were designed to have the rugged ability that pickup trucks were known for. No they didn't have a bed, but they provided the room for more passengers without giving up too much off-road or towing capability. So now take away the off-road ability and it's towing ability, and what do we have? A shale of it's original intentions.

 

they WILL have different target audinces WITHOUT aleinating ANY....pretty SMART by ford if you ask me...

Well, seems like since the '02 redesign, the Explorer sales have slowly tanked. Sure some due to the bad publicity, some due to the CUV craze. But to me, if it becomes less capable off-road and reduces towing capacity, then it's your typical everyday CUV and does alienate consumers.

Edited December 8, 2009 by V8-X

[jpd80]

Well, seems like since the '02 redesign, the Explorer sales have slowly tanked. Sure some due to the bad publicity, some due to the CUV craze. But to me, if it becomes less capable off-road and reduces towing capacity, then it's your typical everyday CUV and does alienate consumers.

But a lot of those Explorers were never used for off-roading.

The whole market has tanked and people who used to buy SUVs are now buy something else.

[V8-X]

But a lot of those Explorers were never used for off-roading.

The whole market has tanked and people who used to buy SUVs are now buy something else.

I understand this. But instead of having 3 mid-size CUVs to flood the market, why not offer a minivan instead? Or stay true to the SUV roots? What exactly justifies 3 CUVs, plus all the Lincoln/Mercury counterparts?

 

Instead, now when the CUV craze dies down, like the SUV craze did, Ford will then be stuck with 3 models in the same segment, rushing to try and build the latest craze and not knowing what to do with 3 CUVs. They should focus on 2 CUVs, and make slight changes from the Ford standard, to the Mercury/Lincoln counterparts.

Edited December 8, 2009 by V8-X

[jpd80]

I understand this. But instead of having 3 mid-size CUVs to flood the market, why not offer a minivan instead? Or stay true to the SUV roots? What exactly justifies 3 CUVs, plus all the Lincoln/Mercury counterparts?

That's where the sales numbers are and those three Ford CUVs and the Lincoln/Mercury counterparts all

serve different customer groups, it's pretty smart way to go without costing a bunch.

 

Instead, now when the CUV craze dies down, like the SUV craze did, Ford will then be stuck with 3 models in the same segment, rushing to try and build the latest craze and not knowing what to do with 3 CUVs. They should focus on 2 CUVs, and make slight changes from the Ford standard, to the Mercury/Lincoln counterparts.

Common platforms and flex manufacturing means Ford will be better set up to follow market trends.

Flexibility of CUV platforms sporning mini-vans, people movers and such is far better than BOF SUV.

[V8-X]

That's where the sales numbers are and those three Ford CUVs and the Lincoln/Mercury counterparts all

serve different customer groups, it's pretty smart way to go without costing a bunch.

 

Common platforms and flex manufacturing means Ford will be better set up to follow market trends.

Flexibility of CUV platforms sporning mini-vans, people movers and such is far better than BOF SUV.

I understand the Edge serves the 5 passenger market, but so will the Explorer. The Flex covers the 7 passenger market, but so will the Explorer. Exactly what different customer groups are we covering other than those looking for a 5 or 7 passenger CUV? I understand style plays into it, but you can't cater to everyones style preferences and be profitable.

 

So instead of creating a CUV Explorer, why don't they invest the development costs into a mini-van? So instead of 3 CUVs, covering practially the same market, they can have 2 CUVs and a mini-van covering a different segment? Too me it's like the 90's & early ''00s over again. Ford dumped all their money into SUV's and trucks, which came back to hurt them. Now they want to dump it all into the CUV market instead of diversify their vehicle segments.

Edited December 8, 2009 by V8-X

[silvrsvt]

I understand this. But instead of having 3 mid-size CUVs to flood the market, why not offer a minivan instead? Or stay true to the SUV roots? What exactly justifies 3 CUVs, plus all the Lincoln/Mercury counterparts?

 

Why stay in a dying market?

 

As for the CUV vs SUV market....lets look at the facts here:

 

Current Escape tops out at 34K or so for Hybrid...no third-row Vast Majority of them are XLT models in the mid 20K range that I've seen on the lots. The Escape is the only (so far that Ford has) CUV thats a SUV..at least in Style/Image

 

Edge fairly well equipped goes in the Mid 30s and tops out around 40K a year, Once again it has no Third row seating in it. Its slightly larger then the Escape, and fits different parts of the market better then the Escape does. Its more of a CUV then both the 2010 Explorer and Escape

 

2010 Explorer: I'm going to assume that the pricing is going to be similar to the Edge, but go into the mid-40K range. The Explorer is going to differ from the Edge by having a 3-row seat, Ecoboosted Engines, better towing and maybe better MPG's

 

The other thing your forgetting about, is that in the next 2 years...all of these products are going to be shared with other platforms, which makes them cheaper to do and make bigger profits off of. The days of having one product take over the whole market is long gone...you need to hit the niches better with more types of vehicles instead just depending on an Explorer to fit everyone's tastes.

 

Now they want to dump it all into the CUV market instead of diversify their vehicle segments.

 

 

The Minivan is a dead market, and the Flex is supposed to address that market to a point and what other market are they really hurting in? The Fiesta will be here in 6 months. The small pickup market is more or less like the minivan market. The Taurus and Fusion are at the top or near the top of their receptive classes. The Focus is going replaced in 18 months. The Mustang is getting new engines this year....so where are they lacking again or ignoring with coming out with CUV's?

Edited December 8, 2009 by silvrsvt

[jpd80]

Flex and Edge do not serve the same market. Whilst Explorer may overlap some of the features in other two, the buying groups are different. Whilst a mini van off D3 may have a strong following, I think Ford

is looking at the C-max or even the grand C-Max seven seater......

 

American economy is still weak and sales are down because buyer spending is not there,

it has nothing to do with perceived deficits in products. That Ford sells about 40% of the

F Truck volume it had in 2005 yet seems just as profitable speaks volumes.

Edited December 8, 2009 by jpd80

[Deanh]

Yes they were designed to move people, as were most if not all SUV's of the day. But from day one they were designed to have the rugged ability that pickup trucks were known for. No they didn't have a bed, but they provided the room for more passengers without giving up too much off-road or towing capability. So now take away the off-road ability and it's towing ability, and what do we have? A shale of it's original intentions.

 

 

Well, seems like since the '02 redesign, the Explorer sales have slowly tanked. Sure some due to the bad publicity, some due to the CUV craze. But to me, if it becomes less capable off-road and reduces towing capacity, then it's your typical everyday CUV and does alienate consumers.

I will repeat myself....NONE of the SUVS mentioned come even REMOTELY close to being truly off road capable....inclement weather, snow, perhaps.....AND THATS RUGGED?????? please...NONE of those SUVs hold a candle to a 4x4 pickup UNLESS extensively modified....towing you MAY have a point, but how many people have ACTUALLY utilized an Explorer for 5000lb towing, and we do NOT know the new Explorers capacities yet...like i said, everyone is jumping the gun...the NEW iteration WILL trump the old,..... classic case of fear of change AND progress...AGAIN.

[Deanh]

I understand this. But instead of having 3 mid-size CUVs to flood the market, why not offer a minivan instead? Or stay true to the SUV roots? What exactly justifies 3 CUVs, plus all the Lincoln/Mercury counterparts?

 

Instead, now when the CUV craze dies down, like the SUV craze did, Ford will then be stuck with 3 models in the same segment, rushing to try and build the latest craze and not knowing what to do with 3 CUVs. They should focus on 2 CUVs, and make slight changes from the Ford standard, to the Mercury/Lincoln counterparts.

Mini-vans?......Grand C-max is coming too no?...hell, Ford may have TOO much product....and if they are all off the same platform ( the Cuv's i'm talking about now )......development across the board is cheaper and refresheds are easier, thus shelf life can be longer, or in worst case scenario just stop one line....

[jpd80]

Deanh, wouldn't the Expedition be a far better off road and towing vehicle, wouldn't the extra bucks

more than justify getting a vehicle that CAN DO the job instead of pressing the Explorer?

[Ron W.]

like i said, everyone is jumping the gun...

 

Pretty much par for the course on this site, so how many horse power in the 2020 F150 ? :shades:

[Deanh]

Deanh, wouldn't the Expedition be a far better off road and towing vehicle, wouldn't the extra bucks

more than justify getting a vehicle that CAN DO the job instead of pressing the Explorer?

none of the mentioned vehicles should even remotely be considered off road, unless being a 4x4 and handling Sand, Snow and Sleet all of a sudden makes a vehicle rugged and OFF Road worthy....Expy sales have TANKED, consequence of cost, MPG's and I seriously think people are turning their backs on HUGE vehicles unless deemed ABSOLUTELY necessary. I say just ahve an available "Off Road CAPABLE " packege avail through ford Parts catalog. Shocks, wheels Tires, different springs perhaps, and skid plates....maybe Fender flares to advertise the fact....OffRoad buffet for the customer that deems that type of stuff "lifestyle necessary".......like the 99% of the guys with the massive liftkits , wheels and tyres whoms offroad exploits consist of going to a beach barbeque....

[Deanh]

Deanh, wouldn't the Expedition be a far better off road and towing vehicle, wouldn't the extra bucks

more than justify getting a vehicle that CAN DO the job instead of pressing the Explorer?

too small a market J......maybe as I said....aftermarket....

[danup]

Well, seems like since the '02 redesign, the Explorer sales have slowly tanked. Sure some due to the bad publicity, some due to the CUV craze. But to me, if it becomes less capable off-road and reduces towing capacity, then it's your typical everyday CUV and does alienate consumers.

 

You are seriously confusing correlation with causation here. The Explorer's sales have tanked not because of a bad redesign, although the 2006 redesign seemed like a lateral move to me, they've tanked because nobody is buying off-road, towing-capable SUVs to carry their children to school anymore. If you want to see what the market is for an off-road capable SUV with solid towing numbers—you're looking at it. The consumers who justified such high development spending on the truck-based Explorer, even though that wasn't really what they needed, are gone, and they aren't coming back.

Edited December 8, 2009 by danup

[V8-X]

I will repeat myself....NONE of the SUVS mentioned come even REMOTELY close to being truly off road capable....inclement weather, snow, perhaps.....AND THATS RUGGED?????? please...NONE of those SUVs hold a candle to a 4x4 pickup UNLESS extensively modified....towing you MAY have a point, but how many people have ACTUALLY utilized an Explorer for 5000lb towing, and we do NOT know the new Explorers capacities yet...like i said, everyone is jumping the gun...the NEW iteration WILL trump the old,..... classic case of fear of change AND progress...AGAIN.

The 1st Gen Expy weight, wheelbase and sheer size was the biggest issue with the off-road conditions. But it isn't greatly behind a 4x4 F150 in these off-road categories. Gen II Expy's went south in the off-road conditions with the IRS. The Gen I Explorer was a great off-roader (nearly as good as the Grand Cherokee of like years), the Gen II nearly as much so (biggest issue IFS), and the Gen III models on went further south in the off-road category with the IRS. The Excursion was simply too big and heavy for severe off-road, but still built like a tank, as are the SD's. Fact remains, they will be and are still much more capable in off-road conditions than similar CUVs.

 

Have spent many hours off roading in the CO Rocky Mtns and AZ Desert as well as on the farm my grandfather owns, behind the wheel of many different vehicles (Broncos, Scouts, FJs, CJs, Rangers, F150s, Blazers, Wranglers, Explorers, Tacomas, CKs, Wagoneers, Har Bodys, Expys and Land Cruisers mostly). You may disagree with me, which is fine, but I will not discount my first hand knowledge of how these vehicles performed and what they were able to do.

 

Deanh, wouldn't the Expedition be a far better off road and towing vehicle, wouldn't the extra bucks

more than justify getting a vehicle that CAN DO the job instead of pressing the Explorer?

The IRS is a negative in off-roading, but both the currect Expy and Explorer have them. And not everyone needs a full-size SUV.

[jpd80]

In outback Australia you would be insane to have anything other than a proper 4WD

like Land Cruiser of Nissan patrol, all the others like Explorer are considered dinky toys.

When you're 300 or 400 miles from nowhere, your life depends on a proper reliable vehicle.

Edited December 8, 2009 by jpd80