Thank you!

[stephenhawkings]

At the risk of posting some actual facts:

 

According to the Congressional Budget Office, during the Bush years, the total combined deficits added up to $1.986 trillion for 2001-2008. Fiscal 2009 ended with a $1.4 trillion deficit for ONE YEAR - almost as much as Bush racked up in 8!!!

 

Yes, some of this year's deficits were decisions made by Bush, but most of it was approved by Obama. The Congress just passed spending bills that increase spending 12% vs last year. And does not include the new Health Care bill! Who is minding the store? No one!!

 

We have endured decades of mismanagement by BOTH Parties!

 

When is enough enough?

how did Reagan or Eisenhower add up or FDR? when you adjust for inflation? or hell even Lincoln?

[Marginal Economist]

how did Reagan or Eisenhower add up or FDR? when you adjust for inflation? or hell even Lincoln?

IOUSA - The movie

 

Watch from the 4:00 minute mark to about 7:00 to see the history of the debt and deficits since 1789.

[CD4EMAN]

World's Smallest Political Quiz

 

Find out where you stand.

 

 

 

LIBRETARIAN and damn proud of that.

[CD4EMAN]

Just dug out my benefits summary. Most recent I found was 2006. Family of four was $11,276 for health care. So go crawl back under that rock of yours. The healthcare inflation for 2 yrs hasnt even come close to raising it to the levels you are spewing.

 

 

just got back from under my rock, call the NESC and find out what it costs Ford or to COBRA,

1-800-248-4444, you may get the current truth there

[Aces]

LIBRETARIAN and damn proud of that.

 

 

Perhaps you should learn how to spell it then.

[kpc655]

Yeah...especially after the republicans tried to destroy our industry.

 

 

the industry is fine. it's only a few manufacturers who are struggling. and it's not over. we still suffer from massive overcapacity

[CD4EMAN]

Perhaps you should learn how to spell it then.

 

 

 

http://www.lp.org/

 

sorry! i switched 2 letters mr. merriamn webster! get a life spell check boy.

[jerrymaker]

1st. yes every president has increased debt. not at the record pace or amount this president has.

 

2nd most every time I say something negitive or disagree with Obama I am accused of not liking him because he is black thus translated to being racist. Which I am not.

 

3rd I built this computer myself and yes everything I buy I try to get American products, but to answer your question yes the shirt on my back is American made! As an American I will offer it to you if you need it more than I do.

 

lastly, to cobra a family plan is 1800 a month per NESC, feel free to give them a call, works out to about 22000 yearly. I do try to get my facts correct please forgive me for making mistakes, if anyone believes that our government is not going to raise taxes on the largest group of tax payers to pay for this plan you are sadly mistaken. And yes they want to tax our "cadillac" (i prefer Licoln) insurance plan.

 

 

Point 2 always get me in trouble when i ask what color obamas mother was and who was he raised by...so i guess he's the first half black half white president, or am i wrong?

[stephenhawkings]

Point 2 always get me in trouble when i ask what color obamas mother was and who was he raised by...so i guess he's the first half black half white president, or am i wrong?

I think it is weird that some one, not you or I , but some will provide the disclaimer about not being racist, makes me wonder if a subconscious is peaking through.

 

half black and half white, i could be wrong, but i think your right.

[deflep1]

Both sides have good points when expressing how bad the other party has been with raising the debt. As an Independent, it's been clear to me for a long time that the problem isn't DEM or REP, it's the WHOLE GOVERNMENT! They will overspend regardless of what party is in office. Bush increased the debt in his way, and Obama is doing it in his way. The health care bill will raise the debt significantly, and so will cap and trade (carbon tax, emission tax, whatever they call it) when they pass it. Both will cost millions of jobs and will choke the life out of the economy. This has happened in every country that has socalized medicine and emission caps. Unemployment skyrockets and manufacturing jobs are all outsourced. We happen to also have a currency that is starting to fail, and it will when interest rates start shooting up. The Fed can only keep rates (FED. fund borrowing rate) near zero for so long, and then they will lose the power to control what happens when China stops loaning us money. I know a lot of people don't like Bush or Obama, (I don't support either) but people need to wake up to the games the GOVT. is playing. Taking away our freedoms, our rights, trying to kill capitalism while expontentially expanding the size of government. I appreciate everyones distain against the OTHER party, but please realize BOTH PARTIES will screw you in a second. They only care about re-election and growing the size of the govt. and the number of people dependent on it. Take that energy you have in hating the other party and use it to tell the GOVT. to STOP SPENDING money we don't have, STOP sending good jobs out of our country, and STOP trying to control everything we do. I want people to have good jobs so they can buy new Ford products, so I can still have a job! I believe Libertarians have it right...let me succeed or fail on my own, the govt. needs to stay out of my way! WE THE PEOPLE can make it, WE THE GOVERNMENT will FAIL!

[FiredMotorCompany]

Both sides have good points when expressing how bad the other party has been with raising the debt. As an Independent, it's been clear to me for a long time that the problem isn't DEM or REP, it's the WHOLE GOVERNMENT! They will overspend regardless of what party is in office. Bush increased the debt in his way, and Obama is doing it in his way. The health care bill will raise the debt significantly, and so will cap and trade (carbon tax, emission tax, whatever they call it) when they pass it. Both will cost millions of jobs and will choke the life out of the economy. This has happened in every country that has socalized medicine and emission caps. Unemployment skyrockets and manufacturing jobs are all outsourced. We happen to also have a currency that is starting to fail, and it will when interest rates start shooting up. The Fed can only keep rates (FED. fund borrowing rate) near zero for so long, and then they will lose the power to control what happens when China stops loaning us money. I know a lot of people don't like Bush or Obama, (I don't support either) but people need to wake up to the games the GOVT. is playing. Taking away our freedoms, our rights, trying to kill capitalism while expontentially expanding the size of government. I appreciate everyones distain against the OTHER party, but please realize BOTH PARTIES will screw you in a second. They only care about re-election and growing the size of the govt. and the number of people dependent on it. Take that energy you have in hating the other party and use it to tell the GOVT. to STOP SPENDING money we don't have, STOP sending good jobs out of our country, and STOP trying to control everything we do. I want people to have good jobs so they can buy new Ford products, so I can still have a job! I believe Libertarians have it right...let me succeed or fail on my own, the govt. needs to stay out of my way! WE THE PEOPLE can make it, WE THE GOVERNMENT will FAIL!

 

 

You said it well!

[CD4EMAN]

Both sides have good points when expressing how bad the other party has been with raising the debt. As an Independent, it's been clear to me for a long time that the problem isn't DEM or REP, it's the WHOLE GOVERNMENT! They will overspend regardless of what party is in office. Bush increased the debt in his way, and Obama is doing it in his way. The health care bill will raise the debt significantly, and so will cap and trade (carbon tax, emission tax, whatever they call it) when they pass it. Both will cost millions of jobs and will choke the life out of the economy. This has happened in every country that has socalized medicine and emission caps. Unemployment skyrockets and manufacturing jobs are all outsourced. We happen to also have a currency that is starting to fail, and it will when interest rates start shooting up. The Fed can only keep rates (FED. fund borrowing rate) near zero for so long, and then they will lose the power to control what happens when China stops loaning us money. I know a lot of people don't like Bush or Obama, (I don't support either) but people need to wake up to the games the GOVT. is playing. Taking away our freedoms, our rights, trying to kill capitalism while expontentially expanding the size of government. I appreciate everyones distain against the OTHER party, but please realize BOTH PARTIES will screw you in a second. They only care about re-election and growing the size of the govt. and the number of people dependent on it. Take that energy you have in hating the other party and use it to tell the GOVT. to STOP SPENDING money we don't have, STOP sending good jobs out of our country, and STOP trying to control everything we do. I want people to have good jobs so they can buy new Ford products, so I can still have a job! I believe Libertarians have it right...let me succeed or fail on my own, the govt. needs to stay out of my way! WE THE PEOPLE can make it, WE THE GOVERNMENT will FAIL!

 

 

 

 

Very well put, thank you

[Aces]

Both sides have good points when expressing how bad the other party has been with raising the debt. As an Independent, it's been clear to me for a long time that the problem isn't DEM or REP, it's the WHOLE GOVERNMENT! They will overspend regardless of what party is in office. Bush increased the debt in his way, and Obama is doing it in his way. The health care bill will raise the debt significantly, and so will cap and trade (carbon tax, emission tax, whatever they call it) when they pass it. Both will cost millions of jobs and will choke the life out of the economy. This has happened in every country that has socalized medicine and emission caps. Unemployment skyrockets and manufacturing jobs are all outsourced. We happen to also have a currency that is starting to fail, and it will when interest rates start shooting up. The Fed can only keep rates (FED. fund borrowing rate) near zero for so long, and then they will lose the power to control what happens when China stops loaning us money. I know a lot of people don't like Bush or Obama, (I don't support either) but people need to wake up to the games the GOVT. is playing. Taking away our freedoms, our rights, trying to kill capitalism while expontentially expanding the size of government. I appreciate everyones distain against the OTHER party, but please realize BOTH PARTIES will screw you in a second. They only care about re-election and growing the size of the govt. and the number of people dependent on it. Take that energy you have in hating the other party and use it to tell the GOVT. to STOP SPENDING money we don't have, STOP sending good jobs out of our country, and STOP trying to control everything we do. I want people to have good jobs so they can buy new Ford products, so I can still have a job! I believe Libertarians have it right...let me succeed or fail on my own, the govt. needs to stay out of my way! WE THE PEOPLE can make it, WE THE GOVERNMENT will FAIL!

 

 

Make sure you stay off the socialist interstates, and if your house is on fire don't call the socialist fire department. I hope your kids can afford private schools (not socialist voucher ones or state university) .

 

Oh yeah stay away from those socialist parks too and if you need security hire your own not the socialist police department.

 

I could go on and on about Medicare for the older people and social security.

 

All of you libertarians seem to forget that you live in a SOCIETY where we all pool together to help each other in many ways mainly through taxes.

[Marginal Economist]

Make sure you stay off the socialist interstates, and if your house is on fire don't call the socialist fire department. I hope your kids can afford private schools (not socialist voucher ones or state university) .

 

Oh yeah stay away from those socialist parks too and if you need security hire your own not the socialist police department.

 

I could go on and on about Medicare for the older people and social security.

 

All of you libertarians seem to forget that you live in a SOCIETY where we all pool together to help each other in many ways mainly through taxes.

 

There is a difference between a limited government and anarchy. There is also a difference between federal, state, and local government. Do you think we should federalize your local fire department and city parks?

 

To the bolded part of your statement - Do you actually believe there is a direct correlation between tax revenue and the benefit to society? If I take a dpllar out of your pocket and put it in mine, did social benefit increase? And with the gov't involvement, what % of your dollar made it to my pocket?

 

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

 

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

 

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

 

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

 

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

 

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

 

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

 

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

 

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

 

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

 

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

 

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

 

To provide and maintain a Navy;

 

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

 

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

 

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

 

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

 

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

[Aces]

There is a difference between a limited government and anarchy. There is also a difference between federal, state, and local government. Do you think we should federalize your local fire department and city parks?

 

To the bolded part of your statement - Do you actually believe there is a direct correlation between tax revenue and the benefit to society? If I take a dpllar out of your pocket and put it in mine, did social benefit increase? And with the gov't involvement, what % of your dollar made it to my pocket?

 

 

Blah, Blah, Blah

 

Same old meaningless rhetoric.

 

Which service are you going to do without?

 

Oh I know..... the one for someone else.

[Marginal Economist]

Blah, Blah, Blah

quote from the Huffington Post?

 

Same old meaningless rhetoric.

Are you referring to the US Constitution or the idea of local government? I'd think you'd be a big fan of seeing your tax dollars go to support things like local food bank, homeless shelters, parks, and fire departments. Do you think the Federal Government does a better job at charity or social programs than the Red Cross, Catholic Charities, or your locally elected officials?

 

Which service are you going to do without?

 

Oh I know..... the one for someone else.

I think we differ in the delivery method. From your posts it sounds like you believe the federal government is the proper vessel for charity, utilities, insurance, and other services. I'm saying we can get a better product for less money without involving the federal government. Private business, competition, individual choice, and local government are legitimate options for many things that have been federalized.

 

Moreover, private charity has long been recognized as more effective and efficient than government welfare programs. Local churches and community groups are the best positioned to understand the needs in their respective areas, and can direct money or services to where they are most useful.

 

Private charities are generally far more flexible than government agencies, which are frequently bogged down in red tape and regulations. Just ask yourself, who has done a better job at timely and effective response, FEMA or the American Red Cross?

source

[Aces]

quote from the Huffington Post?

 

 

Are you referring to the US Constitution or the idea of local government? I'd think you'd be a big fan of seeing your tax dollars go to support things like local food bank, homeless shelters, parks, and fire departments. Do you think the Federal Government does a better job at charity or social programs than the Red Cross, Catholic Charities, or your locally elected officials?

 

 

I think we differ in the delivery method. From your posts it sounds like you believe the federal government is the proper vessel for charity, utilities, insurance, and other services. I'm saying we can get a better product for less money without involving the federal government. Private business, competition, individual choice, and local government are legitimate options for many things that have been federalized.

 

source

 

 

 

Blah, Blah, Blah

 

Same old meaningless rhetoric.

 

Which service are you going to do without?

 

Oh I know..... the one for someone else.

 

 

No matter how you want to twist it to a debate of federal vs local vs charity (which I did not specify,or care)about, You did not answer.

 

Did you want to do without the socialist Interstates? The National or state Parks? The local or state schools?

 

How about the Federal Police or the state police?

 

The Army?

 

Libertarians are only complaining about contributing their fair share to society. I never see them walk away from their entitlements like unemployment insurance or parks for their kids or Medicare for their parents.

[CD4EMAN]

more socialistic crap from our president!!! read it all the way to the bottom please.

 

 

http://www.thecitizen.com/~citizen0/node/41292

[WTFisgoingonhere]

more socialistic crap from our president!!! read it all the way to the bottom please.

 

 

http://www.thecitizen.com/~citizen0/node/41292

Are you still bitching about barak,you need to invite these guys over to shv.and fry them some bacon

[CD4EMAN]

Are you still bitching about barak,you need to invite these guys over to shv.and fry them some bacon

 

 

I LOVE YOU MAN!

[Marginal Economist]

Blah, Blah, Blah

 

Same old meaningless rhetoric.

 

Which service are you going to do without?

 

Oh I know..... the one for someone else.

 

 

No matter how you want to twist it to a debate of federal vs local vs charity (which I did not specify,or care)about, You did not answer.

 

Did you want to do without the socialist Interstates? The National or state Parks? The local or state schools?

 

How about the Federal Police or the state police?

 

The Army?

 

Libertarians are only complaining about contributing their fair share to society. I never see them walk away from their entitlements like unemployment insurance or parks for their kids or Medicare for their parents.

 

Here you go.

 

Interstates- these are required for the commerce and postal service - they fall under the scope of proper federal funding. I'd like to see more of the revenue for interstates generated by toll roads and gasoline taxes.

 

National and State Parks - They have already been granted the land, I'd like to see them keep their tax exempt status but recieve no federal funding. They can charge daily fees, annual memberships, merchandise, and fund raise. They need to be self sufficient.

 

Local and State schools - I think we should abolish the Department of Education and all funding for schools should come from the state and local levels. I am for charter schools and school vouchers.

 

Federal and State Police, Army - I grouped these together as the federal government has a requirement to provide for the safety and security of the American people. I'd like to see less involvement in overseas issues. I'd like to see many laws repealed in regards to drugs, prostitution, and gambling. If we had less laws, we'd have less criminals. I'm torn on the privitization of local law enforcement at this point, but I'd like to learn more about it.

 

These are not all strict libertarian thoughts, but for the most part they are close.

 

As to walking away from entitlements that we are paying for, that does not make sense. When Bush sent you the tax refund check, did you send it back to the gov't and say "No Thanks!" If the UAW had passed the OCt mods you were against, would you have sent Ford back the check? I'm paying for the roads through taxes, I'll use them. I'd prefer to pay for roads another way, but I'm in the minority. I'm OK with that.

[Marginal Economist]

No matter how you want to twist it to a debate of federal vs local vs charity (which I did not specify,or care)about, You did not answer.

 

Local vs federal vs charity vs private is really the entire issue. You think federal can do it better (Big gov't). I don't (Little gov't).

[fordxer]

Page 1943 states 8500 for single coverage, 23K for employee +. The tax appears to only be on the amount over this amount. So if your health plan is valued at 25K, you pay $800 in tax (40% of 2000).

No matter how much the tax is it is really sad that we will get TAXED on a nogiated item. It is a tax that we should not have to pay AT ALL. Just another example of this country going down the tubes. NO, I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN. I AM A CONSTITUTIONALIST. CAN ANYONE SAY ENUMERATED POWERS

[fordxer]

Make sure you stay off the socialist interstates, and if your house is on fire don't call the socialist fire department. I hope your kids can afford private schools (not socialist voucher ones or state university) .

 

Oh yeah stay away from those socialist parks too and if you need security hire your own not the socialist police department.

 

I could go on and on about Medicare for the older people and social security.

 

All of you libertarians seem to forget that you live in a SOCIETY where we all pool together to help each other in many ways mainly through taxes.

And all you liberals seem to think it is someone elses responsibility to take care of everything. Society is people living in the same area to help each other. The government has nothing to do with that.

[Aces]

No matter how much the tax is it is really sad that we will get TAXED on a nogiated item. It is a tax that we should not have to pay AT ALL. Just another example of this country going down the tubes. NO, I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN. I AM A CONSTITUTIONALIST. CAN ANYONE SAY ENUMERATED POWERS

 

 

?

 

What tax?

 

Perhaps you should not swallow all of the rhetoric from the insurance companies and their paid for politicians.