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The idiocy of a compact Lincoln


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Here you go:

 

Year to date sales of the A3 & Audi:

 

2,539

 

39,839

 

For the C30 & Volvo:

 

1,990

 

23,311

 

YTD sales for Lincoln:

 

37,444

 

Is there anyone here who thinks that a compact Lincoln can be profitable on volume similar to the A3? Not me.

 

Building a compact Lincoln assumes one, if not two things:

 

1) Lincoln is enough of an aspirational brand that customers will gladly suffer the inconveniences of a compact car, in order to own a Lincoln (cf. BMW 1-series).

 

2) That there is a meaningful demand for compact luxury cars period.

 

Frankly, assumption number one is so ridiculous it doesn't deserve a rational response, and assumption number two can be addressed by looking at the TWO other car companies that make compact luxury cars besides BMW (we'll do MB a kindness and call the C-class a midsizer).

 

Total compact luxury sales in the US in May of this year were 496 A3s, 844 1-Series, and 368 C30s for a grand total of 1,708 compact luxury vehicles.

 

To put that in perspective, Ford sells that many F-Series trucks every six hours of the business day.

 

Frankly, if Ford's going to play in the compact luxury segment, they might as well get back in the minivan market.

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And it's going to be another half-baked budget attempt like the MKZ, but even smaller!

 

Is this their knee-jerk reaction to killing Mercury, maintaining volume with a cheap Lincoln?

Edited by BORG
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Here you go:

 

Year to date sales of the A3 & Audi:

 

2,539

 

39,839

 

For the C30 & Volvo:

 

1,990

 

23,311

 

YTD sales for Lincoln:

 

37,444

 

Is there anyone here who thinks that a compact Lincoln can be profitable on volume similar to the A3? Not me.

 

Building a compact Lincoln assumes one, if not two things:

 

1) Lincoln is enough of an aspirational brand that customers will gladly suffer the inconveniences of a compact car, in order to own a Lincoln (cf. BMW 1-series).

 

2) That there is a meaningful demand for compact luxury cars period.

 

Frankly, assumption number one is so ridiculous it doesn't deserve a rational response, and assumption number two can be addressed by looking at the TWO other car companies that make compact luxury cars besides BMW (we'll do MB a kindness and call the C-class a midsizer).

 

Total compact luxury sales in the US in May of this year were 496 A3s, 844 1-Series, and 368 C30s for a grand total of 1,708 compact luxury vehicles.

 

To put that in perspective, Ford sells that many F-Series trucks every six hours of the business day.

 

Frankly, if Ford's going to play in the compact luxury segment, they might as well get back in the minivan market.

let me check the sucess of Astons vesion of Toyotas iQ and I'll get back to you....

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No i dont see the point of the Lincoln Focus but whatever let them build, i am going to be bitter for awhile about Mercury.

 

 

 

Based on the current Focus yes.

 

 

But based on the new Euro Focus, a case can be made.

 

 

 

As far as comparing to the A3/A4, like a Lincoln would, they share costs with their VW counterparts.

 

Luxury nameplates can market a small car. BMW 1 and 3 series. MB C-class and B-class.

 

 

As gas prices continue to rise, people will look at smaller cars that provide almost as much interior room as their previous car.

 

It can happen.

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CAFE is corporate, not brand specific, and 15k Lincoln compacts (a wildly optimistic first year projection, IMO) won't even make a dent in that.

 

Absolutely.

 

If you were going to take the volume brand away from a dealer group (LM), what would you say to appease them? We will make up your volume with more models in the lower volume brand.

 

This aint' gonna fly.

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Here you go RJ...from an article I just found;

 

Pricing could be a stumbling block. A Ford Focus compact likely will run around $25,000 with options, Bragman said. Lincoln would have to charge more for a luxury compact, and Bragman questions whether people will pay that for a small car.

 

"There's still some concern about whether Americans really do want these small cars," he said. "We have to see the next-generation Lincolns."

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Here you go:

 

Year to date sales of the A3 & Audi:

 

2,539

 

39,839

 

For the C30 & Volvo:

 

1,990

 

23,311

 

YTD sales for Lincoln:

 

37,444

 

Is there anyone here who thinks that a compact Lincoln can be profitable on volume similar to the A3? Not me.

 

Building a compact Lincoln assumes one, if not two things:

 

1) Lincoln is enough of an aspirational brand that customers will gladly suffer the inconveniences of a compact car, in order to own a Lincoln (cf. BMW 1-series).

 

2) That there is a meaningful demand for compact luxury cars period.

 

Frankly, assumption number one is so ridiculous it doesn't deserve a rational response, and assumption number two can be addressed by looking at the TWO other car companies that make compact luxury cars besides BMW (we'll do MB a kindness and call the C-class a midsizer).

 

Total compact luxury sales in the US in May of this year were 496 A3s, 844 1-Series, and 368 C30s for a grand total of 1,708 compact luxury vehicles.

 

To put that in perspective, Ford sells that many F-Series trucks every six hours of the business day.

 

Frankly, if Ford's going to play in the compact luxury segment, they might as well get back in the minivan market.

 

A1 and 1-Series are really subcompacts...not compacts. This Lincoln would go up against the A4 which is their best selling model.

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Well, one thing that they did say is that the entire lLincoln line will have Ecoboost options.

 

So think Focus RS.

 

People pooh-pooh the idea of bringing the RS to North America because they can't justify the attached pricetag for what North Americans would deride as "still just a Focus".

 

So Ford could still charge $35G for a 305HP Focus. But it'll be a Lincoln. Won't directly be compared to the Mustang. Great driving dynamics. High tech.

 

You would attract younger people to the brand.

 

Something to consider.

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I believe the Acura TSX would also be considered the same size class. It sold almost 3k in May. Lexus also has that new hybrid offering in this size class and I think I read something about another small Lexus for 2011.

 

It doesn't seem like a huge step to "Lincolnize" the new Focus since the Focus is supposed the best in class to start with. It's not like they have to start from scratch to come up with one. I wouldn't think it would be a huge investment to at least give it a shot and see what comes of it.

 

Also, people have been talking about Lincoln going global. A C segment car would be required if they hope to take Lincoln to Europe.

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Also, people have been talking about Lincoln going global. A C segment car would be required if they hope to take Lincoln to Europe.

I was just going to add that to my post above.

 

And it will be built in the same plant as the current (or rather, new) Focus, so it doesn't HAVE to be Ford's top selling car.It will compliment Focus production.

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Why did you choose A3 and C30? To stack the deck for your argument?

 

C-segment Lincoln is probably more of a Volvo S40/Acura CSX/Buick whatever competitor. Those cars are pretty important to those respective brands. S40 is a volume seller for Volvo, ditto CSX for Acura Canada (which will probably be in the US for next generation). And Buick has big plans for its 4 door Astra (whatever it will be called in the US...).

 

Besides, this segment will grow in importance in the future so it is important for Lincoln to have something in the market. Lexus CH is also coming next year not to mention Audi will have a 4 door sedan version of the next A3 designed specifically with US and Chinese market in mind.

Edited by bzcat
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Consider that the Lincoln C concept was designed to be several inches wider than the Focus and that the Focus shares parts with both the Mondeo and the Transit connect, I expect that Ford can make a Focus based car just as appealing as an MKZ.

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A1 and 1-Series are really subcompacts...not compacts. This Lincoln would go up against the A4 which is their best selling model.

 

Point taken that the A4 is Audi's best selling model. And the 3-Series is BMW's best selling model. But you know what? These models pave the way to putting people into A6s and 5-Series. I'd bet that some people who buy 3-Series end up buying a 5-Series when they have enough money. The marque and brand itself is aspirational ... if you can't afford a 5-series, you buy a 3-series. Same goes for the A6 versus A4.

 

In order for Lincoln to have this effect work, they'd have to be an aspirational brand - which, IMO, they are not at the moment. When was the last time you heard someone say "Man, I really want a Lincoln!" ? I think Lexus has that sort of mentality behind it after about 20 years of hard work ... but Lincoln? Not exactly ... sadly enough, Lincoln is the weakest luxury brand in America.

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Aren't the A4 and 3 series compact cars also? They're pretty small. The problem with the smallest luxury compacts is price. They are not that much cheaper than the larger cars, so why bother? The new Focus is going to be a very nice car, and I am sure the price will venture over $25k fully equipped ( the Mazda3 already does, as does the Golf and Jetta.) Where does that leave a compact Lincoln when you can be sure that a 2.0T MKZ in the low $30's is coming.

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A4, 3-series, IS and C-class are all technically compact. And they sell pretty well. In fact, it's probably the second largest segment behind entry-level CUVs.

 

And when you look at the demographics and cross-shopping behavior, most of the people who buys these aren't necessarily aspiring to the mid-sized car and settling. There's also not a lot of evidence that they are then trading up to the mid-sized luxury vehicle in the line later... maybe the CUV? In general, they are aspiring to the brand.

 

So, Lincoln has its work cut out for it to be an aspirational brand... and that kind of brand investment (marketing and product) is the reason why Mercury had to go. Lincoln also has a very long way to go to attract the masses in the Bay Area, LA, and the Northeast who eat up tens of thousands of compact luxury cars each year and have a median age of maybe 39. But with the right vehicle and message they can.

 

It seems that everyone assumes the MKC is simply a badge job or will be awkward like the C30. I doubt it. And I doubt that the 2.0DI from the Focus will even make it anywhere near the vehicle. The base engine might be the 1.6EB with 180-190 hp, and it will likely offer the 2.0EB... along with a compact V6 or larger I-4?

 

It will probably be as close to the Focus as the A4 is to the Jetta - and that's a pretty decent distance. And I suspect that Ford will invest in things like additional tech and maybe a more sophisticated DSG to further differentiate the MKC beyond sheetmetal and engines.

 

Lincoln needs to reinvent itself. A compact vehicle is one step in that direction. The MKX redesign is another step (even if it is more of a badge job than I would like to see). The further differentiation of the MKS and MKZ from their platform mates in the future will help even more. And they will be differentiated. Anyone who thinks that Ford is going to settle with rebadge jobs on Lincoln vehicles going forward doesn't understand the full ramifications of the decision announced today.

 

I just wish it would have happened sooner...

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Seriously, some of you are really over thinking this. Ford has done a Focus based Premium C-car before and it will probably do a pretty decent job again.

 

800px-Volvo_S40_2_--_07-09-2009.jpg

 

And this segment will get really busy in a hurry in the next couple of years:

 

2011_buick_excelle_sedan_leak_images_main.jpg

lexus-ct-200h.jpg

800px-%2710_Acura_CSX_iTech.jpg

 

Mercedes also confirmed 4 door B-class spinoff (likely called BLS) will be in the US...

122107.jpg

 

And of course the 4 door Audi A3...

And likely return of some type of C-segment Saab

And the new Volvo S40

Not to mention BMW is likely to stick with the 1 series

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Younger car buyers do not associate big=status as old timers. CAFE is not going to be repealed, also, fuel is not ever going to be as cheap as it was in olden days of 1968 & 1998. The Germans are bringing out compacts, since there are madates globally to save fuel. Younger buyers again do not care about size and have no emotional attachment to the 50, 60s and 70s land yachts.

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Well, one thing that they did say is that the entire lLincoln line will have Ecoboost options.

 

So think Focus RS.

 

People pooh-pooh the idea of bringing the RS to North America because they can't justify the attached pricetag for what North Americans would deride as "still just a Focus".

 

So Ford could still charge $35G for a 305HP Focus. But it'll be a Lincoln. Won't directly be compared to the Mustang. Great driving dynamics. High tech.

 

You would attract younger people to the brand.

 

Something to consider.

Agree! I'd put that on my shopping list!

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Keep this is in context...I was looking up numbers for compact SUV Luxury SUV's..and they don't sell alot either..I was suprised at the BMW X3 numbers and saw a website calling the Acura RDX sales numbers a failure. Who else is playing in this market?

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