FordBuyer Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Hmmmm....Mercury sales way up for June...about 26% with Grand Marquis sales way up. Looks like lots of people visited LM dealers looking for those last Mercuries. Conversely, Lincoln sales were down double digits. Looks like buyers are voting. What's up with Explorer sales? Ford sells over 6,000 in June and less than 4,000 Flex. The Explorer is an old design, Metro Dealers don't stock them, and they outsell Flex two to one. Metro Detroit Dealers really stock the Flex, it gets better fuel mileage, and is more modern with much nicer interior. Go figure. Maybe it's fleet. Surprised Ford sold over 1,000 Fiestas in June. Dealers out west must be getting their Fiestas. Metro Detroit sure isn't. Still a phantom vehicle here in Detroit with most Metro dealers luck to see one if that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Hmmmm....Mercury sales way up for June...about 26% with Grand Marquis sales way up. Looks like lots of people visited LM dealers looking for those last Mercuries. Conversely, Lincoln sales were down double digits. Looks like buyers are voting. Err, yeah. That's gotta be it. Or it could be dealers are slashing prices on Mercurys just to get rid of the things. What's up with Explorer sales? Ford sells over 6,000 in June and less than 4,000 Flex. The Explorer is an old design, Metro Dealers don't stock them, and they outsell Flex two to one. Metro Detroit Dealers really stock the Flex, it gets better fuel mileage, and is more modern with much nicer interior. Go figure. Maybe it's fleet. It's price. Similarly equipped, the Flex costs more. MSRP's are similar, but Explorer is being heavily discounted. Really as simple as that. Surprised Ford sold over 1,000 Fiestas in June. Dealers out west must be getting their Fiestas. Metro Detroit sure isn't. Still a phantom vehicle here in Detroit with most Metro dealers luck to see one if that. Good to see it off to a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Hmmmm....Mercury sales way up for June...about 26% with Grand Marquis sales way up. Looks like lots of people visited LM dealers looking for those last Mercuries. Conversely, Lincoln sales were down double digits. Looks like buyers are voting. What's up with Explorer sales? Ford sells over 6,000 in June and less than 4,000 Flex. The Explorer is an old design, Metro Dealers don't stock them, and they outsell Flex two to one. Metro Detroit Dealers really stock the Flex, it gets better fuel mileage, and is more modern with much nicer interior. Go figure. Maybe it's fleet. Surprised Ford sold over 1,000 Fiestas in June. Dealers out west must be getting their Fiestas. Metro Detroit sure isn't. Still a phantom vehicle here in Detroit with most Metro dealers luck to see one if that. two words..."Fire Sales"....dealers dont want to be STUCK with vehicles that have the potential to have birthdays and thus have to be sold at HUGE losses, whilst all the time racking up flooring costs....Flex, blame lack of inventory and BAD lease programs....I really dont understand Fords thinking in relation to that vehicle.... bad judgement IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Does this really need its own topic when it's already been discussed & explained in the "Ford June 2010 Sales Report" topic? For example, Pontiac & Saturn sales were way up right after they got cancelled too, does that mean that GM made the wrong decision? Hardly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintlaz1 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Does this really need its own topic when it's already been discussed & explained in the "Ford June 2010 Sales Report" topic? For example, Pontiac & Saturn sales were way up right after they got cancelled too, does that mean that GM made the wrong decision? Hardly... yeah i think they did with pontiac and yes this does deserve its own topic, Mercury sales have been up for months while lincoln has been down, this is not just a one month thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 (edited) two words..."Fire Sales" +1 I would have been just as happy if Ford had done a full line of Mercury but I can understand their desire to have just Ford Brand plus Lincoln. Edited July 2, 2010 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Hmmmm....Mercury sales way up for June...about 26% with Grand Marquis sales way up. Looks like lots of people visited LM dealers looking for those last Mercuries. Conversely, Lincoln sales were down double digits. Looks like buyers are voting. What's up with Explorer sales? Ford sells over 6,000 in June and less than 4,000 Flex. The Explorer is an old design, Metro Dealers don't stock them, and they outsell Flex two to one. Metro Detroit Dealers really stock the Flex, it gets better fuel mileage, and is more modern with much nicer interior. Go figure. Maybe it's fleet. Surprised Ford sold over 1,000 Fiestas in June. Dealers out west must be getting their Fiestas. Metro Detroit sure isn't. Still a phantom vehicle here in Detroit with most Metro dealers luck to see one if that. Sales discounts could account for both the increase in Mercury sales AND decrease in Lincoln sales (buyers could've gone for the discounted Mercuries instead of base Lincolns?). Fleet sales are my guess for a large portion of Explorer sales. Given that the Flex has a different stance than the Explorer, that could be part of the reason too - some want to be up higher, while Flex is lower. And last time I checked 6,000 vs. 4,000 was not a 2-to-1 figure... Mercury sales have been up for months Really? Hmmm.....you mean like the Mercury sales that were up last month? http://media.ford.com/images/10031/May10sales.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Really? Hmmm.....you mean like the Mercury sales that were up last month? http://media.ford.co.../May10sales.pdf Interesting about Mercury's fortunes this year: January: +5.8% February: +24.5% March: +26.2% April: +19.1% May: -10.7% June: +26.2% Now to this thing about Mercury being more worthy to survive than Lincoln, after six months the sales tally and improvement compared to 2009 is as follows: Lincoln: 43,762 (+14.0%) - cars that sell for $35K to $45K Mercury: 50,930 (+28.0%) - cars that sell between $23K and $30K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 2, 2010 Author Share Posted July 2, 2010 two words..."Fire Sales"....dealers dont want to be STUCK with vehicles that have the potential to have birthdays and thus have to be sold at HUGE losses, whilst all the time racking up flooring costs....Flex, blame lack of inventory and BAD lease programs....I really dont understand Fords thinking in relation to that vehicle.... bad judgement IMO. I really don't think LM dealers are giving away Milans and Mariners. Maybe the Grand Marquis,but not Milan and Mariner. Ford is not going to let its dealers give away the Milan and Marine since they are almost identical to Fusion and Escape. Ford is not throwing extra money to LM dealers to give away these vehicles. And if they aren't, you can bet LM dealers are not doing it on their own and losing a bunch of money with Lincoln already a basket case. If anything, LM dealers would probably want some stock of Mercurys to last into next year to have something to sell. The only exclusive Lincoln LM dealers have is the MKT and a good month there is 900 sold/month nationwide. Most people would rather have a Fusion, Taurus, or Edge rather than an MKZ, MKS, or MKX. So LM dealers are screwed enough without giving away the only popular vehicles they have....Milan and Mariner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Flex...too expensive and baboon ass ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Now to this thing about Mercury being more worthy to survive than Lincoln, after six months the sales tally and improvement compared to 2009 is as follows: Lincoln: 43,762 (+14.0%) - cars that sell for $35K to $45K Mercury: 50,930 (+28.0%) - cars that sell between $23K and $30K And that folks, is why Lincoln lives on and Mercury does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 2, 2010 Author Share Posted July 2, 2010 According to AN production numbers, Ford is only making about 400 Milans a week which is about half of what they usually make. IMO, that is how they are winding down Mercury. Only build a few and keep inventory very low so that they DON'T have to firesale them and mess up residual values of their prized Fusion and Escape. I imagine those who prefer the Milan as I do will be more likely to get off the dime and buy one this summer if they were planning on buying one over the next year. I would also imagine that Ford has cut back production numbers on the Mariner and Grand Marquis and in turn putting out a few more Town Cars and Escapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 2, 2010 Author Share Posted July 2, 2010 And that folks, is why Lincoln lives on and Mercury does not. I don't think very many are against Mercury disappearing from the scene. In fact, it would be hard to make a case for Mercury getting a version of the next Fusion and Escape. But again, Mulally could have waited until changeover to the new Fusion and Escape which is like 18 months or more away. It will be years before Lincoln has new product. YEARS! At least give LM another 18 months to sell thepresent Milan and Mariner. The Milan and Mariner are very popular vehicles in Metro Detroit and in other parts of the country. LM dealers need a bridge to new Lincolns, and Mulally burned that bridge down. Yeah, I know Ford wants to dump a bunch of LM dealers, but I figured Ford would not act like Chrysler did to its dealers. Guess I was wrong. Behind that smiley face, Mulally is very cutthroat. Cut off their legs and arms and rest of body will die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 I don't think very many are against Mercury disappearing from the scene. In fact, it would be hard to make a case for Mercury getting a version of the next Fusion and Escape. But again, Mulally could have waited until changeover to the new Fusion and Escape which is like 18 months or more away. It will be years before Lincoln has new product. YEARS! At least give LM another 18 months to sell thepresent Milan and Mariner. The Milan and Mariner are very popular vehicles in Metro Detroit and in other parts of the country. LM dealers need a bridge to new Lincolns, and Mulally burned that bridge down. Yeah, I know Ford wants to dump a bunch of LM dealers, but I figured Ford would not act like Chrysler did to its dealers. Guess I was wrong. Behind that smiley face, Mulally is very cutthroat. Cut off their legs and arms and rest of body will die. Years? Lincoln gets its new C-segment vehicle and refreshed MKS in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 2, 2010 Author Share Posted July 2, 2010 Years? Lincoln gets its new C-segment vehicle and refreshed MKS in 2011. Not to argue with you, but in what press release did Ford state new C segment vehicle will be out in 2011? And I know the refreshed MKX, MKS, and hybrid MKZ will help, but the help will be very marginal at best since all three are still seen as rebadged Ford's with split wing grilles and heated and cooled seats with huge sticker prices. I would hope Ford will take their time and get the new compact Lincoln very uniqe and exclusive to the Lincoln brand. That will take until at least end of 2011 and perhaps 2012 to do correctly. We are talking all new tophat and drivetrain for Lincoln C. Not one part the same as Focus. To my knowledge, Ford hasn't even barely started on that project since they just ended the Mercury version recently and did have a prototype that got pulled from NYC show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 (edited) Not to argue with you, but in what press release did Ford state new C segment vehicle will be out in 2011? And I know the refreshed MKX, MKS, and hybrid MKZ will help, but the help will be very marginal at best since all three are still seen as rebadged Ford's with split wing grilles and heated and cooled seats with huge sticker prices. I would hope Ford will take their time and get the new compact Lincoln very uniqe and exclusive to the Lincoln brand. That will take until at least end of 2011 and perhaps 2012 to do correctly. We are talking all new tophat and drivetrain for Lincoln C. Not one part the same as Focus. To my knowledge, Ford hasn't even barely started on that project since they just ended the Mercury version recently and did have a prototype that got pulled from NYC show. If fasttracked, it would take far less than 2 years to design a new tophat for a vehicle on existing architecture. No reason to believe it won't happen. All of the drivetrains necessary already exist. And why are you assuming Focus? An Escape/Kuga variant seems far more likely for me, and we know those vehicles are arriving before the end of next year. Edited July 2, 2010 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 2, 2010 Author Share Posted July 2, 2010 If fasttracked, it would take far less than 2 years to design a new tophat for a vehicle on existing architecture. No reason to believe it won't happen. All of the drivetrains necessary already exist. And why are you assuming Focus? An Escape/Kuga variant seems far more likely for me, and we know those vehicles are arriving before the end of next year. I hope you are correct and the cavalry gets here sooner than I expect. By cavalry, I mean all new Lincolns, not rebadged Ford models with different front and rear clips and options. For example, Hines Park LM has a used 2008 Edge selling for $22,000 with I believe 25,000 miles. Next to it is a very nice 2008 MKX with 40,000 miles selling for $20,000. If the MKX was truly different from the Edge and worth the price difference, it would be selling for much more as two year old model even with 15,000 more miles on odometer. Yeah, Lincoln is going to challenge Mulally even as much as Ford did in some ways. IMO Lincoln needs: A very effective President who can turn this brand around with effective marketing Exclusive dealerships much like Toyota did with Lexus Free maintenance and extended warranties Exclusive bodies, drivetrains, and RWD platform Its own engineers and designers in house A new building on Ford campus housing the Lincoln staff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 I hope you are correct and the cavalry gets here sooner than I expect. By cavalry, I mean all new Lincolns, not rebadged Ford models with different front and rear clips and options. For example, Hines Park LM has a used 2008 Edge selling for $22,000 with I believe 25,000 miles. Next to it is a very nice 2008 MKX with 40,000 miles selling for $20,000. If the MKX was truly different from the Edge and worth the price difference, it would be selling for much more as two year old model even with 15,000 more miles on odometer. Yeah, Lincoln is going to challenge Mulally even as much as Ford did in some ways. IMO Lincoln needs: I'd say your comparison isn't very valid...your basing your facts on a state that is one of the hardest hit states in the union when it comes to the recession or whatever you want to call what we are in...I did some pricing on Edumnds, and according to them, there is about a 6K price difference between the MKX and Edge..which is right in line with the RX and Highlander with the same mileage as your examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 2, 2010 Author Share Posted July 2, 2010 I'd say your comparison isn't very valid...your basing your facts on a state that is one of the hardest hit states in the union when it comes to the recession or whatever you want to call what we are in...I did some pricing on Edumnds, and according to them, there is about a 6K price difference between the MKX and Edge..which is right in line with the RX and Highlander with the same mileage as your examples. I have to say, I did a double take when I saw same year MKX selling for less than Edge next to it even though it had more miles. Most of the time an MKX at this dealership sells for about $28,000 given that it's two years old. A 2008 Mariner sells for $22,000 at Hines Park. So it certainly caught my eye to see such a low price on a 2008 MKX. I would be suspicious that there is something wrong with it, but body was fine. However, used car prices IMO are way too high right now and I think you will see some softening coming considering that the stock market is freefalling down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 A very effective President who can turn this brand around with effective marketing That's Farley's job Exclusive dealerships much like Toyota did with Lexus In the works Free maintenance and extended warranties Already announced Exclusive bodies Already exist, will be standard with all new models moving forward Exclusive drivetrains Already announced and RWD platform Rumored to be so Its own engineers and designers in house Unnecessary A new building on Ford campus housing the Lincoln staff Unnecessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravestar Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Flex...too expensive and baboon ass ugly. Maybe that is why dealers do not stock them, no demand...except for California Dean. Rebates are within $500 of each other, last time I checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Flex...too expensive and baboon ass ugly. with an attitude like that I'm not surprized your delership struggles sellin em...WE have a shortage.....the only issue is a lack of lease programs otherwise sales ( barring the supply issues ) would double..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 the only issue is a lack of lease programs otherwise sales ( barring the supply issues ) would double..... Seems like Ford isn't really pursuing favorable lease rates across the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Non competitive leasing deals, is what you get, when you don't have access to the cheap money, like a savings bank does. Remember that Ford petitioned for savings bank status, the same as GMAC. GMAC was illegally granted savings bank status (it never fulfilled the requirements, by a longshot), and has been a happy money pit TARP participant ever since (I laugh when I hear they were profitable last quarter. After they have received $15B in TARP funds). Thus, they pay much more for their money, than GMAC does. I do find it to be an "odd" coincidence, that Fords petition has been systemically ignored. Thus, Ford has to pick and choose where to utilize subsidized leases. They cannot afford the $199 Malibu deals, or incredibly cheap CTS and SRX deals. It is nice that our government has chosen to play with competitiveness like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Seems like Ford isn't really pursuing favorable lease rates across the board. weird but true...only two jump to mind, Edge and Fusion.....tried a Mustang yesterday...no lease program, same with the F-150s.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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