Jeep Grand Chrokee or 2011 Explorer?

[FordBuyer]

I see that Ford said that new Explorer already started shipping to dealers and that by spring when inventory is good they will offer incentives to present Explorer owners on buying new one. With that being said, once Explorer sales ramp up, which SUV will sell better, the RWD GC or the new FWD Explorer? The new GC is selling at about 11,000/month and one of the top sellers most months so far. I personally see the Explorer selling in the 7,000-10,000/month range with the Jeep being above that as it is now. With CAP already building the Taurus/MKS, I doubt if CAP can produce more than 10,000 Explorers/month while Chrysler's Jefferson North plant can produce over 200,000 GC's on two shifts along with the new Dodge Durango. The Explorer gets a little better fuel mileage than Penstar V6, but not enough to make much of a difference in fuel costs. However, the nod in quality goes to Ford as quality out of Jefferson North has always been suspect. Hopefully Chrysler is getting some control over quality at JN. And I would say that the new Grand Cherokee and Explorer are the best SUVs out there at the moment.

[J-150]

The GC still offers RWD and large engines. There are still many that are willing to spend that money on gas.

[Anthony]

Hard to say, the Explorer starts 2 grand less then the Jeep. I'd say the Explorer would outsell the Jeep in the end because it is a bit more mainstream. I'd choose the Jeep over the Explorer myself, though I'm not in the market for either.

[NickF1011]

With Ford offering more vehicles that fill the gaps in their SUV/CUV lineup than Jeep, I doubt the Explorer will outsell the GC. Of course, it doesn't have to either. Jeep is covering the C/D+ market with the Liberty and Grand Cherokee while Ford is splitting that market with the Edge, Explorer, Flex, and Expedition.

[ANTAUS]

I would never buy the Jeep because it's a Chrysler and the reliability will probably be lackluster, but the GC will probably appeal more to those who prefer a real 4x4 system, while the Explorer will probably appeal to more of the soccer mom crowd. I think Ford will have to push the advertising the Explorer to let them know this is a very different vehicle than what the Explorer really was.

[RichardJensen]

Bigger question: which will be more profitable?

 

My guess: Explorer. Broader amortization base for nearly all costs.

[akirby]

Bigger question: which will be more profitable?

 

My guess: Explorer. Broader amortization base for nearly all costs.

 

Not to mention higher cost options and a mfr who doesn't have to throw tons of cash on the hood.

[sullynd]

Bigger question: which will be more profitable?

 

My guess: Explorer. Broader amortization base for nearly all costs.

 

Does Fiat have to pay Daimler for each GC/Durango it makes? (They are both derivatives of the ML platform)

[Anthony]

Does Fiat have to pay Daimler for each GC/Durango it makes? (They are both derivatives of the ML platform)

 

They were co-developed from the beginning to share a platform. I've heard Chrysler actually took the lead on the development of it....regardless, I don't believe there are any payments required for this joint development in either direction.

[Anthony]

Not to mention higher cost options and a mfr who doesn't have to throw tons of cash on the hood.

 

Here's the current national incentives for both.

 

National Incentives 2011 Ford Explorer

 

National Incentives 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee (I want the $25k rebate!)

[Anthony]

Bigger question: which will be more profitable?

 

My guess: Explorer. Broader amortization base for nearly all costs.

 

Probable. The platform has been around a lot longer and has more vehicles to spread the costs across. (However, platform amortization and costs are also determined by how much revenue the other vehicles make as well, though I'm sure Lincoln has their own cost center vs Ford (most likely between cars and trucks as well).

[Sevensecondsuv]

This is comparing apples to oranges. The 2011 Explorer and GC are aimed at different markets. Comparing how many they sell is rather meaningless. Also, judging by Fords current product offerings and future vehicle plans (the ones we've heard about anyways), there is obviously not a viable business case for Ford building a vehicle to compete in the GC's market. Which is strange, given that Jeep is selling 11K of the things a month.

[NickF1011]

Here's the current national incentives for both.

 

National Incentives 2011 Ford Explorer

 

National Incentives 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee (I want the $25k rebate!)

 

Eh, the only 2011 Explorer offers that looks to apply to everyone are the $500 early order bonus and $1000 retail cash. :shrug:

Edited December 8, 2010 by NickF1011

[Anthony]

Eh, the only 2011 Explorer offers that looks to apply to everyone are the $500 early order bonus and $1000 retail cash.

 

Yes...and the GC has nothing that applies to everyone. Hence, I don't understand the original statement the its needs money on the hood to sell them. From what I've been reading, they are selling close to MSRP with no incentives. Unless he was just referring to Chrysler in general. But even that recently is not true:

 

Last month, Ford spent $3,206 per vehicle on average; GM spent $3,345 and continues to offer 0% for 60 months on several vehicles and customer cash. Chrysler is spending $2,975 on average, while Honda spent $1,422 last month versus $1,296 last year, according to the firm.

 

Link

 

However, let's get Apples to Apples: Ford also sells a lot more big-ticket trucks, so their incentive spending would naturally be higher then Chrysler's in the end.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Intrepidatious

[NickF1011]

However, let's get Apples to Apples: Ford also sells a lot more big-ticket trucks, so their incentive spending would naturally be higher then Chrysler's in the end.

 

That's the part that always gets me about seeing incentive spending by brand - particularly when articles compare spending by say Ford and GM to brands like Honda and Hyundai. Incentives should be counted as a percentage of MSRP, not as a monetary value.

[jpd80]

I was looking at how much profit and debt Ford has paid down just this year alone, it add up to over $18 billion.

A few more years of that and Ford's previously large borrowings will disappear and be replaced by huge profit.

 

Until Chrysler starts making similar returns to Ford, comparing the sales of Explorer to GC is pretty pointless.

Edited December 8, 2010 by jpd80

[NickF1011]

I was looking at how much profit and debt Ford has paid down just this year alone, it add up to over $18 billion.

A few more years of that and Ford's previously large borrowings will disappear and be replaced by huge profit.

 

Until Chrysler starts making similar returns to Ford, comparing the sales of Explorer to GC is pretty pointless.

 

Well, Chrysler has to start somewhere in winning back the goodwill of the carbuyer. The new Grand Cherokee is certainly a good start. Now if they can finally transfer all of those lessons learned to the rest of their lineup...

[akirby]

Yes...and the GC has nothing that applies to everyone. Hence, I don't understand the original statement the its needs money on the hood to sell them. From what I've been reading, they are selling close to MSRP with no incentives. Unless he was just referring to Chrysler in general. But even that recently is not true:

 

Yes, I was referring to Chrysler in general. I think Ford's numbers are skewed by a few vehicles.

 

I noticed the 2010 GC has $5500 in rebates. I'm sure that they're keeping the 2011 incentives low until they move out the 2010s but if they're selling 11K/month with almost no incentives that's pretty good. Let's check back in a year.

[NickF1011]

I noticed the 2010 GC has $5500 in rebates. I'm sure that they're keeping the 2011 incentives low until they move out the 2010s but if they're selling 11K/month with almost no incentives that's pretty good. Let's check back in a year.

 

I wonder how many 2010 GC's Chrysler still has in stock? If it's a lot, then the $5500 in rebates could sure have a lot to do with the 11K/month sales right now.

[Anthony]

I wonder how many 2010 GC's Chrysler still has in stock? If it's a lot, then the $5500 in rebates could sure have a lot to do with the 11K/month sales right now.

 

Of the 16,800 GC's on cars.com new vehicle nationwide search, 110 are 2010 models.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Intrepidatious

[TomServo92]

Of the 16,800 GC's on cars.com new vehicle nationwide search, 110 are 2010 models.

 

Of which it could be inferred that a lot of 2010's may have been moved last month.

[Anthony]

Of which it could be inferred that a lot of 2010's may have been moved last month.

 

There's also 4,610 2010 Explorers out there as well for when we start counting.

[TomServo92]

There's also 4,610 2010 Explorers out there as well for when we start counting.

 

Which could be inferred to mean there's less money on the hood for those.... :D

[Anthony]

Which could be inferred to mean there's less money on the hood for those.... :D

 

LOL!

[Kev-Mo]

JGC is selling at 11k a month now...once all the "got to have it" folks get done buying, I predict the number will drop. That being said, most non-Ford fans still don't know there is an "all-new" Explorer, so it's sales will have to ramp up. I guess they will meet in the middle about June/July of 2011.