fordmantpw Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Agree. Two tests. One with LDs and the other with HDs. Even better!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Agree. Two tests. One with LDs and the other with HDs. Mike, Do you think the next gen Super Duty will have a fully boxed frame or will they stay with an open c section? Which would you prefer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 The new GM HD chassis and suspension is state-of-the-art. The Super Duty is a great truck, but it is starting to show it's age. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 The new GM HD chassis and suspension is state-of-the-art. The Super Duty is a great truck, but it is starting to show it's age. And yet, the Super Duty has class leading towing. There's nothing bad about the truck at all. In certain conditions, different vehicles simply perform better than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) ............. Edited December 12, 2010 by Bryan1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeputc Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Mike, Do you think the next gen Super Duty will have a fully boxed frame or will they stay with an open c section? Which would you prefer? Yes. I think the next Ford Super Duty will have a boxed frame. Right now, I like what GM has done with their boxed frame and suspension improvements. Ram 2500/3500 is also boxed. But all of these trucks are tremendously capable and awesome. I think any fan of domestic vehicles should be very proud. Competing only amongst themselves, all three have built the best trucks we've ever driven. 2011 is a huge win for HD truck buyers, regardless of brand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stng1996 Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Yes. I think the next Ford Super Duty will have a boxed frame. Right now, I like what GM has done with their boxed frame and suspension improvements. Ram 2500/3500 is also boxed. But all of these trucks are tremendously capable and awesome. I think any fan of domestic vehicles should be very proud. Competing only amongst themselves, all three have built the best trucks we've ever driven. 2011 is a huge win for HD truck buyers, regardless of brand. The reason why the Ford Super Duty does not have a fully boxed frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Yes. I think the next Ford Super Duty will have a boxed frame. Right now, I like what GM has done with their boxed frame and suspension improvements. Ram 2500/3500 is also boxed. But all of these trucks are tremendously capable and awesome. I think any fan of domestic vehicles should be very proud. Competing only amongst themselves, all three have built the best trucks we've ever driven. 2011 is a huge win for HD truck buyers, regardless of brand. What benefit will you get from going to a fully boxed frame? What are the negatives? Why would this be good for Ford, who is the current class leader in sales (partly because of the fact they use an open C, that is more easily configurable)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Why the hell does the Ford Super Duty weigh 800 more pounds than the Chevy HD? That is a massive amount of extra weight to carry around considering both trucks have very similar capabilities. Ford needs to put its pickup trucks on big diet. If I were Mulally, I would be posing that question to Ford engineers. Get the lard out! I pull a 36ft 5th Wheel RV 12600 lb GW. I want a heavy pull horse and I don't want the tail wagging the dog. Do you pull heavy trailers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Why the hell does the Ford Super Duty weigh 800 more pounds than the Chevy HD? That is a massive amount of extra weight to carry around considering both trucks have very similar capabilities. Ford needs to put its pickup trucks on big diet. If I were Mulally, I would be posing that question to Ford engineers. Get the lard out! You don't understand a thing about how heavy duty pickups are used in the US do you? Weight matters on a performance car NOT on a heavy duty pickup. You think that taking some of the metal out and lighting it up will make it a more durable truck? I can promise you those extra 800 pounds aren't because the plastic dash weighs more on the Ford. Those extra pounds are in the frame and the front suspension components. You take these trucks out and start working them hard on large cattle ranches, oil fields, construction sites, etc. and the extra strength matters. Ford's Super Duty is built for years and years of service in the harshest conditions. Nobody except you cares about weight in this class they care about durability. The Chevy might have a few better performance figures because it is lighter and the Dodge might have a great engine in the Cummings, but I can promise you one thing... The last truck standing when it comes to the test of time will be the Super Duty. No one builds a tougher heavy duty pickup then Ford. When someone needs to haul cattle in a large trailer out to some rough rangeland in the middle of Wyoming I can tell you the last thing they are thinking is... "Wow I wish Ford would lighten this truck up." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Fords are only fully boxed in the half ton. Only the front of the frame is fully boxed on the Super Duty. The rest is open c section down the frame. The c section makes it easier for Ford to put on different frames and for upfitters. But in the tests the fully boxed frame makes for a better ride and more payload and better traction in the shootouts. Pickuptrucks.com and Motor Trend said the Chevy and GM have a better ride due to the frame. Ford will have to put an all new frame on the next redesign. Although Popular Mechanics test did say the Super Duty has a slightly better ride than GM. I'll have to side with MT and pickuptrucks.com on the fully boxed frame giving the better ride because PM was the one I've seen that said Ford had the better ride. I agree about the features. The performance is close, so it will come down to features for most buyers. Please explain how the awards are for sale. I'm interested in hearing about this. I went on a Ride and drive event with C&D in Charlotte a couple of years ago. It was basicaly a Cadillac advertisement. It had Car and Driver sings all over. We drove the STS and BMW 5 series and the SRX and RX330 on a set up course. I asked one of the guys, "so who's paying for this, who's supposed to win?" He said "wait until you exit through the tent". It was purely a Cadillac event hosted by C&D. We had to fill out surveys and if they liked it, you could end up in the magazine saying how great Cadillac is. The media is a business, no matter if its the News on 9 or a magazine. In this case, who bought the largest ad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packardbob Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 I bet when you pull up to the pump you wish Ford would really lighten the truck up. LOL just kidding. Long term durability is only one of the reasons the Ford weighs more. That 800-1200 pounds extra you get on a Ford is designed to create the most stable towing platform you can buy. Have you ever maxed out GVWRs on a Chevy or Dodge? It's a challenge on the Dodge and downright scary on the Chevy. Granted it has been a few years since I have pulled anything with a truck as I now have a more stable gig, but towing with a Ford feels alot safer than towing with either of the other two in both solidity and control. On a side note I saw one of those Max and Al commercials on TV, I had no idea that crap was seriously made for a TV commercial, I thought it was kind of an internet advertisement that only diesel diehards might see. They really need to come up with some better stuff than that if they want to appeal to heavy duty truck buyers. The first thing my uncle asked me was if Max and Al were supposed to come off as gay. So unless GM is trying to appeal to gay heavy duty truck buyers only, they might want to change their advertising strategies a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeputc Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 One thing MT hasn't published yet (or I haven't been able to find it) are detailed specs for each truck. I've tested 2011 one-ton Ford and Chevy trucks that weighed within 200 pounds of each other on a CAT scale. That's a very small difference. I'm curious to see how MT's trucks were configured. A boxed frame provides stiffness while reducing weight. I can see Ford offering fully boxed F-250, F-350 and F-450 pickups but obviously keeping C-channel for F-450 and up chassis cabs because of upfitter needs. Guess we'll find out in a few years, or maybe sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 A boxed frame provides stiffness while reducing weight. I think the greater benefit is a lower ride height with comparable stiffness. A boxed section doesn't have to be as tall as an open C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Motor Trend's awards are for sale. Anyone who believes that this award reflects a serious comparison............................................................ 1+............... Lets see some of the awesome winners they picked over the past 30+ years: 2002 Ford Thunderbird (Not a bad looking car but a mechanical nightmare like most Ford products from this era) 1983 AMC / Renault Alliance 1976 Chrysler, Dodge Aspen and Plymouth Volare 1975 Chevrolet Monza 2+2 1974 Ford Mustang II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Guess we'll find out in a few years, or maybe sooner. OK Mike, spill the beans. When will we know...when is the next SD coming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 I think the greater benefit is a lower ride height with comparable stiffness. A boxed section doesn't have to be as tall as an open C. Makes sense that a boxed frame would be stiffer. In a big truck, the true measure of frame size is a number known as the "RBM" or resistance bending moment. Its the product of the frames section modulus times the steel yield strength. There is a lot more to frame strength then "boxed vs. "C". Motor Trend? Yawn-hairdressers! Let's hope the new PS lives up to the hype. I also would like to see Ford do something to make the warranty numbers look a little more competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Here's the entire COTY / TOTY since they began awarding them single vehicles and not entire car divisions. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Trend_Car_of_the_Year Car of the Year 2011 Chevrolet Volt 2010 Ford Fusion 2009 Nissan GT-R 2008 Cadillac CTS 2007 Toyota Camry 2006 Honda Civic 2005 Chrysler 300 2004 Toyota Prius 2003 Infiniti G35 2002 Ford Thunderbird 2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser 2000 Lincoln LS 1999 Chrysler 300M 1998 Chevrolet Corvette 1997 Chevrolet Malibu 1996 Dodge Caravan 1995 Chrysler Cirrus 1994 Ford Mustang 1993 Ford Probe GT 1992 Cadillac Seville Touring Sedan 1991 Chevrolet Caprice Classic LTZ 1990 Lincoln Town Car 1989 Ford Thunderbird SC 1988 Pontiac Grand Prix 1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe 1986 Ford Taurus LX 1985 Volkswagen GTI (eligible due to it being built in VW's now-defunct Pennsylvania plant) 1984 Chevrolet Corvette 1983 AMC / Renault Alliance 1982 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 1981 Chrysler K Cars, Dodge Aries and Plymouth Reliant 1980 Chevrolet Citation 1979 Buick Riviera S 1978 Chrysler, Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon 1977 Chevrolet Caprice 1976 Chrysler, Dodge Aspen and Plymouth Volare 1975 Chevrolet Monza 2+2 1974 Ford Mustang II 1973 Chevrolet Monte Carlo 1972 Citroën SM (an imported vehicle that was selected overall "Car of the Year") 1971 Chevrolet Vega 1970 Ford Torino 1969 Plymouth Road Runner 1968 Pontiac GTO 1967 Mercury Cougar 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado Truck of the Year 2011 Chevrolet Silverado HD [12] 2010 Dodge Ram Heavy Duty [13] 2009 Ford F-150 2008 Toyota Tundra 2007 Chevrolet Silverado 2006 Honda Ridgeline 2005 Toyota Tacoma 2004 Ford F-150 2003 Dodge Ram Heavy Duty 2002 Chevrolet Avalanche 2001 Chevrolet Silverado Heavy Duty 2000 Toyota Tundra 1999 Chevrolet Silverado 1998 Mercedes-Benz M-Class 1997 Ford F-150 1996 Chevrolet Tahoe 1995 Chevrolet Blazer 1994 Dodge Ram 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee 1992 Ford Van Chateau Club Wagon 1991 Mazda Navajo 1990 Ford Aerostar 1989 Toyota Truck Xtracab SR5 1980-1988 No award 1979 Chevrolet LUV Sport/Utility of the Year 2011 Porsche Cayenne 2010 Subaru Outback 2009 Subaru Forester 2008 Mazda CX-9 2007 Mercedes-Benz GL-Class 2006 Nissan Xterra 2005 Land Rover LR3 2004 Volkswagen Touareg 2003 Volvo XC90 2002 GMC Envoy 2001 Acura MDX 2000 Nissan Xterra 1999 Lexus RX300 Import Car of the Year Introduced in 1970 for one year and then brought back in 1976 due to distinguishing differences between imports and American cars, was discontinued after the 1999 model year when the line between what is truly American and what isn't became very blurry. 1999 Volkswagen New Beetle 1998 Lexus GS 1997 BMW 5-Series 1996 Mercedes-Benz E-Class 1995 Nissan Maxima 1994 Honda Accord 1993 Mazda RX-7 1992 Lexus SC 400 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 1990 Nissan 300ZX Turbo 1989 Mitsubishi Galant GS 1988 Honda CRX Si 1987 Acura Legend Coupe 1986 Mazda RX-7 1985 Toyota MR2 1984 Honda Civic CRX 1983 Mazda 626 1982 Toyota Celica Supra 1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD 1980 Honda Civic 1979 Datsun 280ZX 1978 Toyota Celica 1977 Mercedes-Benz 280E 1976 Toyota Celica Liftback 1971-1975 no award 1970 Porsche 914 Number of "OTY" awards per Manufacturer (largest advertising revenue to MT?) GM (26) Chevrolet 19 Pontiac 2 Cadillac 2 Buick 1 GMC 1 Oldsmobile 1 Ford (19) Ford 14 Lincoln 2 Mercury 1 Land Rover 1 (during ownership) Volvo 1 (during ownership) Chrysler (13) (+2 MB Vehicles during their merger) Chrysler 7 Dodge 4 Jeep 1 Plymouth 1 Toyota (13) Toyota 10 Lexus 3 Honda (8) Honda 6 Acura 2 Nissan (7) Nissan 5 Infiniti 1 Datsun 1 Mazda 5 (did not include in Ford numbers since not fully owned) Mercedes-Benz 5 Volkswagen 3 Mitsubishi 2 Subaru 2 Porsche 2 Citroën 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 I also would like to see Ford do something to make the warranty numbers look a little more competitive. Warranty on the PS is the same as the Duramax and Cummins...5 year 100k miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Warranty on the PS is the same as the Duramax and Cummins...5 year 100k miles. i just looked on fords website. on a f450 6.7l it only has a 60/60000k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 The F250 and F350 I know have 5 year/100k miles. Don't know for sure on the F450 though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 I was confused about this too but the powertrain warranty for the 6.4 from the previous model is 5y/100k. The new 6.7 is 5y/100k You can see it on the window sticker here: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/10/rumble-in-the-rockies-are-these-the-most-evenly-matched-trucks-ever-1.html and on ford's website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 OK Mike, spill the beans. When will we know...when is the next SD coming? Yeah, Mike, when is the 2013-4 Super Duty article coming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 I think the greater benefit is a lower ride height with comparable stiffness. A boxed section doesn't have to be as tall as an open C. That is a factor. All things being equal, a box is inherently stronger than a channel. In addition, the GM's boxed frame rails are made of 60,000 psi steel, while Ford uses 36,000 psi steel. One of the reason in years past the Super Duty was so much heavier than comparable GM and Dodge pickups was because of the lower grade steel Ford used in their frames. Ford had to use thick heavy rails to get the strength they wanted. However, there was a couple of advantages to that design. The lower grade steel is easier to straighten if bent, and C channel frame rails are easier to mount aftermarket bodies. Surprisingly, the 2011 HD's are now just about the same weight as the Super Duty, but I believe the GM frame rails have a substantially higher RBM than the Ford. If that is the case, GM has surpassed Ford in frame strength at the same weight. That is significant, and is the reason I think (as Mike does) that the next generation Super Duty will have a boxed frame too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Angus Mackenzie is a douche bag.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.