pointy Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Let's get the facts straight. Doing the math $400,000,000 / 3750 = $106,666.67 per employee. Ford qualifies for the tax incentive. Or $400,000,000 / 1000 Ford still qualifies for the tax incentive. Ford cuts and reshuffles jobs constantly in the name of making a profit. Ford has made a commitment to replace the Escape with some 'unmentionable' product. If it only takes a 1000 people to build it, Ford will not 'retain' 1001 people. There is absolutely nothing in the law that states Ford must keep an employment level of 3750 jobs for KCAP. The Transit will not take 3 production shifts to build, it will not be a highly demanded vehicle. But Ford will still get the tax incentive because it did 'retain' SOME jobs and has met all the other requirements of the law. Do not confuse (10) "Notice of intent" of House Bill 2 with KCAP of having to keep employee levels at the current Escape levels. The numbers given by Ford in the (10)"Notice of intent" are only used by the state to see if it meets the requirements of (11) "Qualified manufacturing company" to receive the tax incentive. Use your friend Google and find the meaning of the word INTENT. I don't want anyone to be laid off but the possibility exists. You are only confusing people into thinking ALL jobs will remain here at KCAP due to HB 2. Sprinter, I am by no means trying to insult your intellegence here, but how in the world do YOU know what it's going to take to build the Transit? How do you know if it's not capable of keeping 3 shifts going? How do you know if the Transit is what we're getting? ALL they said is that they're going to invest $400 million. How can you take this Positive news and turn it to a negative? I'm sorry, but I don't care if they want us to produce friggin' Raman Noodles, we'lll make the best dog-gone noodles the world has ever ate! and you and I will still be friggin' working! RELAX! and take in the good news for a while. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinter Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Sprinter, I am by no means trying to insult your intellegence here, but how in the world do YOU know what it's going to take to build the Transit? How do you know if it's not capable of keeping 3 shifts going? How do you know if the Transit is what we're getting? ALL they said is that they're going to invest $400 million. How can you take this Positive news and turn it to a negative? I'm sorry, but I don't care if they want us to produce friggin' Raman Noodles, we'lll make the best dog-gone noodles the world has ever ate! and you and I will still be friggin' working! RELAX! and take in the good news for a while. The Transit is a light duty commercial van and happens to be the best selling business van in Europe. But will it sell here in large numbers? I have seen a few Transit Connects on the road, but only 2 or 3. With the problems small business is facing with the present economy, I don't think there is going to be a huge rush to replace there present transportation. This is not a vehicle you are going to buy for the wife and kids. And remember the Contour which was also a European design. I don't know for sure we are getting the Transit to replace the Escape. I have heard various rumors. Also our present plant manager worked in Europe at the plant that made the Transit. According to Dale, they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. But who knows what we will get? I sure there are several in Detroit who know. I just question why they are keeping this a secret. But it is good news Ford is spending the money here and not some place else. Edited January 21, 2011 by sprinter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Harley Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 With 20 plus variations, there are alot of opportunities for the Transit. Dual rear wheel, Sport package, XXL, etc.... Plus, is it replacing the E-series van? There's more news to come, good news at that. They just aren't going to put it out there just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCJohn Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The Transit is a light duty commercial van and happens to be the best selling business van in Europe. But will it sell here in large numbers? I have seen a few Transit Connects on the road, but only 2 or 3. With the problems small business is facing with the present economy, I don't think there is going to be a huge rush to replace there present transportation. This is not a vehicle you are going to buy for the wife and kids. And remember the Contour which was also a European design. I don't know for sure we are getting the Transit to replace the Escape. I have heard various rumors. Also our present plant manager worked in Europe at the plant that made the Transit. According to Dale, they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. But who knows what we will get? I sure there are several in Detroit who know. I just question why they are keeping this a secret. But it is good news Ford is spending the money here and not some place else. This is my first post here. Usually just read but wanted to make an observation. Sprinter, I think you are confusing the Transit Connect with the Transit Van. They are two separate vehicles. As I understand it there are many variations and they won't be able to make but 30 an hour. But I don't think they will run more than two shifts. So unless they bring the night shift back to the truck side some people might be left out in the cold. These are just my opinions and worth exactly what you paid for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinter Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 This is my first post here. Usually just read but wanted to make an observation. Sprinter, I think you are confusing the Transit Connect with the Transit Van. They are two separate vehicles. As I understand it there are many variations and they won't be able to make but 30 an hour. But I don't think they will run more than two shifts. So unless they bring the night shift back to the truck side some people might be left out in the cold. These are just my opinions and worth exactly what you paid for them. I have seen the Transit Connects. One of them has been in the Ford employee parking lot. I have only seen pictures of the larger Transit vans. Not for sure which if either is going to replace the Escape. But I did hear one time they were measuring different areas of the line to check on the maximum length of vehicle for e-coat and paint. Since the Connect is close to the size of the escape, I don't think they would be checking for that particular model. Could be a new bodyshop, e-coat and paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Harley Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Harley Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 This is for Sprinter primarily but it also is for those wondering about job retention which is what I've been trying to get across to him. Two references made in the article from Ford's main spokesperson saying they will retain all 3750 jobs at the plant. That's not to say there won't be a layoff while re-tooling however. KCAP Article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tincup2b Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 [i'm sure many of you have thought of this but I have a question. If LAP is getting $600 million to re-tool for the Escape wouldn't it take approx. the same to re-tool KCAP for whatever product they are getting? Why is KCAP only getting $400 million for re-tooling? I have heard all along that the Transit is going to be the next vehicle built on the SUV side at KCAP but it will not fit through the paint / E-coat tanks. If this is the case I don't think $400 million will pay for a new body shop along with tooling for trim and chassis and a new paint and e-coat system. With only $400 million in investments looks like maybe a vehicle closet to the same size as the Escape will be coming to KCAP. I guess we will find out when the company is good and ready for us to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uawxlt Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [i'm sure many of you have thought of this but I have a question. If LAP is getting $600 million to re-tool for the Escape wouldn't it take approx. the same to re-tool KCAP for whatever product they are getting? Why is KCAP only getting $400 million for re-tooling? I have heard all along that the Transit is going to be the next vehicle built on the SUV side at KCAP but it will not fit through the paint / E-coat tanks. If this is the case I don't think $400 million will pay for a new body shop along with tooling for trim and chassis and a new paint and e-coat system. With only $400 million in investments looks like maybe a vehicle closet to the same size as the Escape will be coming to KCAP. I guess we will find out when the company is good and ready for us to. KCAP is more fexible than LAP it takes a complete retool to go from truck platform to car 200 million KCAP trim areas and main line need very litle retooling to build a car we need a new flexable body shop and updated paint shop Good Luck guessing what is coming to KCAP :happy feet: we do know the f-150 is going to be built here :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinter Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 This is for Sprinter primarily but it also is for those wondering about job retention which is what I've been trying to get across to him. Two references made in the article from Ford's main spokesperson saying they will retain all 3750 jobs at the plant. That's not to say there won't be a layoff while re-tooling however. KCAP Article I hope that will happen. But that means what ever we get to replace the Escape must sell the same numbers. I have been through life long enough and know that companies will say one thing then turn around and do something different. Bottom line; sales are needed to support production. People need to be aware of that. Only time will tell what will happen here at KCAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towelboy Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I hope that will happen. But that means what ever we get to replace the Escape must sell the same numbers. I have been through life long enough and know that companies will say one thing then turn around and do something different. Bottom line; sales are needed to support production. People need to be aware of that. Only time will tell what will happen here at KCAP. KCAP will get the full size Transit, which is projected to sell 150,00 - 160,00 units a year. With the line speeds at 32 - 34 an hour, that will keep two shifts working 40 hours a week. The 3rd crew will go back to the truck side which will take us back to two shift for trucks and SUV side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcass69 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 KCAP will get the full size Transit, which is projected to sell 150,00 - 160,00 units a year. With the line speeds at 32 - 34 an hour, that will keep two shifts working 40 hours a week. The 3rd crew will go back to the truck side which will take us back to two shift for trucks and SUV side. the numbers you have quoted have been rumored since we heard the Transit was coming to KCAP . Only concern would be rising gas prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffamily Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) KCAP will get the full size Transit, which is projected to sell 150,00 - 160,00 units a year. With the line speeds at 32 - 34 an hour, that will keep two shifts working 40 hours a week. The 3rd crew will go back to the truck side which will take us back to two shift for trucks and SUV side. How many people is it going to take to build 32-34 an hour ? I would guess about 600 people a shift . Those numbers sound like one shift of production with overtime maybe . Edited February 7, 2011 by ffamily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 How many people is it going to take to build 32-34 an hour ? I would guess about 600 people a shift . Those numbers sound like one shift of production with overtime maybe . Yeah you are correct…… Ford and the UAW negotiate to invest $450 million into your plant. Then they only need to employ 600 people to produce vans. Let’s do the math, invest $450 million=return on investments at 1,000 profit per vehicle = 150 years to get back $450 million dollars then they will get the return on the investments. Are you serious????? It amazes me that ANYONE at KCAP would have a PROBLEM with the UAW negotiating investing 450,000,000 dollars into your facility. You people are sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinter Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Yeah you are correct…… Ford and the UAW negotiate to invest $450 million into your plant. Then they only need to employ 600 people to produce vans. Let’s do the math, invest $450 million=return on investments at 1,000 profit per vehicle = 150 years to get back $450 million dollars then they will get the return on the investments. Are you serious????? It amazes me that ANYONE at KCAP would have a PROBLEM with the UAW negotiating investing 450,000,000 dollars into your facility. You people are sick Which Cracker Jack box did your math diploma come out of? Just using the numbers quoted by you and above: $450,000,000 total investment / $1000 per vehicle = $450,000 investment per vehicle $450,000 investment per vehicle / 150,000 vehicles per year = 3 years to cover the investment Do you really think Ford only makes $1000 per vehicle? I don't have any PROBLEM with Ford investing any kind of money into KCAP. And yes I'm serious. Ford intends to make money on what ever comes to KCAP. If they build 150,000 units per year, 3000 per week for 50 weeks, or 600 units per day for a 5 day work week. How do those numbers compare to the escape? What do you think Ford will do? Cut the line speed and employ 2 shifts to fill that number or maybe something else that makes more profit for the company? Or perhaps the 'Louie' option of making 3000 vehicles per year, 60 per week, 12 per day, 1.5 per hour. They ain't going need too many people to put out those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Which Cracker Jack box did your math diploma come out of? Just using the numbers quoted by you and above: $450,000,000 total investment / $1000 per vehicle = $450,000 investment per vehicle $450,000 investment per vehicle / 150,000 vehicles per year = 3 years to cover the investment Do you really think Ford only makes $1000 per vehicle? I don't have any PROBLEM with Ford investing any kind of money into KCAP. And yes I'm serious. Ford intends to make money on what ever comes to KCAP. If they build 150,000 units per year, 3000 per week for 50 weeks, or 600 units per day for a 5 day work week. How do those numbers compare to the escape? What do you think Ford will do? Cut the line speed and employ 2 shifts to fill that number or maybe something else that makes more profit for the company? Or perhaps the 'Louie' option of making 3000 vehicles per year, 60 per week, 12 per day, 1.5 per hour. They ain't going need too many people to put out those numbers. Send that $450,000,000 to AAI, Romeo, Walton Hills, OHAP, Livonia, Lima, Cleveland, Dearborn etc, etc. with a new product. You will hear them thanking Ford and the UAW not cursing the millions as if it’s some pittance. I have never seen such a bunch of cry babies like the ones posting here from KCAP. Grow up and be thankful you have a great future with great product unlike most Americans. Jerk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uawxlt Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Send that $450,000,000 to AAI, Romeo, Walton Hills, OHAP, Livonia, Lima, Cleveland, Dearborn etc, etc. with a new product. You will hear them thanking Ford and the UAW not cursing the millions as if it’s some pittance. I have never seen such a bunch of cry babies like the ones posting here from KCAP. Grow up and be thankful you have a great future with great product unlike most Americans. Jerk 2 Words for you louie Fuck You KCAP is full of a bunch of cry babies that translanted from most of the plants you mention above KCAP has always had good products why because KCAP people built the best now KCAP people are far and few and we are pregnant with whiny ass transplants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinter Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Send that $450,000,000 to AAI, Romeo, Walton Hills, OHAP, Livonia, Lima, Cleveland, Dearborn etc, etc. with a new product. You will hear them thanking Ford and the UAW not cursing the millions as if it’s some pittance. I have never seen such a bunch of cry babies like the ones posting here from KCAP. Grow up and be thankful you have a great future with great product unlike most Americans. Jerk Louie, you don't need to sign your posts as 'Jerk'. Just because you're a little slow is no need to bring attention to your self. Everyone is happy at KCAP that Ford is investing the money HERE. The point I am trying to get across is that I doubt the same numbers of employees will be required to produce the new product as the Escape. Sorry that was above your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Louie, you don't need to sign your posts as 'Jerk'. Just because you're a little slow is no need to bring attention to your self. The point I am trying to get across is that I doubt the same numbers of employees will be required to produce the new product as the Escape. Sorry that was above your head. Oh, I got it………. $450,000,000 is more than most can count. The thing that pisses me off is that your location is lucky to have this investment. The number for employment will increase with a $450,000,000 investment. Pick it apart all you want. Its just shameful to thumb your nose at this huge amount of money, jobs, investment and product. This is a half of a BILLION DOLLARS………… And people are complaining???? People curse when Thailand gets an investment for the Asian market. Then we get ½ of a BILLION DOLLARS invested in just one UAW plant in the USA and you ungratefuls bitch. Im sorry, I was raised different. I would be on here thanking the parties responsible, namely your Local UAW committee who pushed and lobbied the Government to give tax breaks to further increase the size of the monetary investment. You got a windfall most others in UAW Ford are envious of…. You should go to church and thank God for this blessing. For those at KCAP that are thankful and know youre blessed keep up the good work !!!! Edited February 8, 2011 by louie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uawxlt Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Oh, I got it………. $450,000,000 is more than most can count. The thing that pisses me off is that your location is lucky to have this investment. The number for employment will increase with a $450,000,000 investment. Pick it apart all you want. It’s just shameful to thumb your nose at this huge amount of money, jobs, investment and product. This is a half of a BILLION DOLLARS………… And people are complaining???? People curse when Thailand gets an investment for the Asian market. Then we get ½ of a BILLION DOLLARS invested in just one UAW plant in the USA and you ungratefuls bitch. I’m sorry, I was raised different. I would be on here thanking the parties responsible, namely your Local UAW committee who pushed and lobbied the Government to give tax breaks to further increase the size of the monetary investment. You got a windfall most others in UAW Ford are envious of…. You should go to church and thank God for this blessing. For those at KCAP that are thankful and know you’re blessed keep up the good work !!!! Go To Church Religeous nuts are 90% of the worlds problems 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hosh Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Oh, I got it………. $450,000,000 is more than most can count. The thing that pisses me off is that your location is lucky to have this investment. The number for employment will increase with a $450,000,000 investment. Pick it apart all you want. It’s just shameful to thumb your nose at this huge amount of money, jobs, investment and product. This is a half of a BILLION DOLLARS………… And people are complaining???? People curse when Thailand gets an investment for the Asian market. Then we get ½ of a BILLION DOLLARS invested in just one UAW plant in the USA and you ungratefuls bitch. I’m sorry, I was raised different. I would be on here thanking the parties responsible, namely your Local UAW committee who pushed and lobbied the Government to give tax breaks to further increase the size of the monetary investment. You got a windfall most others in UAW Ford are envious of…. You should go to church and thank God for this blessing. For those at KCAP that are thankful and know you’re blessed keep up the good work !!!! God doesn't have anything to do with this. There are a few more things going on in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointy Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 I and MANY others do NOT agree with Sprinter's negative response on here. Like posted on another thread; 99.999% of the people (.001 being sprinter) are very, VERY proud and happy and relieved that Ford made the announcement to invest almost HALF of a BILLION DOLLARS at KCAP!! Not only are the workers GRATEFUL, both Hourly and Salary, but so are the local businesses and governments. Yes Louie, I myself, do truly believe we have been blessed here in Kansas City by the announcement, yes, there are most definitely other things going on in the world but we are still a part of the same world, our issues may not be as big as some BUT.... And I do appreciate all of the hard work done by our workforce, the Union Representatives, the Management here, our local state representatives to get legislation passed so Ford can recieve incentives for the investment here. And my wishes and prayers are for the other plants and locals to recieve the same news we have here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I and MANY others do NOT agree with Sprinter's negative response on here. Like posted on another thread; 99.999% of the people (.001 being sprinter) are very, VERY proud and happy and relieved that Ford made the announcement to invest almost HALF of a BILLION DOLLARS at KCAP!! Not only are the workers GRATEFUL, both Hourly and Salary, but so are the local businesses and governments. Yes Louie, I myself, do truly believe we have been blessed here in Kansas City by the announcement, yes, there are most definitely other things going on in the world but we are still a part of the same world, our issues may not be as big as some BUT.... And I do appreciate all of the hard work done by our workforce, the Union Representatives, the Management here, our local state representatives to get legislation passed so Ford can recieve incentives for the investment here. And my wishes and prayers are for the other plants and locals to recieve the same news we have here. No problem pointy........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Harley Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The investment will wind up far exceeding that amount. I give the plan my "stamp" of approval. :P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The majority of the investment is for the flex body shop right ? Correct me if I am wrong. If I am not , then the company is doing nothing more than what they where obligated to per the 2007 CBA right ? Cheers to KCAP , and ill drink one to hopeing for more investments that get fullfilled come the 2011 CBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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