Tom D Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I have been reading a lot of post on the Ranger, about how it is dying in the US. Mabye the ones from 2012 and on will not be here but there will be plenty still on the road from the 20+ years they have been available. I bought a new on in 1994 and I hated to sell it in 1998 but I had to go to Europe for a number of years. When I came back in 2005 I went out and found a 1994 Ranger with 150,000 miles. I now have almost 200,000 and I plan on keeping it until the wheels fall off. Then I will put new ones on it. I am looking at having the transmission repaired, it's for a good cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Incoming.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemedic3293 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Its a shame the ranger is so small... I have a 2000 ranger XLT with 145k on it. I love it but it is a tad too small for my needs nowaydays. if they made the extended cab slightly bigger to fit real seats in it I probably would have bought a new ranger instead of this beautiful raptor :happy feet: Hopefully they dont die when gas reaches $5 a gal i might have to buy one as a beater lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest liquidleaf Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Agree - I had a 2000 Ranger XLT as well - hated the jump seats. An option for a full seat would have helped so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyeste Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I think the 4 cylinder rangers will be missed, they easily were getting 30 mpg and could haul a reasonable amount of gear. What happened to them I don't know possibly subaru took over this market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I think the 4 cylinder rangers will be missed, they easily were getting 30 mpg and could haul a reasonable amount of gear. What happened to them I don't know possibly subaru took over this market? The EPA rating was 22/27. No way it would hit 30 in normal driving. When fuel prices hit $4 3 years ago, everyone expected sales of small pickups to skyrocket. They did not. Apparently people moved to hybrids and small cars instead of small trucks. The market has spoken whether folks agree with it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 The EPA rating was 22/27. No way it would hit 30 in normal driving. When fuel prices hit $4 3 years ago, everyone expected sales of small pickups to skyrocket. They did not. Apparently people moved to hybrids and small cars instead of small trucks. The market has spoken whether folks agree with it or not. That's because no automaker was building a compelling small truck 3 years ago and still aren't today. The Tacoma and Frontier are the only decent yet somewhat modern small trucks. The Colorado/Canyon is a horrid excuse for a small pickup and the Dakota is big enough you might as well go full sized. The Ranger is a decent little truck, but it's old..old..old.. Heck it still has the '95 Explorer dash in it for goodness sakes! If fuel prices are high enough and an automaker decides to actually build a GOOD small truck that has plenty of cab room and gets excellent fuel economy you bet it will sell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 That's because no automaker was building a compelling small truck 3 years ago and still aren't today. The Tacoma and Frontier are the only decent yet somewhat modern small trucks. The Colorado/Canyon is a horrid excuse for a small pickup and the Dakota is big enough you might as well go full sized. The Ranger is a decent little truck, but it's old..old..old.. Heck it still has the '95 Explorer dash in it for goodness sakes! If fuel prices are high enough and an automaker decides to actually build a GOOD small truck that has plenty of cab room and gets excellent fuel economy you bet it will sell. Nobody makes a compelling small truck? Seriously? Now you're just grasping at straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchTime Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 If the Ranger offered an extended cab or four door version with the room of a Fiesta, I would own one now instead of a '12 Focus and a 20 year old F-150 along with maintenance costs on both of them. I haul a riding lawn mower fifty miles one way to cut my mother's grass. I can only get 15 mpg out of my truck so with gas the way it is, I've been spreading the trips out to once every three weeks or so. A full sized 8' bed is priceless when you need one and I love having it. But, the fact is, I know enough people that I could have three or more to choose from at the drop of a hat . I would love to have something that I could afford to drive to work, haul the trash and the lawn mower in the back when I needed to, and have room for the wife, dog, kid and luggage. It doesn't have to have best in class rear seat room. I'll work with what you give me, just give me a rear seat and some form of a door to get to it! I've said it for years. The Ranger is good for high school kids that want to ride one buddy around at a time and old men that need something to ride around in and get away from the wife. That's exactly what every Ranger owner I know is or was. Personally, I like the '95 Explorer dash. I like the rest of the truck too. It's the fact that you can't get a real back seat and you're stuck with that gas guzzling 4.0 boat anchor if you want something more than a 2 door or 4 cylinder that kills it for me. Ford should have altered the 3.0 Duratec for RWD use long ago and put it in the Ranger. I don't know what the other guy's definition of compelling is but, I would say something that makes you want it and nothing in the lineup does that. I hate GM and the Colorado/Canyon is as ugly us a toad anyway so it's out. The Dodge is hideous and I still don't trust their transmissions. Toyota had me admitting their supremacy in the class for awhile but, they're getting a bit ugly for my liking now and I despise anything with a Z-gate shifter. Nissan...I don't remember the last time I even saw a Frontier. They really still make those things? Either way, they're ugly too. What else is left? A Mitsubishi Raider? The best possible option for me out of those choices would be the Toyota but, I bleed Ford blue and I can't bring myself to do it. If I can't pull the trigger on a Taco, the rest isn't worth trying to think of. His argument may be grasping at straws but, I can grasp enough of them to make a straw broom and sweep all those choices into the trash. And about not getting 30 mpg, that may be true. But, If I can get over 25 mpg average with my current five liter Mustang, and never got worse than 22 running the crap out of my old one, I'd be willing to bet I can pull 30 out of a newer 2.3 or a 2.5 Ranger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Nobody makes a compelling small truck? Seriously? Now you're just grasping at straws. Honestly what's out there that is decent other then the Tacoma or Frontier??? Colorado? Canyon? Dakota? Ranger??? Other then those first two they are seriously outdated or garbage. Build a good small truck that gets excellent fuel economy and if fuel prices go up it will sell very well. Seriously your the one grasping at straws here. Edited July 7, 2011 by 2005Explorer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Nobody makes a compelling small truck? Honestly what's out there that is decent other then the Tacoma or Frontier??? Colorado? Canyon? Dakota? Ranger??? Other then those first two they are seriously outdated or garbage. You just answered your own question - Tacoma and Frontier. If people really wanted small trucks when gas prices went up they could have bought more of those, but they didn't. They bought smaller cars and hybrids. I like the Ranger as much as anyone but the numbers don't lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 You just answered your own question - Tacoma and Frontier. If people really wanted small trucks when gas prices went up they could have bought more of those, but they didn't. They bought smaller cars and hybrids. I like the Ranger as much as anyone but the numbers don't lie. Current compacts and mid-sizes use obsolete technology and get the same or lower MPG's as full-sizes. You don't downsize from a 20mpg F-150 to an 18mpg Frontier/Tacoma if you're trying to save gas. The fact that buyers are currently gobbling up small/mid-size 25mpg SUV's/CUV's means there's definitely a market for 25mpg personal use (quad cab) pickups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Current compacts and mid-sizes use obsolete technology and get the same or lower MPG's as full-sizes. You don't downsize from a 20mpg F-150 to an 18mpg Frontier/Tacoma if you're trying to save gas. The fact that buyers are currently gobbling up small/mid-size 25mpg SUV's/CUV's means there's definitely a market for 25mpg personal use (quad cab) pickups. I agree 100% with what you have said. The only decent compact/mid-sized trucks are the Tacoma and Frontier, but they don't do well on economy. I believe there is a huge hole in the market for a compact with decent interior room and excellent fuel economy. With technology that is currently available like EcoBoost engines and improved aerodynamics there isn't any reason a truck like this can't be built other then putting everyone in an F-150 is more profitable for the company. I know most people disagree either because they don't feel it can be done or that the current F-150's fuel economy and size is acceptable for the vast majority of people, but I think if a compact was built that actually got compact like fuel economy and enough room for 4 average adults they would have no problem selling them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Think of how much investment would be required to make the current Ranger that fuel efficient while also meeting future crash and emission standards - it's still a bespoke platform made in one dedicated plant. And there is no empirical data that says people would buy a significant number of high fuel efficiency Rangers instead of hybrid or small cars and/or crossovers. It would be a huge gamble that may or may not pay off. I'm not saying it's not possible, just that the evidence doesn't make it likely either and it would be a big gamble. I still believe we'll see a fuel efficient small truck either based on the T6 or a slimmed down F-100 but we won't see it for at least 18-24 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Think of how much investment would be required to make the current Ranger that fuel efficient while also meeting future crash and emission standards - it's still a bespoke platform made in one dedicated plant. And there is no empirical data that says people would buy a significant number of high fuel efficiency Rangers instead of hybrid or small cars and/or crossovers. It would be a huge gamble that may or may not pay off. I'm not saying it's not possible, just that the evidence doesn't make it likely either and it would be a big gamble. I still believe we'll see a fuel efficient small truck either based on the T6 or a slimmed down F-100 but we won't see it for at least 18-24 months. I don't think many people want Ford to continue the current Ranger. It is very outdated considering the chassis dates back to 1983, the styling to 1993, the interior to 1995 and the front suspension to 1998. The Ranger is a decent little truck, but I agree the investment would be too much to modernize it enough to make it class leading again. I'm actually surprised it still sells as well as it does. I hope your right about Ford re-entering the small to mid-sized truck market. With the need to meet CAFE requirements and the general rise in fuel prices making a fuel efficient smaller pickup is the right thing to do. Even if gas prices have eased a little bit lately the direction they are going in the future is up. It seems a lot of your assessment is based on your belief that fuel prices will remain steady or drop in the future. No analysts believe that to be the case and most agree fuel will continue to rise in the future. Do you honestly believe if fuel gets into the $5-6 range that Ford will still be selling the F-150 at it's current rate? Of course not and that is why they need to be planning for the future. Small cars and CUVs have done well as fuel prices have risen... why haven't small trucks? Well that is because the few models that are actually fuel sippers have little utility, room or power. I believe Ford can really make a difference in this market if they want to without costing them a fortune. The T6 is a good start along with more efficient power trains. How about an EcoBoost 4 with V6 like power? How about a Hybrid? Government contracts alone would eat up thousands of those. I am in the Guard and we have lots full of Escape Hybrids now being used as NTVs. The GSA is very interested in purchasing fuel efficient vehicles with plenty of utility. It's not if...it's when we start to see fuel become much more expensive that a vehicle like this will become popular. I honestly believe there is a market for a high MPG pickup that is attractive to many different people it's just that no automaker has taken that step except for offering tiny stripper models that don't have enough cab room or enough power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I have to suspect that part of Ford's decision making process has been influenced by what they have seen happening over at Toyota. The Tacoma currently outsells the Tundra and Ford might be worried that they could suffer the same fate if customers had an actual choice. The problem with that logic is that Ford is trying to dictate to the market what they want customers to buy instead of building what customers actually want and need. That might work for a while but it is not a recipe for long term success. That is exactly what got the domestic manufacturers in trouble when they could not respond to changing market demands in the recent past. If the vehicle the customer wants is available elsewhere there is no incentive to buy something from Ford or anyone else that doesn't fit their true needs. You can argue all you want about how great the fuel mileage is on a V-6 F-150 but the fact of the matter is that size does matter to a large percentage of the buying public and that percentage will only increase as gas prices rise, traffic congestion increases, parking becomes less available, etc., etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 It seems a lot of your assessment is based on your belief that fuel prices will remain steady or drop in the future. No analysts believe that to be the case and most agree fuel will continue to rise in the future. Do you honestly believe if fuel gets into the $5-6 range that Ford will still be selling the F-150 at it's current rate? Of course not and that is why they need to be planning for the future. Let's review history. 3 years ago gas hits $4/gallon. F150 sales tank. Overall sales fall from 17M to 11M. Small truck sales don't increase. This summer gas hits $4/gallon again. F150 sales do NOT tank - they improve. Overall sales don't tank either. Why? Because people have already adjusted to higher prices and they are no longer shocked by them. Most of the folks changing vehicles last time was a knee jerk reaction. Now they either know better or they've already adjusted their buying habits to higher fuel prices. Will the same thing happen if gas hits $6? Maybe but I doubt it. I agree they need to plan for the future with a more fuel efficient smaller truck. It's so obvious (if for no other reason than CAFE) that I believe Ford is working on a long term plan that simply hasn't been announced or implemented yet. Just like they worked on more fuel efficient cars the last 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I have to suspect that part of Ford's decision making process has been influenced by what they have seen happening over at Toyota. The Tacoma currently outsells the Tundra and Ford might be worried that they could suffer the same fate if customers had an actual choice. The problem with that logic is that Ford is trying to dictate to the market what they want customers to buy instead of building what customers actually want and need. That might work for a while but it is not a recipe for long term success. That is exactly what got the domestic manufacturers in trouble when they could not respond to changing market demands in the recent past. If the vehicle the customer wants is available elsewhere there is no incentive to buy something from Ford or anyone else that doesn't fit their true needs. You can argue all you want about how great the fuel mileage is on a V-6 F-150 but the fact of the matter is that size does matter to a large percentage of the buying public and that percentage will only increase as gas prices rise, traffic congestion increases, parking becomes less available, etc., etc. It's possible but I think Ford simply got caught with their pants down from a platform standpoint. They opted out of T6 early on, then Mulally and team arrived and decided they couldn't afford to keep or update the old Ranger and the current F150 platform was just too big and heavy. So there wasn't much they could really do other than bite the bullet and wait for a new long term plan. A scaled down and lightened light duty F-100 based on the F-150 platform might be better than T6 and I'm sure that's what they're trying to figure out now. I think they learned their lesson a few years ago and will seek to diversify the lineup everywhere they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Will the same thing happen if gas hits $6? Maybe but I doubt it. You do realize that filling a 36 gallon F-150 tank at $6 a gallon is $216 :o Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Let's review history. 3 years ago gas hits $4/gallon. F150 sales tank. Overall sales fall from 17M to 11M. Small truck sales don't increase. This summer gas hits $4/gallon again. F150 sales do NOT tank - they improve. Overall sales don't tank either. Why? Because people have already adjusted to higher prices and they are no longer shocked by them. Most of the folks changing vehicles last time was a knee jerk reaction. Now they either know better or they've already adjusted their buying habits to higher fuel prices. Will the same thing happen if gas hits $6? Maybe but I doubt it. I agree they need to plan for the future with a more fuel efficient smaller truck. It's so obvious (if for no other reason than CAFE) that I believe Ford is working on a long term plan that simply hasn't been announced or implemented yet. Just like they worked on more fuel efficient cars the last 5 years. F-150 is seeing a temporary sales spike because it was just redesigned and received 4 hot, all new motors. That will peter out after everyone who was holding out for the Ecoboost gets their truck. Another problem is that Ford now has no "starter truck" in their lineup. If you want a "family compatible" (aka, 4 door) pickup from Ford, you're looking at trucks priced well over $30k with high step-up (short women, children, elderly) and so huge they don't fit in the garage. Edited July 7, 2011 by GTwannabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRM Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Couldn't agree more on the lack of suitable smaller trucks potentially skewing their potential market. If you scale down, you want the benefit of improved mileage. You really don't have that option right now. You have to go to the SUV market to see the higher mileage options. I think the first manufacturer to make a quality 4-door truck that has a notable improvement in MPGs will end up with good sales. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Interesting article on compact/mid-size trucks: Midsize-Truck Buyers Must Look To Japan But while Ford is putting marketing and sales muscle behind its new 6-cylinder EcoBoost engine for its F-150 fullsize truck, the company’s Pipas isn’t buying Marie’s argument. “It doesn’t make much difference if fuel prices are $4 or $2.50 – compacts are still just two percent of the market.” If George Pipas really believes that, Ford needs to fire him right now. That kind of corporate short-sightedness has always come back to bite the Big 3 in the behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Interesting article on compact/mid-size trucks: Midsize-Truck Buyers Must Look To Japan If George Pipas really believes that, Ford needs to fire him right now. That kind of corporate short-sightedness has always come back to bite the Big 3 in the behind. You have a point. I remember in the late 90's early 2000's where the Big 3 forgot about their car lines and put everything into SUV's. It did come back to bite them hard years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) You have a point. I remember in the late 90's early 2000's where the Big 3 forgot about their car lines and put everything into SUV's. It did come back to bite them hard years later. Cars back then were well over 60% of the market. Not 2%. The chart is all you really need to know. And it's not like Ford won't have a platform available if needed. They got caught with the cars because they totally dropped the car platform R&D so they basically had to start over with everything except the Mustang. That said, I still think Ford is simply doing PR around the death of the current Ranger and they're not going to announce anything different about that market until a) the new product is almost ready and B) the UAW negotations are finished. Edited July 8, 2011 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I don't know about the rest of the country but all one has to do is take a drive around this part of the world to realize that there is definitely a market for small/midsize trucks. There are Rangers and Sport Tracs everywhere around here. Hell, I can look out my window right now and see three 4x4 Ranger Supercabs in three different driveways across the street and I have a Sport Trac in mine. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Ford has intentionally killed their small truck market by not updating their offerings and finally canceling them when sales dropped. DUH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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