4d4evr-1 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Fuel economy on paper is no better. Hyundia is rated at 30/40 with their autos and 6 speed manuals. 29/ 40 on the Elantra. Plus, you dont have to buy some goofy SFE package to get it or sacrifice mileage with the manual. You can argue real world results all you want but this is what is on the sticker. Two reasons come to mind why Ford used this transmission. Weight and cost. Weight does matter but I betcha Ford is not passing along the savings. They are slipping. How can you keep a straight face and tell a potential customer that shuttering, clicking, grinding and what ever else is normal? Fail is all I can say if this is the way it is. Just keep selling those V8 Silverados and leave the high tech stuff like Eco-boost to Ford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) The discount, blue light, rental car Corolla really was your best buy by far. Enjoy your many boring, Rip Van Winkle like moments in the thing. Seems like you deserve a vehicle like that. Just stay out of the way of the truly fun cars out there and you will be fine. Seriously, a Corolla? Is that what you got? Only people who hate cars buy Corollas! Getting back to the Focus, I think the video does more harm than good because it justifies the experience as normal, which indicates to me that Ford just wants customers to get use to it. I admire Ford's innovation arrogance, but the lack of polish in this one is unreasonable (a'la MFT/MLT) . Edited December 12, 2011 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The discount, blue light, rental car Corolla really was your best buy by far. Enjoy your many boring, Rip Van Winkle like moments in the thing. Seems like you deserve a vehicle like that. Just stay out of the way of the truly fun cars out there and you will be fine. LMAO! The cheap POS blue light special was the Focus that I got rid of. Wake up dude. My 2011 Corolla that had a new price of 17,800 has a higher trade in value than the 2012 Focus that had a new price of 22,300. That tells you everything you need to know about which of these two cars has already been deemed the blue light junky a** crap car by the industry as a whole and it's your Focus. But whatever helps you guys feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 LMAO! The cheap POS blue light special was the Focus that I got rid of. Wake up dude. My 2011 Corolla that had a new price of 17,800 has a higher trade in value than the 2012 Focus that had a new price of 22,300. That tells you everything you need to know about which of these two cars has already been deemed the blue light junky a** crap car by the industry as a whole and it's your Focus. But whatever helps you guys feel better. As long as your happy. You're the one who pays for it. I guess its time to head over to the Toyo board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 LMAO! The cheap POS blue light special was the Focus that I got rid of. Wake up dude. My 2011 Corolla that had a new price of 17,800 has a higher trade in value than the 2012 Focus that had a new price of 22,300. That tells you everything you need to know about which of these two cars has already been deemed the blue light junky a** crap car by the industry as a whole and it's your Focus. But whatever helps you guys feel better. Again, sorry for your bummer with the Focus. The good news is that henceforth, for you, the only irritation will be looking at all those blue light junky a** crap cars as you drive. Somehow, you will cope, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpatrick90 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 LMAO! The cheap POS blue light special was the Focus that I got rid of. Wake up dude. My 2011 Corolla that had a new price of 17,800 has a higher trade in value than the 2012 Focus that had a new price of 22,300. That tells you everything you need to know about which of these two cars has already been deemed the blue light junky a** crap car by the industry as a whole and it's your Focus. But whatever helps you guys feel better. I don't know the Focus has been fairly well received actually, I mean it won countless comparisons and was bestowed a 10Best Award. I mean I understand your Focus had problems and no one denies that but the fact that you would rather take a huge hit financially rather than take time to go to another dealership and have them actually fix it removes any of your credibility. Further removing your credibility is that you bought a Corolla as the replacement. I mean I could still have a modicum of respect for you if you had replaced it with just about any other compact, but a Corolla, really? I would take a Forte or Jetta above a Corolla even and that says a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss444 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Fuel economy on paper is no better. Hyundia is rated at 30/40 with their autos and 6 speed manuals. 29/ 40 on the Elantra. Plus, you dont have to buy some goofy SFE package to get it or sacrifice mileage with the manual. You can argue real world results all you want but this is what is on the sticker. Two reasons come to mind why Ford used this transmission. Weight and cost. Weight does matter but I betcha Ford is not passing along the savings. They are slipping. How can you keep a straight face and tell a potential customer that shuttering, clicking, grinding and what ever else is normal? Fail is all I can say if this is the way it is. Good point about Hyundai. And I don't buy the fuel economy claims about Powershift. Looking at www.fueleconomy.gov, all Focus models (NOT SFE) are within 1 MPG of each other (manual only has 5 gears mind you). And the SFE only gains 2 MPG over the non-SFE models. Even the Fiesta has a 1 MPG difference between Powershift and the manual (5-speed no less). Seems like the benefits of Powershift are just not there. It's a good option to skip. That being said though, I drove my friend's Gofl GTi with the 2.0 and the DSG gearbox and that DSG is a JEM. What a fantastic transmission. Ford should study it. I would imagine there is more of a difference than just the clutches (wet vs dry) but of not, ditch the dry clutches and put wet ones in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 LMAO! The cheap POS blue light special was the Focus that I got rid of. Wake up dude. My 2011 Corolla that had a new price of 17,800 has a higher trade in value than the 2012 Focus that had a new price of 22,300. That tells you everything you need to know about which of these two cars has already been deemed the blue light junky a** crap car by the industry as a whole and it's your Focus. But whatever helps you guys feel better. I remember that a few years ago you gave me a hard time for going on and on about how much I hated Hyundai due to a bad ownership experience. Et tu Brute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpatrick90 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Good point about Hyundai. And I don't buy the fuel economy claims about Powershift. Looking at www.fueleconomy.gov, all Focus models (NOT SFE) are within 1 MPG of each other (manual only has 5 gears mind you). And the SFE only gains 2 MPG over the non-SFE models. Even the Fiesta has a 1 MPG difference between Powershift and the manual (5-speed no less). Seems like the benefits of Powershift are just not there. It's a good option to skip. That being said though, I drove my friend's Gofl GTi with the 2.0 and the DSG gearbox and that DSG is a JEM. What a fantastic transmission. Ford should study it. I would imagine there is more of a difference than just the clutches (wet vs dry) but of not, ditch the dry clutches and put wet ones in. If you take a quick at these links Elantra vs Focus you will notice the Focus is getting better real world mileage than the Elantra with a larger more powerful motor. Edited December 13, 2011 by stpatrick90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss444 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) If you take a quick at these links Elantra vs Focus you will notice the Focus is getting better real world mileage than the Elantra with a larger more powerful motor. It shouldn't be discounted...but I prefer to use scientific numbers rather than unscientific. There are too many unknown variables with the "real-world" numbers to take them with anything more than a grain of salt. Edited December 13, 2011 by Boss444 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpatrick90 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) It shouldn't be discounted...but I prefer to use scientific numbers rather than unscientific. There are too many unknown variables with the "real-world" numbers to take them with anything more than a grain of salt. I know this will probably mean nothing to you but for the rest of us these results show the Focus is at the forefront of its class in terms of mpg despite what the EPA might say. Insideline Focus 33.2 best, 24.2 worst, 27 average (over 717 miles) Elantra 31.1 best, 20.2 worst, 23.6 average mpg (over 762 miles) MT Cruze 23.8 avg Focus 27.9 avg Civic 29.4 avg Elantra 25.7 avg Forte 23.9 avg 3 27.8 avg Corolla 27.6 avg Jetta TDI 32.3 avg Edited December 13, 2011 by stpatrick90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I also think this transmission represents a risk to Ford, and also represents one of those areas where FoE's old "if it's good enough for us, it certainly better than you need" mentality is showing. In North America, with excellent, reliable automatic transmissions from Japan and the U.S. and some good RWD boxes from ZF in Europe, customers are in the position of absolutely not caring about the transmission. Or even noticing it, particularly as the number of speeds has increased and calibrations have become more sophisticated. They don't have to be told about the transmission by the manufacturer or dealer except in a few instances where there might be a marketing benefit -- "8-speeds" "CVT" etc. They certainly don't have to be told that they're going to get some vibration, and that "it's normal." Because they don't expect any vibration, clattering, clicks, or whirrs and when they experience them, they think something is wrong with the core mechanicals of the vehicle. They are reminded every day they drive the car. And when you have doubts about the mechanical core of your vehicle and its reliability, then you become less satisfied with the vehicle as a whole and start looking for problems with resulting lower overall satisfaction and reliability reporting. I think on paper Mazda's solution is much better with a small torque converter to get things going smoothly. But Ford determined it was "oh so much better" to cast its fate with FoE and Getrag than to involve Mazda in the future. BTW, I would be very interested to know what the reaction is in Europe to the Powershift, both in Ford and Peugeot applications. I suspect much less harsh. The Torque converter is still less efficient than a DCT. If ford wanted to fix the issue at the Expense of reliability they would simply allow for more clutch wear. only time will tell if they made the right decision, I have driven numerous power shift cars and they all seem fine to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 customers are in the position of absolutely not caring about the transmission. Or even noticing it This. I hope the Powershift joins the CVT in the 'Blue Oval Book of Bad Transmission Ideas.' You just do not tell American consumers 'you need to adapt' because in this, the most competitive of marketplaces, someone else is going to eat your lunch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 This. I hope the Powershift joins the CVT in the 'Blue Oval Book of Bad Transmission Ideas.' You just do not tell American consumers 'you need to adapt' because in this, the most competitive of marketplaces, someone else is going to eat your lunch. Strange thing is that there' hasn't been a peep of trouble with the wet clutch version, something screwy must be up with the dry clutch powershift and 1.6/2.0 NA combo. IMO, 6F35 auto and 6-speed manual trans would do the trick in NA versions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Strange thing is that there' hasn't been a peep of trouble with the wet clutch version, something screwy must be up with the dry clutch powershift and 1.6/2.0 NA combo. IMO, 6F35 auto and 6-speed manual trans would do the trick in NA versions.... I should amend my earlier remarks. The Powershift may be a credible replacement for manual transmissions, but not automatics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Strange thing is that there' hasn't been a peep of trouble with the wet clutch version, something screwy must be up with the dry clutch powershift and 1.6/2.0 NA combo. IMO, 6F35 auto and 6-speed manual trans would do the trick in NA versions.... That's the thing, who has the wet clutch version? I would love to have both in back to back driving plus the Mazda version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I should amend my earlier remarks. The Powershift may be a credible replacement for manual transmissions, but not automatics. Reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 This. I hope the Powershift joins the CVT in the 'Blue Oval Book of Bad Transmission Ideas.' You just do not tell American consumers 'you need to adapt' because in this, the most competitive of marketplaces, someone else is going to eat your lunch. And I'll add it to my "American consumers are idiots" book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) That's the thing, who has the wet clutch version? I would love to have both in back to back driving plus the Mazda version. FOE Diesel and Ecoboost engines get Wet clutch Powershift..... If Ford made 1.6 EB universal instead of using pockets of 2.0 DI, this wouldn't be happening... Edited December 13, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The EPA data is interesting.. A Corolla with a 4-speed auto has a 27.6 MPG avg.. I suppose now we see why Toyota has not made any updates to the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Strange thing is that there' hasn't been a peep of trouble with the wet clutch version, something screwy must be up with the dry clutch powershift and 1.6/2.0 NA combo. IMO, 6F35 auto and 6-speed manual trans would do the trick in NA versions.... Nothing screwy, just the nature of dry clutches. The smoothness of wet clutch dual clutch transmissions is due to the slip in the clutches during transitions, and the more favorable relationship of static to dynamic characteristics. With dry clutches you want to limit slip in transitions to extend lining life. Wet clutches can tolerate slip without shortening lining life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 LMAO! The cheap POS blue light special was the Focus that I got rid of. Wake up dude. My 2011 Corolla that had a new price of 17,800 has a higher trade in value than the 2012 Focus that had a new price of 22,300. That tells you everything you need to know about which of these two cars has already been deemed the blue light junky a** crap car by the industry as a whole and it's your Focus. But whatever helps you guys feel better. Do you bother to read compact comparo tests at all? Or better yet, did you go out and test drive about 10 compacts or so? I can think of at least 10 compacts that are light years better than the dated, boring Corolla. You must be a masochist to pick a Corolla of all the compacts you could have had. And then to come on here and brag about it. Jeeeesh. And give it up on telling us the supposed resale value of your Focus. They stole it from you. I don't know the resale value of the Focus (it hasn't been out for many months yet), but I can guarantee it's way more than half its original value being not even a year old yet. You are an example of what not to when buying a new car. You lost your shirt no matter what you say and Toyota dealership cleaned up on you with new, much better Focus as trade-in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think a lot of it has to do with software and/or manufacturing tolerances. As I reported before my daughter's new 2012 Focus has no shudder at all, even at low speeds. And that's with 120 miles on the odo. I think in another year or so there won't be any complaints about the dry clutch DCT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I should amend my earlier remarks. The Powershift may be a credible replacement for manual transmissions, but not automatics. We keep focusing on the Focus when discussing the merits of DCT, but how about the Fiesta with same trans combo. Has the Powershift hurt Fiesta sales? I would agree though, if the consumer resists, DCT is probably better as manual replacement than conventional auto. I guess first we have to establish case for consumer resisting DCT. Evidence? So far reasons for Focus below sales expectation is lack of supply, price, not enough incentives, competition from Escape and Fusion, and so on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think www.truedelta.com/ and Consumer Reports have shown that the DCT had a lot of issues in the Fiesta and the Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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