bobbyd Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I am a retired salary Ford worker who just finished applying for my 2012 medical coverage. As all retirees under 65 have learned, our medical coverage had an incredible increase. After the FAIR alliance questioned Ford about the increase, the answer was basically that times are tough and competition even tougher for the company. HERE IS MY QUESTION: IS IT TRUE THAT FORD RETIRED MANAGERS STILL ARE ALLOWED TO USE THE LEASE CAR PROGRAM ENTITLEMENT? I ask that since if everything is so tough at Ford, why are these retired managers being allowed a perk like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I don't know if the program still exists but... It's a perk of the management position. If it something that other companies offer to Management than Ford will offer similar perks in order to retain management "talent". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Yes LL5 and above. I think at LL3 or 2 they just give you a car every 6 months, plus they can "lease" 2 more. Yes, I am talking retirees. (I know a few.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I don't know if the program still exists but... It's a perk of the management position. If it something that other companies offer to Management than Ford will offer similar perks in order to retain management "talent". And the cost is figured into their overall compensation. It's probably worth at most probably $5K/yr since the company can write it off as a business expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Sounds unfair to me. New lease car every year, unlimited mileage, allowing all family members or friends to use this car with free car insurance for the rest of their lives as retirees. A reward? Recall the fact that these "compensated retirees" were in charge as the company recorded record losses and was on the brink of collapse until Mulally arrived and CLEANED HOUSE. So Ford rewards the same management team with this Golden Parachute....while still in $15 billion debt.??? Its a tough pill to swallow for the regular salary retiree who just saw his health care coverage almost increase by 100%. And the cost is figured into their overall compensation. It's probably worth at most probably $5K/yr since the company can write it off as a business expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Sounds unfair to me. New lease car every year, unlimited mileage, allowing all family members or friends to use this car with free car insurance for the rest of their lives as retirees. A reward? Recall the fact that these "compensated retirees" were in charge as the company recorded record losses and was on the brink of collapse until Mulally arrived and CLEANED HOUSE. So Ford rewards the same management team with this Golden Parachute....while still in $15 billion debt.??? Its a tough pill to swallow for the regular salary retiree who just saw his health care coverage almost increase by 100%. If their incremental lease went away, do you think your health care coverage would be more affordable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Sounds unfair to me. New lease car every year, unlimited mileage, allowing all family members or friends to use this car with free car insurance for the rest of their lives as retirees. A reward? Recall the fact that these "compensated retirees" were in charge as the company recorded record losses and was on the brink of collapse until Mulally arrived and CLEANED HOUSE. So Ford rewards the same management team with this Golden Parachute....while still in $15 billion debt.??? Its a tough pill to swallow for the regular salary retiree who just saw his health care coverage almost increase by 100%. Without that perk their retiree pension amount would just be higher. It's a package deal worth X amount - it doesn't matter how the dollars are distributed. I also disagree with golden parachutes for executives who run their business into the ground but that's really a separate issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Sounds unfair to me. New lease car every year, unlimited mileage, allowing all family members or friends to use this car with free car insurance for the rest of their lives as retirees. A reward? Recall the fact that these "compensated retirees" were in charge as the company recorded record losses and was on the brink of collapse until Mulally arrived and CLEANED HOUSE. So Ford rewards the same management team with this Golden Parachute....while still in $15 billion debt.??? Its a tough pill to swallow for the regular salary retiree who just saw his health care coverage almost increase by 100%. Once a Ford salaried retiree hits 65, Ford doesn't pay for their health care anymore. They get an allowance to go purchase Medgap insurance on their own, but that is it. Now I don't know about upper management. And MI now taxes pensions over $20,000 unless you were born before 1946, and for many that is pretty big hit including me. Retirees in this state took appeal all the way to MI Supreme Court, but lost. Ironic, get a Republican governor, and our taxes go up significantly. This all takes effect tax year 2012. Baby Boomers get hammered by state of MI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Sounds unfair to me. New lease car every year, unlimited mileage, allowing all family members or friends to use this car with free car insurance for the rest of their lives as retirees. A reward? Recall the fact that these "compensated retirees" were in charge as the company recorded record losses and was on the brink of collapse until Mulally arrived and CLEANED HOUSE. So Ford rewards the same management team with this Golden Parachute....while still in $15 billion debt.??? Its a tough pill to swallow for the regular salary retiree who just saw his health care coverage almost increase by 100%. When my Mom died November 7, 2005, I receieved a letter from Ford Motor later that month stating that they wanted my Mom's Ford pension check for November back pronto. No condolences about her death, only give us the dang money back NOW. I took my sweet time and let them send out their dunning notices for awhile. Didn't like their attitude at all. Ironic that perks to the uppers doesn't bother Ford at all, but a small pension check to an 89 year old woman who died early in the month got them all impatient and outright cruel. They didn't even prorate it, but wanted it all back. And it was survivor's pension since it was really my Dad's pension from 1980 retirement, it wasn't much after Ford took money out for her medical. Ford needs to get hold of its computer and teach it sympathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 You can always spot those respondents who are on the lease program with their opposition. The short answer is trying to dig Ford out of debt. The estimated "INCREMENTAL" $20 million that Ford spends on the management LEASE FOR LIFE benefit may not solve our debt, but it would help. If our position was not $15 billion in debt, I would be less concerned, but the facts are there is a war going on...against the economy and all those other competitors attacking our profits.Please refer to the Ford World Magazine where Ford asks retirees for suggestions on how to reduce costs. Every little bit counts! If their incremental lease went away, do you think your health care coverage would be more affordable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Just a comment about the statement that management pensions will be higher if not given the Lease For Life benefit. Why do you think they were given the perk? Do you think that Ford was trying to keep them as managers/executives? Of course not, but instead they wanted them out. What does that suggest about their performance and position they had.? They were NOT needed anymore. FYI to all viewers who did NOT work at Ford under the Jac Nasser regime. Ford had an explosion of wasteful spending...including a huge appointment of new management levels created..that were never removed. In our department it was a ratio of 3-4 workers per supervisor. Ford was top Heavy...across the board. As we all know, Jac was probably the worse leader in Ford's 100 yrs. Ford grew progressively worse since then, until Mulally arrived. Ford had to reduce the huge flock of unnecessary leaders. In 2007 the reorganization commenced, 30% retired and Ford began to recover. So, in closing it does matter how the dollars are distributed and allowing a retiree, who initially was part of the over staffing problem, a LIFETIME LEASE CAR BENEFIT. It is not in anyway a bottom line asset. Please review the compensations for the majority of any Fortune 500 companies and you will not find compensations similar to this program that lasts more than a year or so. Ford has allowed this as a LIFETIME BENEFIT. Remember, this perk is in addition to the hefty retiree pensions they also received. (OK, I'm ready for those LB's to attack...hit me with your best shot) Without that perk their retiree pension amount would just be higher. It's a package deal worth X amount - it doesn't matter how the dollars are distributed. I also disagree with golden parachutes for executives who run their business into the ground but that's really a separate issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 OK...lets assume a low number of 5,000 retirees on Lifetime Lease, multiplied by your supposed $5K per year. I come up with $25 million a yr. Don't you think that can be better spent rather than a supposed business expense? To me, this ides of LIFETIME LEASE was proposed by the exact same group who knew they were getting kicked out. And the cost is figured into their overall compensation. It's probably worth at most probably $5K/yr since the company can write it off as a business expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Ford stopped with salary pension program in 2001. I don't know if the program still exists but... It's a perk of the management position. If it something that other companies offer to Management than Ford will offer similar perks in order to retain management "talent". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 OK...lets assume a low number of 5,000 retirees on Lifetime Lease, ... Obviously you don't understand the Ford Management Levels ! The number of "executive" level management that qualify is probably between 500-1,000. Certainly well less than 2,500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Now don't be so sarcastic...you are pretty close with your numbers of EXECUTIVE LEVELS.....but lets also help you understand In ADDITION to executive levels we must include 'supervisors' and 'managers'. GS9 levels and up get the lease cars. Most executive levels often qualify for at least '2' lease cars. Key word is LIFETIME!!!! Nobody deserves that....other than Alan Mulally. Obviously you don't understand the Ford Management Levels ! The number of "executive" level management that qualify is probably between 500-1,000. Certainly well less than 2,500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Now don't be so sarcastic...you are pretty close with your numbers of EXECUTIVE LEVELS.....but lets also help you understand In ADDITION to executive levels we must include 'supervisors' and 'managers'. GS9 levels and up get the lease cars. Most executive levels often qualify for at least '2' lease cars. Key word is LIFETIME!!!! Nobody deserves that....other than Alan Mulally. The retiree lease program is not the same as the program for active employees. While the program for active employees starts at LL6 and adds a second car at LL5, the retiree program begins at LL4 and above, so it is much more limited than you imply. There is really only one retiree benefit that has a legal obligation and that's the defined benefit pension program for those employees who are covered by this plan. All other plans and benefits can be modified or eliminated. Moderator, at this point why not move this to the employee forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Moderator, at this point why not move this to the employee forum? Because there are people commenting in this thread that are non-employees. Of course, that has never stopped akirby from posting in that section, so I guess that is not a good enough excuse. Carry on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Ford was top Heavy...across the board. Still is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Because there are people commenting in this thread that are non-employees. Of course, that has never stopped akirby from posting in that section, so I guess that is not a good enough excuse. Carry on. I have never posted anything in the employee section on purpose. And when I do I delete my post and apologize. It's very easy to do when the topic is a general topic about Ford or Ford vehicles and not employee specific and you use the View New Posts feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scode1 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) The Lessee's "pay" for these lease cars and it does include unlimited mileage and insurance and in some cases at a discount when it is a new vehicle launch, but it is considered an evaluation program. Sometimes they get the early builds that the company would not the public to get due to quality concerns that have to be retro-fitted and so on. Not everyone gets lease cars "forever". If the Executive was high enough up when they retired they may only get one instead of 2 while they were working. Remember it is their company's product that they are evaluating and letting their friends drive which hopefully brings new sales to Ford. I know someone that is in the loop regarding the Management Lease Program and Ford Motor Company actually turns a profit on the program. Edited November 22, 2011 by scode1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/48072-could-someone-help-explain-the-purchase-plans-to-me/page__pid__746078&do=findComment&comment=746078 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/48072-could-someone-help-explain-the-purchase-plans-to-me/page__pid__746078&do=findComment&comment=746078 I did not realize that was the employee forum. And nobody in that entire thread was an employee as far as I can tell. Try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyd Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 OK..I started this battle mostly based on the potential of cost savings for the company. Its clearly evident this respondent is not on the same page as myself. Its like Republicans vs Democrats. One side wants to save and one side wants to spend. I can understand why he defends the LIFETIME LEASE PROGRAM. ITS A GREAT PERK for doing NOTHING! The retiree lease program is not the same as the program for active employees. While the program for active employees starts at LL6 and adds a second car at LL5, the retiree program begins at LL4 and above, so it is much more limited than you imply. There is really only one retiree benefit that has a legal obligation and that's the defined benefit pension program for those employees who are covered by this plan. All other plans and benefits can be modified or eliminated. Moderator, at this point why not move this to the employee forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 OK..I started this battle mostly based on the potential of cost savings for the company. Its clearly evident this respondent is not on the same page as myself. Its like Republicans vs Democrats. One side wants to save and one side wants to spend. I can understand why he defends the LIFETIME LEASE PROGRAM. ITS A GREAT PERK for doing NOTHING! The lease program you are describing does not start at GSR9 (LL6). It starts at LL4 and there is a monthly charge based on the vehicle and options. E rollers get the vehicle at no charge, and some VPs and up get a 2nd car. LL5-LL6 can get incremental lease cars while employed by Ford, but again for a fee, and they lose this benefit at retirement. Lease cars for retirees are a benefit to both the company and the retiree. I'm not sure there is any cost savings for the retirees who are paying the monthly fees. And the benefit in keeping someone like Alan Mulally in a Ford after he retirees is probably worth the press. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I did not realize that was the employee forum. And nobody in that entire thread was an employee as far as I can tell. Try again. Pleading ignorance doesn't help, it just shows that you are either stupid or lazy. The forum section you are in is clearly on the top of the page, all you would have to do is check before you post. But since the rules are never enforced around here, carry on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.