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2008 Focus Sedan Shots


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Oh yeah...there's no market for hatchbacks...

 

Mazda3

Mazda6

Matrix

Aerio

Aveo

xA

xB

Mini Cooper

HHR

PT Cruiser

Caliber

 

I'm sure there are plenty I'm missing.

 

The Focus hatch is the ONLY model I'd consider if I was in the market. I shopped the Mazda3 before settling on the Mazda6 HATCHBACK. I didn't even look at the Mazda3 sedan. I skipped the Focus altogether. I may have looked if it was better looking, but wouldn't have bothered if there was no hatch version.

 

congrats on listing the various hatchback models produced. however, how many of those cars do you actually see on the road? where i live, the only hatchbacki see on a regular basis is the pt cruiser and hhr (and both of those usually have enterprise rental car stickers on them). the mini cooper is a rarity as is all the rest. i dont even see mazda 6 sedans around here, let alone hatchback versions.

 

also, this is just an observation since earlier people were talking about the camry, but is it just me, or does the front of the camry sorta look like the front of the mazda 6 sedan? personally i like the mazda 6 better then the camry, better than the fusion/milan/zephyr variants as well, just looks cleaner.

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I hate FWD as a concept, it is just wrong, but for a CHEAP, commuter car there aren't many choices.

So I was forced to live with my dislike to acheive my goal.....it happens

 

I bought a 2005 Focus ST as a throwawy commuter car and I'm pleasantly surprised at it's handling and power, (2.3L) 5 spd only.

I have the Moonroof, traction control, Sony Audiophile 6 disc CD, PW, PL, CC, heated suede & leather seats, tilt & telescope wheel, fold down split rear seats, 4 wheel disc brakes, and a combination of ST170 & SVT Focus suspension.

 

The transaction price was as follows:

MSRP : $20,490

Rebate : $2,500

X-Plan cost out the door, incl TTT was $18,207

I looked at a new Civic SI, and for $23,000 with dealer adjustment, didn't see the benefit.

I preferred the VW GLI, but at $9K more than the Focus...not happening, that defeat the CHEAP part of my goal.

Regular Civic was only half as well equipped compared to the Focus ST, and cost as much or more...

 

The greenhouse you car experts are whining about, looks fine for a car at this level, and allows my 6'3" son to actually fit in the back.

Oddly this was a requirement of mine, carry 4 people on occasion.......

 

Would I like it different, or better designed, I guess so, but it is fine this way for what I intended it to do...

 

I added a Steeda Cold Air Kit and a SCT Excalibrator 2 93 octane re-tune and tuinted the windows Med Dark.

I changed to Mobil 1 and a K&N oil filter and that is the extent of changes at this point...

 

I will change the springs to lower it 1 1/2 ", and I am doiing an H&R 22mm front bar and a Steeda 26mm or 28mm, (I forget which it is right now), for the autocross events we do sometimes.

 

I drive 100 miles/day RT to KSC and have been getting 26-32, depending on whether I stay near the limit or run 85-100 when I can, performance is several levels above stock with SCT and I have had no mechanical issues in the 9350 miles since Feb 06.....

I parked it for 3 weeks following my shoulder surgery and it started and ran flawlessly when I again began driving it.

 

This a 3rd car for us and I actually like it a lot more than I thought I would overall.

 

The point is sometimes you get more for your $$ than you expected, this is that time for me.

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This whole "GOOD ENOUGH" attitude is putting Ford OUT OF BUSINESS.

 

The civic and corolla go through redesigns evcery 5 years except hardly ever they are delayed a few month and pushes it into the next model year.

 

And Look the civic is pretty much sold out and the corolla topped 40k units a month.

 

But people defend half ass redesigns because god forbid ford becomes compitetive..............

 

Last i checked the products that are new are selling above expectations: Fusion, F-150 and mustang while the products the put half as effort into are constantly losing sales every year: Focus, Escape, Explorer, Crown Vic, Expedition, ranger.

 

But still people have this good enough attitude and all it gets ford is more red ink and lower sales.

Edited by DCK
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This whole "GOOD ENOUGH" attitude is putting Ford OUT OF BUSINESS.

If you want to talk about a 'good enough' attitude, you apparently feel that pointing at lower Explorer sales is 'good enough' to prove that the sheetmetal changes were not sufficient.

 

I don't accept that. You may consider me deliberately obtuse, but I just don't see a connection.

 

If your assertion is that new sheetmetal is required to prevent a loss of market share and sales volume, than it should follow that ALL midsize SUVs that did not revise their sheetmetal from last year to this should have a lower share of the market.

 

However, we note that the Pathfinder and 4Runner both have increased market share.

 

Therefore, asserting that new skin is necessary to gain market share cannot be supported by observable facts.

 

Moreover, it should follow that replacing all sheetmetal should show a sustained increase in sales volume (or at least a less dramatic drop off). The new Dodge Durango sold 70304 units the first 6 months of 2004. In the first 6 months of 2006, the Durango sold 38871 units. Durango sales are down 44% from the new model launch. Explorer sales from the first 6 months of 2004 were 168,059. Adjusting out 30k units of ST volume, we get 138,059 Explorer sales the first 6 months of 2004. For the first 6 months of 2006, we see 85,642 Explorer SUVs. This is a decline of 38%. This shows that the initial spike in Durango sales due to the new model launch proved to be unsustainable. Numbers fell off even more dramatically than the Explorer. Compare that to the "control" Trailblazer which went from 2004 to 2006 largely unchanged. Trailblazer sales in the first half of 2004 were 122,832. Trailblazer sales in the first half of 2006 were 92,012.

 

Sales of the unchanged Trailblazer fell only 25% during the same period that Durango sales fell 44% (after an total redesign) and Explorer sales fell 37% (after a 'good enough' redesign).

 

You will need to do a lot of work to convince me that failure to change the doors and roof of the Explorer is solely, or even primarily responsible for its present performance in the market.

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I agree with the statements on the Explorer to a degree-no vehicle touting it's "all new" features and capabilities makes much of a case when the profile-the same onje that was fairly conservative in 2002-is essentially unchanged.

 

The Explorer styling team blew the call, as did whoever finally signed off on it.

 

I'm very pleased with the truck's new power, interior, rigidity, and all the upgrades. I had the pleasure of driving a pair of 2006 models a while back, and I'd gladly accept the slightly odd door handle placement for how good the vehicles felt. However-the chrome on the nose isn't echoed enough anywhere else to make it a real theme, and the sheetmetal looked dated despite being brand new.

 

Fuel prices and trends are hurting the Explorer-but so is its appearance.

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Back to the Focus...

 

We have a 2001, it really bugged my wife when we sold it to my son and she still wants another one. She has a 2005 Escape with everything except heated seats and she still misses that Focus.

 

I like the fact that the Focus has a greenhouse look and I don't want a mini Fusion. Design the Fision to be a mini exec car and the Focus to be a fun all around car. I agree that if they keep their distictive lloks they can create a high performance car to give every things else a run for its money and it will have it's own crowd, not stealing sales from anyother Ford. If you make it a look alike people will want the Fusion to have the higher HP and such, as if they don't already, and they will want to leave the Focus to die on the vine.

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If you want to talk about a 'good enough' attitude, you apparently feel that pointing at lower Explorer sales is 'good enough' to prove that the sheetmetal changes were not sufficient.

 

I don't accept that. You may consider me deliberately obtuse, but I just don't see a connection.

 

If your assertion is that new sheetmetal is required to prevent a loss of market share and sales volume, than it should follow that ALL midsize SUVs that did not revise their sheetmetal from last year to this should have a lower share of the market.

 

However, we note that the Pathfinder and 4Runner both have increased market share.

 

Therefore, asserting that new skin is necessary to gain market share cannot be supported by observable facts.

 

Moreover, it should follow that replacing all sheetmetal should show a sustained increase in sales volume (or at least a less dramatic drop off). The new Dodge Durango sold 70304 units the first 6 months of 2004. In the first 6 months of 2006, the Durango sold 38871 units. Durango sales are down 44% from the new model launch. Explorer sales from the first 6 months of 2004 were 168,059. Adjusting out 30k units of ST volume, we get 138,059 Explorer sales the first 6 months of 2004. For the first 6 months of 2006, we see 85,642 Explorer SUVs. This is a decline of 38%. This shows that the initial spike in Durango sales due to the new model launch proved to be unsustainable. Numbers fell off even more dramatically than the Explorer. Compare that to the "control" Trailblazer which went from 2004 to 2006 largely unchanged. Trailblazer sales in the first half of 2004 were 122,832. Trailblazer sales in the first half of 2006 were 92,012.

 

Sales of the unchanged Trailblazer fell only 25% during the same period that Durango sales fell 44% (after an total redesign) and Explorer sales fell 37% (after a 'good enough' redesign).

 

You will need to do a lot of work to convince me that failure to change the doors and roof of the Explorer is solely, or even primarily responsible for its present performance in the market.

I don't get you, why don't we then keep a vehicle on the lot for 300 years with minimal exterior changes, i mean ford isn't too far off. Do you think the ranger would have gone from selling 450k + a year to a measely 75k if ford gave it a fresh design? Do you think the civic, corolla and cobalt would be selling as good as they did if they looked like they did in 1998? Do you think the rav-4 would have doubled in sales this year if they left the exterior alone in the redesign? How about the tahoes? If they just got lazy with what ford is doing with the expedtion do you think they would be doing as good as they are? Do you think the lexus IS would sale 1000% higher if they left the greenhouse the same? How about the impala selling 85% better in june then the previous year if GM left the green house the same? Oh wait lets look at the mustang, maybe if ford just redid the front and rear lets see if sales would have increased? If Hyundai left the sonata green house alone will they be seeing the success? ............................................What don't you get? Ford has done these lazy redesigns all during the 90's and look it where they are? It is proven leaving the green house alone will not generate sales success.

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the truth is C170 is still the best FWD platform out there ... regardeless of what you compare it to. Even the C1 is not as good - it is too large - too bulky, too heavy compared to C170 and provides no real advantage over the C170 - it simply happens to carry better cars, but not due to the platform....

 

the Focus needs a serious help - and wil be moved to c2 I will bet $5 over Paypal on this - but C170 is simply a magnificient platform that could easilly suport vehicles for another 20 years - there is absolutely nothing wrong with it - Cobalt, Corolla, Spectra Civic cannot even dream about touching the stiffness and handlingof this platform - the MkV Golf platform is the oly one that gets a little cloe - but still no turkey.

 

Regarding the greenhouse discussion - the c-pillar is fully coverred - this is never donw unless the Greenhouse is changed.

 

Igor

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What don't you get? Ford has done these lazy redesigns all during the 90's and look it where they are? It is proven leaving the green house alone will not generate sales success.

 

Lazy redesigns in the 90's? 1995 to 1996 Taurus? 1994 Tempo to 1995 Contour? 1996 F-Series to 1997 F-Series? 1991 Crown Vic to 1992 Crown Vic? 1993 Mustang to 1994 Mustang Those are just a few examples where the replacement looked NOTHING like the previous model. The Taurus did not do too hot, the Contour was a failure, the F-Series did well, the Crown Vic did ok after they fixed the front and rear a little bit. The Mustang did well. I don't see how all of those were lazy redesigns. The 1995 Explorer would classify as a lazy redesign and people went completely bonkers for it. So who knows what makes people love something and hate something else.

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I don't get you, why don't we then keep a vehicle on the lot for 300 years with minimal exterior changes

Gee. I don't recall saying that sheetmetal had NOTHING to do with vehicle sales. I simply told you that you cannot establish a direct and irrefutable relationship between vehicle redesigns and sales volume.

Edited by RichardJensen
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Do you think the rav-4 would have doubled in sales this year if they left the exterior alone in the redesign? How about the tahoes? If they just got lazy with what ford is doing with the expedtion do you think they would be doing as good as they are? Do you think the lexus IS would sale 1000% higher if they left the greenhouse the same? How about the impala selling 85% better in june then the previous year if GM left the green house the same? Oh wait lets look at the mustang, maybe if ford just redid the front and rear lets see if sales would have increased? If Hyundai left the sonata green house alone will they be seeing the success? ............................................What don't you get? Ford has done these lazy redesigns all during the 90's and look it where they are? It is proven leaving the green house alone will not generate sales success.

 

Huh?

 

The Rav-4 had an anemic engine, the Tahoe came with an interior from Fisher-Price (and the greenhouse isn't all that different either), the IS was nothing more than a Toyota with a Lexus badge on it, the new Impala was named Fleet Car of the year, the Sonata was: equipped with an outdated engine, 4 spd transmission, and ho-hum styling.

 

 

As I've said before. I'd much rather Ford pay close attention to the interior (dash, NVH, seating), engines (fuel economy), transmission (5 speed auto), and exterior styling vs. pissing money away on a greenhouse that most people probably won't notice.

Edited by Michael Reynolds
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Huh?

 

The Rav-4 had an anemic engine, the Tahoe came with an interior from Fisher-Price (and the greenhouse isn't all that different either), the IS was nothing more than a Toyota with a Lexus badge on it, the new Impala was named Fleet Car of the year, the Sonata was: equipped with an outdated engine, 4 spd transmission, and ho-hum styling.

As I've said before. I'd much rather Ford pay close attention to the interior (dash, NVH, seating), engines (fuel economy), transmission (5 speed auto), and exterior styling vs. pissing money away on a greenhouse that most people probably won't notice.

Because making a car look modern is pissing away money.

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congrats on listing the various hatchback models produced. however, how many of those cars do you actually see on the road? where i live, the only hatchbacki see on a regular basis is the pt cruiser and hhr (and both of those usually have enterprise rental car stickers on them). the mini cooper is a rarity as is all the rest. i dont even see mazda 6 sedans around here, let alone hatchback versions.

 

Then you live in a strange market. I see all the cars I mentioned regularly and I OWN a Mazda6 hatchback. Hatches are VERY popular in these parts. I see Focus 3- and 5-doors FAR more often than the sedans and wagons.

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they will lose volume I guarantee it. there is NOTHING apealing about this vehicle. Do you think ford will dump money in this car to actually make it, competitive? to do that would require.... C1. a new archtechture. but we will waste 100s of millions of dollars developing a new variant on an lame duck platfrom??????

 

Face it, Up until 6 months to a year ago Ford didn't have a clue as to what to do with the Focus and we are stuck with what choices they made till 2010, when hopefully the new C2 will come to this market.

 

The VAST majority who buy Focus are because they are CHEAP and they can't afford anything else, or they want a Ford Product with good gas mileage. I agree that there isn't anything appealing about this, but its what Ford has to work with till 2010 or so. There's nothing you or I can do to change this and just have to accept it. In no shape or form, the Focus isn't a inspirational car to buy.

 

you owned a Focus hatchback, There is a Huge market for compact Hatches, you really don't get it

 

Yes I did and the primary reason why I got a hatchback was because the SVT name was on it, not because it was a hatchback body style

 

There is a market for Hatches, but not as "car" type hatch. Most "cars" that sell well as a hatchback are marketed not as a car, but as a CUV or SUV type vehicle. I dont see GM offering a hatchback Cobalt, but they do offer a hatchback in the form of the HHR, which sells at a higer MSRP then the Cobalt. I think Ford is missing out in that market. Most cars on the previous list are at best niche models or make up a small proportion of their overall sales, much like the Focus.

 

Another thing, if the hatchback market was so hot, why doesn't the new Civic or any of the Japanese small cars offer a hatchback model?

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That is your philosophy appearantly.

 

Nope that's where you are misinterpreting what I was trying to convey. Had you asked, there would've been no need to go back and forth.

 

Bottom line:

 

The wrapping has not come off of the Focus, and until it does how can you or anyone else criticque the greenhouse of a car that for the most part can not been seen.

 

Would I like to see a fresh redesign? Yes, but there are so many things that can improve the current Focus as is, which is why I've pointed out areas such as interior quality, NVH, fuel efficency, and seating. Those are the things that most consumers will pay attention to, not a freshened greenhouse with the same tired things that irked them before.

 

Yes, Ford needs to get on the ball with the Focus. It went from one of the best small vehicles out there to what it is today.

 

On a side note. What amuses me about some of the people around here is that they bitch and moan about why this, that, and the other has not been done when Ford is treading water big time. It would be nice to see an all new Focus, new powertrains here and there, but those things cost money and when they are done right they cost upwards of a billion dollars +. Therefor, when I defend actions I do it under the understanding that resources are very tight, but I will call out the f'ed up crap that happens in Dearborn as well.

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"The VAST majority who buy Focus are because they are CHEAP and they can't afford anything else, or they want a Ford Product with good gas mileage. I agree that there isn't anything appealing about this, but its what Ford has to work with till 2010 or so. There's nothing you or I can do to change this and just have to accept it. In no shape or form, the Focus isn't a inspirational car to buy. "

 

 

I totally agree, someone who posts here endlessly complaining about "No C1 20,000$ Focus" needs to get a fR@($*@()* life!

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"The VAST majority who buy Focus are because they are CHEAP and they can't afford anything else, or they want a Ford Product with good gas mileage. I agree that there isn't anything appealing about this, but its what Ford has to work with till 2010 or so. There's nothing you or I can do to change this and just have to accept it. In no shape or form, the Focus isn't a inspirational car to buy. "

I totally agree, someone who posts here endlessly complaining about "No C1 20,000$ Focus" needs to get a fR@($*@()* life!

 

 

We are looking at getting a Pontiac Vibe or a Toyota Matrix next summer/fall. I would consider a Focus ZX-5 or ZXW if the price savings justified dealing with an unattractive interior, the lower gas mileage, and it was enough to let me overlook the fact Ford is run by clueless PC dilberts.

 

However, if they are dropping the hatch and station wagon, the Focus is off the list, though I would still look at the Spectra 5 or Elantra hatch (which is going away as well, so scratch that)

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Another thing, if the hatchback market was so hot, why doesn't the new Civic or any of the Japanese small cars offer a hatchback model?

 

I guess the Mazda3, Matrix, Aerio, or none of the Scions count? :doh:

 

And there's word about that Honda may start selling the hatch variant of the Civic here again too.

 

It's not the entire compact car market, no, but it's certainly a large enough part of it that Ford would be foolish to abandon the ZX3 and ZX5. They are amongst the most common hatchbacks I see!

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I guess the Mazda3, Matrix, Aerio, or none of the Scions count? :doh:

 

Well I'll take the kick in the ass over the Mazda3 (looks too much like an Station wagon to me), but the Matrix falls into the crossover segment like the HHR and PT Crusier and the Aerio and Scions are B-cars.

 

The point is that offering a coupe over a hatchback for the Focus won't mean that the Focus sales will drop 24% automatically, just because they dont offer a hatchback. I haven't met one person says...oh I only buy hatchbacks, since most of them would be hardpressed to tell you what one is.

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Well I'll take the kick in the ass over the Mazda3 (looks too much like an Station wagon to me), but the Matrix falls into the crossover segment like the HHR and PT Crusier and the Aerio and Scions are B-cars.

 

The point is that offering a coupe over a hatchback for the Focus won't mean that the Focus sales will drop 24% automatically, just because they dont offer a hatchback. I haven't met one person says...oh I only buy hatchbacks, since most of them would be hardpressed to tell you what one is.

 

Well, meet someone who would consider a Focus hatchback, but not a Focus sedan...ever. They simply don't look right at all. I also MUCH prefer the Mazda3 5-door over the sedan. The extra versatility offered by a hatch while maintaining a small, economical package is only going to become MORE popular as gas priced continue to rise and people are looking for more function from small cars.

 

And the Matrix is hardly a crossover. It's a Corolla with a back tacked on to it. The only difference mechanically is optional AWD. Toyota even includes it in Corolla sales.

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And the Matrix is hardly a crossover. It's a Corolla with a back tacked on to it. The only difference mechanically is optional AWD. Toyota even includes it in Corolla sales.

 

 

Its the same as the PT Cruise (neon platform) and the HHR (Colbot) is...and its pure BS that Matrix is counted as a Corolla.

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