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And what's your basis for thinking that Fiat & GM will be able to do better?

 

Well, GM did spend 5 years and $2 billion developing the new Colorado for a global market. Then there are the little details like the fact that it will ride on Dana AdvanTEK axles and might be offered with the baby Duramax.

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Exactly when did the F-150 become a work truck? We bought our first one in the mid-80's for the simple purpose of hauling a 4,000 pound boat around on the weekends. And camping in the back. It was a 5.0 EFI with manual tranny. Did everything we asked for a long time without much complaint to nearly 200,000 miles. And got about 15 mpg doing it no matter how we drove it or what we hauled at high altitude. Back then, it was an exceptional half-ton truck.

 

In my mind, the F-150 is still a personal use truck, maybe mostly for the weekender. Not the one trying to haul an 8,000 pound camping trailer, but someone doing simple weekend tasks. Then play time too - the boat, jet skis, small camping trailer - whatever, but we don't need or want a 3/4 ton truck for these things. And, it needs to fit in a regular house's garage without people trying to find every spare inch or modify their garage to fit it. It needs to be a decent commuting vehicle and able to fit in tight parking spaces. Without finding ways to back in or taking up two of them.

 

This is what the F-150 used to be. Won't be going there again until it returns to those roots, if ever. As far as no market for the T-6 - well, the truck market has a tendency to follow Ford. With no replacement for the Ranger even rumored for a few years now and no updates for about forever, the mid-sized trucks have not had much development. Except the Frontier - based on a smaller, fully boxed frame of the Titan with a nicely upgraded V-6 engine- and still offering a good manual tranny.

 

Will still probably be waiting on Ford to make some kind of move in the right direction. But not forever. Need to learn more about the competition and intend to do so for the first time since the early 80's.

 

 

 

The current F-150 is too big for its intended purpose from years back. Maybe it has a new intended purpose. It just won't be my purpose.

 

F150 first became a work truck when it was introduced back in 1975. Had to wikiepedia that, I was only 6 at the time. I think it's more likely that the "personal use truck" is a more recent phenomenon. Mind you, I lived in farm country, so personal use/work could overlap significantly back in the day. Not being a product of the suburbs, I can only guess that there weren't nearly as many "personal use trucks" in the subdivision 30-40 years ago as there are today. Still rememeber people looking down on 6' beds as not being that useful. Rubber mats, roll up windows, no AC, metal dashes, three on tree. Fun times.

 

Personal use trucks in my mind really took off in the mid-late 80's, Growing up, I saw very few trucks that didn't have a completely scratched (gouged) up bed after a few years from work use. Now, it's almost rare to see a standard, bare bones work truck. Most "work trucks" seem to be second-hand upmarket trucks, much like mine is (2000 F150 that I leave parked 90% of the time). People searching for a personal use/weekend truck are really better served in the used market.

 

Never owned a Ranger, think I've ridden in one once, so I can't say I'll miss it. I have done considerable seat time in small toyota's and nissan's though, so I can see why some will miss them. However, all this commiserating over the dead Ranger leaves me confused. On one hand, the people buying the top of the line Ranger, can ease themselves into an F150, if not new, the slightly used, for similar money. The low end stripper model buyer can just hang on to theirs longer, go to another manf. or buy used (if they actually need a truck). I can understand the size issue, since I drive mine so little, I can't seem to get totally comfortable parking in some spots. IMHO, trucks parked in the garage waste garage space (unless it's a classic). I just don't get all the angst over the dead Ranger.

 

In my mind, Ford has bigger things to worry about than the Ranger.

 

1. Fix Lincoln

2. Continue on the path with their cars.

3 Get the SUV/CUV thing right

4. Keep on improving/upgrading F-series

 

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....

.....

 

5. When everything is humming along, if they can find room for the T-6 or whatever it is at the time, and if it is profitable, bring back the small truck.

They'll lose a few customers, but they really arent in the business of counting customers. As a shareholder, I would rather they count profits.

Edited by esevans
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Well, GM did spend 5 years and $2 billion developing the new Colorado for a global market. Then there are the little details like the fact that it will ride on Dana AdvanTEK axles and might be offered with the baby Duramax.

How does 5 years & $2B assure success? They spent a considerable amount on the last Colorado

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F150 first became a work truck when it was introduced back in 1975. Had to wikiepedia that, I was only 6 at the time. I think it's more likely that the "personal use truck" is a more recent phenomenon. Mind you, I lived in farm country, so personal use/work could overlap significantly back in the day. Not being a product of the suburbs, I can only guess that there weren't nearly as many "personal use trucks" in the subdivision 30-40 years ago as there are today. Still rememeber people looking down on 6' beds as not being that useful. Rubber mats, roll up windows, no AC, metal dashes, three on tree. Fun times.

 

Personal use trucks in my mind really took off in the mid-late 80's, Growing up, I saw very few trucks that didn't have a completely scratched (gouged) up bed after a few years from work use. Now, it's almost rare to see a standard, bare bones work truck. Most "work trucks" seem to be second-hand upmarket trucks, much like mine is (2000 F150 that I leave parked 90% of the time). People searching for a personal use/weekend truck are really better served in the used market.

 

Never owned a Ranger, think I've ridden in one once, so I can't say I'll miss it. I have done considerable seat time in small toyota's and nissan's though, so I can see why some will miss them. However, all this commiserating over the dead Ranger leaves me confused. On one hand, the people buying the top of the line Ranger, can ease themselves into an F150, if not new, the slightly used, for similar money. The low end stripper model buyer can just hang on to theirs longer, go to another manf. or buy used (if they actually need a truck). I can understand the size issue, since I drive mine so little, I can't seem to get totally comfortable parking in some spots. IMHO, trucks parked in the garage waste garage space (unless it's a classic). I just don't get all the angst over the dead Ranger.

 

In my mind, Ford has bigger things to worry about than the Ranger.

 

1. Fix Lincoln

2. Continue on the path with their cars.

3 Get the SUV/CUV thing right

4. Keep on improving/upgrading F-series

 

.

....

.....

 

5. When everything is humming along, if they can find room for the T-6 or whatever it is at the time, and if it is profitable, bring back the small truck.

They'll lose a few customers, but they really arent in the business of counting customers. As a shareholder, I would rather they count profits.

 

 

To me Ford is about trucks. The cars are secondary although they seem to be more important now. Leaving such a big hole in the truck line up makes no sense when there are others out there ready and eager to fill it. That is a loss of customers. Like I said before, in my case, not only will I check out the Frontier but also the Titan.

 

Might not have ever even thought seriously about driving a Titan, if the F-150 was more suitable to our needs and the T-6 was in the stable.

 

We'll see. Maybe Ford can cut their truck line successfully and make it up with cars and cross-overs, many of which based on the same architecture. I think they are giving a back seat to a long standing and very loyal customer base in doing so.

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Seriously, what has changed at GM to make you think they've got a chance of succeeding where they failed 8 years ago, in a segment that Ford has decided isn't worth playing in.

 

GM can build good stuff when they want to (see recent success with Buick and Cadillac). Technologically, the new Colorado will make GM's full-size line look as dated as the 2011 F-150 did the 2011 Ranger. Unless GM buyers simply stop buying GM trucks, it will be hard for the Colorado to fail.

 

Also, what segments Ford plays in often don't make much sense. Flex sales are 70% lower than predicted, but Ford stubbornly refuses to kill it off a product nobody wants.

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GM can build good stuff when they want to (see recent success with Buick and Cadillac). Technologically, the new Colorado will make GM's full-size line look as dated as the 2011 F-150 did the 2011 Ranger. Unless GM buyers simply stop buying GM trucks, it will be hard for the Colorado to fail.

That's the first time I've heard GM and hard to fail in the one sentence.

 

 

Also, what segments Ford plays in often don't make much sense. Flex sales are 70% lower than predicted, but Ford stubbornly refuses to kill it off a product nobody wants.

Their money, their choice because after all, they weren't the ones that went bankrupt, remember?

And for the record, over 27,000 people bought Flex last year bringing revenue exceeding $800 million.

 

But seriously, Flex and MKT should make way for LWB Explorer EL and its Lincoln Aviator version .

Grand S-Max could be used to replace Flex and would probably draw heaps more buyers as well.

Edited by jpd80
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Just for those that think an F150 is the same price as a Ranger... Go compare what it takes to get into a F150 today... First off my needs are: (1) 4WD is required to support my mountain adventures, (2) CrewCab as my family comitements means I need a sedan like interior space.

 

Ranger - Lets say a $3000 increase over the SuperCrew XLT w/ Limited Slip Axle - $29,360

F150 - CrewCab XLT w/ Limited Slip Axle - $39,340

 

Yep almost $10,000 more for the F150... Little shocking... And for note the F150 is only available with the 5.0V8, and while I could get the EcoBoost the price would jump over $40,000. And that is before I touch the inside options. Hell our Mounaineer has about everything you can get on it an it was priced around $39,000. And this doesn't begin to talk about how I would need to park this very expensive machine outside. And did I mention that I live in an area of the country with a fairly regular history of hail... My house doesn't have the orginal roof because of a hail storm.

 

So lets get this strait... Some of us wanting a Ranger are saying so because that vehicle fits our needs... Its not nestalgia driving my desires, but practical needs... So lets stop with the BS on why I don't need a truck and a Fiesta will suit my needs. To suggest otherwise is personally insulting... I ain't no urban cowboy wanting a truck for image... I am very logical about my buying habits and image has little to do with the intial cutdown... Once I have a handful of options than I admit image (style really) does play a role.

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To me Ford is about trucks. The cars are secondary although they seem to be more important now. Leaving such a big hole in the truck line up makes no sense when there are others out there ready and eager to fill it. That is a loss of customers. Like I said before, in my case, not only will I check out the Frontier but also the Titan.

 

Might not have ever even thought seriously about driving a Titan, if the F-150 was more suitable to our needs and the T-6 was in the stable.

 

We'll see. Maybe Ford can cut their truck line successfully and make it up with cars and cross-overs, many of which based on the same architecture. I think they are giving a back seat to a long standing and very loyal customer base in doing so.

 

That's what they said about the Panthers, too, but that sure hasn't hurt market share or the bank account.

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So lets get this strait... Some of us wanting a Ranger are saying so because that vehicle fits our needs... Its not nestalgia driving my desires, but practical needs... So lets stop with the BS on why I don't need a truck and a Fiesta will suit my needs. To suggest otherwise is personally insulting... I ain't no urban cowboy wanting a truck for image... I am very logical about my buying habits and image has little to do with the intial cutdown...

 

Nobody is implying that there isn't a market for small trucks or that everyone who bought Rangers in the past are moving to cars or F150s.

 

Market share tells the story and don't bring up that crap about the market being so small because nobody builds a small pickup worth buying. The current small trucks are good enough that if buyers really wanted them they'd be buying them.

 

1.5M plus full sized trucks vs. 200K small trucks. When gas prices went up and full sized truck sales tanked, small pickup sales did not increase.

 

Ford has to prioritize where they spend their limited resources and given the market sizes and trends it would be foolish of them to put Ranger high on the list right now.

 

The good news is T6 is available should the market or business case or resource issue change.

 

Griping about it and trying to rationalize it won't help.

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To me Ford is about trucks. The cars are secondary although they seem to be more important now. Leaving such a big hole in the truck line up makes no sense when there are others out there ready and eager to fill it.

To Ford, Ford has been about producing vehicles for profit starting with the Model T car in 1908.

 

Problem is, it's NOT a big hole in the truck line up, it's a Ranger-size hole, and that market isn't big enough to justify spending the couple of hundred million dollars to tool up to build the T-6 in North America to sell maybe 40,000 T-6's a year. If the hole were bigger, it would be here already.

 

Enjoy your new Frontier/Titan/Colorado. They're decent trucks, and you can wait to see what the next F-150 looks like. :)

 

 

 

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The sad part is that this quote could have come straight from Derrick Kuzak's mouth which should be enough to raise a few eyebrows.

 

I guess BMW and Mercedes and Porsche are doomed because they don't sell pickups or minivans.

 

Why do you people think that Ford MUST build a vehicle in EVERY segment? They're probably MAKING money by shutting down Ranger production altogether.

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I guess BMW and Mercedes and Porsche are doomed because they don't sell pickups or minivans.

 

Why do you people think that Ford MUST build a vehicle in EVERY segment? They're probably MAKING money by shutting down Ranger production altogether.

 

 

If the new 2015 F-150 is to be 500-700 pounds lighter than present one, then I wouldn't be surprised to see an I4EB in it as option, and there is in essence your mid sized pickup ready to do battle in new CAFE standards market. I also hear that the 2013 Chevy Silverado will have 8 speed auto, so you know Ford's pickups will follow even though Ford is mum on question. So I fully expect the next F-150 to be a 24-27mpg vehicle in future.

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Just for those that think an F150 is the same price as a Ranger... Go compare what it takes to get into a F150 today... First off my needs are: (1) 4WD is required to support my mountain adventures, (2) CrewCab as my family comitements means I need a sedan like interior space.

 

Ranger - Lets say a $3000 increase over the SuperCrew XLT w/ Limited Slip Axle - $29,360

F150 - CrewCab XLT w/ Limited Slip Axle - $39,340

 

Yep almost $10,000 more for the F150... Little shocking... And for note the F150 is only available with the 5.0V8, and while I could get the EcoBoost the price would jump over $40,000. And that is before I touch the inside options. Hell our Mounaineer has about everything you can get on it an it was priced around $39,000. And this doesn't begin to talk about how I would need to park this very expensive machine outside. And did I mention that I live in an area of the country with a fairly regular history of hail... My house doesn't have the orginal roof because of a hail storm.

 

So lets get this strait... Some of us wanting a Ranger are saying so because that vehicle fits our needs... Its not nestalgia driving my desires, but practical needs... So lets stop with the BS on why I don't need a truck and a Fiesta will suit my needs. To suggest otherwise is personally insulting... I ain't no urban cowboy wanting a truck for image... I am very logical about my buying habits and image has little to do with the intial cutdown... Once I have a handful of options than I admit image (style really) does play a role.

 

Australian pricing for Ranger XLT Double Cab: Drive away price° from $57,711.......LINK

Rule of thumb: Aussie pricing = US price +50%, therefore an I-5 diesel XLT Double Cab in USA would be $38,000 but that's without additional Bluetec after treatment needed to meet US Emissions. Possibly the US could fit a 3.7 V6 and get the price down to $34K but probably not much below that.

 

Could this be a possible reason why Ford didn't buy into T6 in 2006, the cost/price structure didn't suit the market?

Edited by jpd80
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That's what they said about the Panthers, too, but that sure hasn't hurt market share or the bank account.

 

Well to be fair the Panthers were replaced by the Taurus/MKS. The Ranger has been dropped without a replacement. I'm not saying that Ford should or shouldn't be offering a small or midsize truck, just saying that Ford didn't exit the full size sedan market when the Panthers were dropped.

 

It's fine to exit markets like Ford has with small trucks and minivans, however some might say that they have put too much into CUV market with too much overlap. I'm not sure that is the case, but with the Escape moving upmarket more into Edge territory and the Flex and Explorer sharing showroom space some could argue that some of that development money could have been better spent bringing a new small truck to market in North America.

 

I'm not saying that Ford is wrong, however putting all your eggs into one basket is always a risk if the market conditions change. I'm sure a few potential Ranger customers (if they have enough money) will gladly move up into an F-150. The rest will simply go to Toyota, Nissan or GM. As long as your not a Ford loyalist you will always be able to find a decent small or midsize truck in the U.S.

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The Ranger has been dropped without a replacement.

 

Yet. We don't really know what Ford has planned for U.S. small trucks in the future. It may or may not include T6. Regardless, they're not going to tip their hand even if they have something in the works.

 

some might say that they have put too much into CUV market with too much overlap. I'm not sure that is the case, but with the Escape moving upmarket more into Edge territory and the Flex and Explorer sharing showroom space some could argue that some of that development money could have been better spent bringing a new small truck to market in North America.

 

I'm not saying that Ford is wrong, however putting all your eggs into one basket is always a risk if the market conditions change.

 

Again you're assuming that they're not working on something just because it hasn't been announced and that's a terrible assumption. We didn't know there was going to be a Fusion plug-in-hybrid until it was announced last week.

 

Besides - T6 is readily available if market conditions change. But I think they'll have something even better by then.

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Yet. We don't really know what Ford has planned for U.S. small trucks in the future. It may or may not include T6. Regardless, they're not going to tip their hand even if they have something in the works.

 

Besides - T6 is readily available if market conditions change. But I think they'll have something even better by then.

 

Your right it is very possible they will re-enter at some point, but I can also understand why Ranger and small truck fans in general are upset. Unlike the minivan market, Ford used to "own" the small truck market. 15-20 years ago no one even came close in the U.S. to the Ranger and I think some people feel like Ford just let the market slip away. True the small truck market shrank a lot over the years, but if Ford still commanded the same marketshare percentage in small trucks today as they did back then they could easily be moving 10,000+ Rangers a month. Toyota does it today with a fairly uninspiring product. They have ended up as the small truck leader pretty much through default, not because they have a great product. It's a sad situation, but it is what it is.

Edited by 2005Explorer
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