Bored of Pisteon Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I'm not surprised. It ain't fun to change spark plugs on any vehicle these days, and I wouldn't consider changing plugs a 'tuneup' anymore either. Calling a plug change a tuneup hearkens back to the good old days when gas stations sold fan belts, tires and batteries because none of those things lasted longer than a year. I guess I'll keep my 20 year old F-150 with the straight 6 for now. :shades: But this doesn't surprise me. I had a 98 F-150 bought new that developed spark plug issues back in 2000. That's one of the reasons I got rid of it. And that had only 41,000 miles on it at the time. Same motor (5.4L Triton) also. But to pay $400-600 at a dealership? Are you kidding? I think I'll stick with the old school. And if I do have to buy a newer truck. I'll make sure it won't have one of those motors in it! Even if I have to buy a used one. I'd rather have a 4.6L in it if I can find one. At least I know those motors will last!!! Edited February 21, 2012 by Bored of Pisteon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I guess I'll keep my 20 year old F-150 with the straight 6 for now. :shades: But this doesn't surprise me. I had a 98 F-150 bought new that developed spark plug issues back in 2000. That's one of the reasons I got rid of it. And that had only 41,000 miles on it at the time. Same motor (5.4L Triton) also. But to pay $400-600 at a dealership? Are you kidding? I think I'll stick with the old school. And if I do have to buy a newer truck. I'll make sure it won't have one of those motors in it! Even if I have to buy a used one. I'd rather have a 4.6L in it if I can find one. At least I know those motors will last!!! The early 4.6 V8 and 6.8 V10 with the 3V heads used the same two piece plugs as the early 3V 5.4. If you are talking F-150 only then it might be true that the early 3V 5.4 is the only one to watch out for since I don't think the F-150 used the 3V 4.6 until after the head redesign. But if you are considering V8 Explorers, Mountaineers and Sport Tracs or a V10 Super Duty or Econoline from 2007 to mid 2008 you will probably have the same two piece plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 For all of the above reasons, this is why I don't buy new cars. My newest car is 25 years old! I can fix it myself, cheap! Also, my insurance and property taxes are almost non-existent! If you like blowing money, buy a new car every 5 years and make the monthly payment, pay the insurance premiums and property taxes. But not THIS kid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 For all of the above reasons, this is why I don't buy new cars. My newest car is 25 years old! I can fix it myself, cheap! Also, my insurance and property taxes are almost non-existent! If you like blowing money, buy a new car every 5 years and make the monthly payment, pay the insurance premiums and property taxes. But not THIS kid! Thats all fine and good, but some of us have longer commutes to work or have to drive 100+ miles to visit friends and family...I know I wouldn't want to be taking that chance with a car with 150K+ miles that's 25 years old.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Like I stated "I think Champion makes them". Sorry, it wasn't Champion, it's Autolite who makes the plugs for Motorcraft. I've heard horror stories from fellow 3V 5.4L owners who have installed Champion plugs though. It is a one piece design, but that is the only benefit they have. Otherwise they've complained of poor spark and fouling up easy. And um yeah, I know of the issue, I know of the tools (they've had a few different tools over the past few years released) and TSB and so forth. Have followed this issue for a few years. Supposedly this only impacts 3V 5.4L F150's made prior to November 2007. Yeah, Champion released an "improved" single piece spark plug to replace the Motorcraft/Autolite OEM's and prevent breakage. Just another case of shoddy engineering and Ford bean-counters selecting substandard parts to save $0.90 per vehicle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 This is old news. The problem has been known for years and the remedies and tools are available at reasonable cost., Why we're still talking about this issuel after the cure was made available eight years ago is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) BTW, when I asked a local dealer service dept about doing a plug change they also recommended changing the plug boots at the same time. Not sure if they were just trying to sell more parts but I have read that the boots can also be an issue. The internal spring/electrode can stretch or even break when removing them. Yup. Some dealers recommended and included the price of replacing the boots along with the plugs. Was typically about $150-$200 more if you included the boots. And if I do have to buy a newer truck. I'll make sure it won't have one of those motors in it! Even if I have to buy a used one. I'd rather have a 4.6L in it if I can find one. At least I know those motors will last!!! I've had two good 5.4L's so far. A 2002 2V 5.4L, which were notorious for spitting plugs, but I never experienced the issue. And my current 2006 3V5.4L has been flawless so far. Of course I haven't changed my plugs yet (13 miles under 43K on the beast as of today). But for those who have the 3V 5.4L made between 2004 to select 2008 models, simply change the plugs early and prior to them getting seized up and you'll be fine. Too late now for many, since you'll rarely find a low miles F150 from 2004-2008 anymore. Thats all fine and good, but some of us have longer commutes to work or have to drive 100+ miles to visit friends and family...I know I wouldn't want to be taking that chance with a car with 150K+ miles that's 25 years old.... Depends on how well of up keep is kept on that 25+ year old car IMHO. We had a '62 Impala in the late 80's/early 90's that I would never hesitate to make a long trip with. Now the '76 Datsun B210 we owned at the same time, now that car I wasn't nearly as confident with. Edited February 24, 2012 by V8-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Real truck engines don't need spark plugs..:reading: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The last 3v 5.4 we did ended up breaking 7 of the 8 plugs. We ended up pulling the heads so that we could make sure to get all the crap out of the cylinders. A tune up took a whole weekend. I know Ford has released special tools and parts for this job, but the whole issue is totally inexcusable. The auto industry has been successfully making spark plugs that are easy to change for more than a century. Ford has no excuse here, they screwed up and there should be a class action lawsuit, or least free spark plug changes for as long as each truck is on the road. I'll be carefully inspecting the spark plug design on any new Ford I buy. There is no reason to have this problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Real truck engines don't need spark plugs..:reading: I would like to introduce you to my new Freightliner M112. It's 9.8L Westport CNG engine does indeed have 6 spark plugs. Diesel is dead, we just have not scheduled the funeral quite yet. But it is coming....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 For all of the above reasons, this is why I don't buy new cars. My newest car is 25 years old! I can fix it myself, cheap! Also, my insurance and property taxes are almost non-existent! If you like blowing money, buy a new car every 5 years and make the monthly payment, pay the insurance premiums and property taxes. But not THIS kid! Pop the hood of a modern vehicle and first thing you see is giant, plastic shroud covering the entire engine bay basically warning the weekend pudderer not to mess with me, but take it to local dealer charging $120/hour labor. Of course modern vehicles need much less maintenance than they used to, but when they do, watch your wallet. Just changing a battery on many modern vehicles means resetting codes. Or I love how you when your keyless remote needs a battery, often times it will still not work and needs to be reprogrammed at dealer for $100 fee. All in all though, modern cars are much easier to live with, but can still be a pain in some ways as in discouraging the DIY owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 giant, plastic shroud covering the entire engine bay basically warning the weekend pudderer not to mess with me, but take it to local dealer charging $120/hour labor. It's there for sound deadening and looks, not to discourage DiYers. Just changing a battery on many modern vehicles means resetting codes. That's funny - I've changed 3 batteries and never had to reset a code. Or I love how you when your keyless remote needs a battery, often times it will still not work and needs to be reprogrammed at dealer for $100 fee. Only if you don't know how to read the owner's manual. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheri/ck Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 This is old news. The problem has been known for years and the remedies and tools are available at reasonable cost., Why we're still talking about this issuel after the cure was made available eight years ago is beyond me. Guess the question would be what do you consider reasonable cost? Yes the dealers are dealing with this latest Ford problem with mod engines. Just when we thought we were safe beyond the blowing out plug problem due to so few threads in the head. The cure made available eight years ago? I guess that was inventing a tool that might could drill into a broken plug and maybe eventually turn it out without harming the threads of the head. Hence, the $1,000 spark plug exchange. Can't blame some of us for saying Ford did start to learn of this problem early on - probably 2003.5 model year of the latest, greatest 5.4 They did not choose to redesign the heads until sometime in the 2008 model year. Can you tell me why some of us are a little disappointed here? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) The cure made available eight years ago? I guess that was inventing a tool that might could drill into a broken plug and maybe eventually turn it out without harming the threads of the head. Hence, the $1,000 spark plug exchange. It's not hard, I've done the job for friend' on his 5.4 3V, loosened the plugs a fraction and applied some penetrating oil for about an hour and then wiggled them back and forward. One plug broke so we went and bought the tool. Now my friend has it on the shelf for the next time if he ever needs it again.. Yes, it's a pain in the ass but we found it was a good way to split a couple of six packs.. Edited February 25, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I would like to introduce you to my new Freightliner M112. It's 9.8L Westport CNG engine does indeed have 6 spark plugs. Diesel is dead, we just have not scheduled the funeral quite yet. But it is coming....... Yesterday.. I bought some CLNE stock... I hope you are right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Guess the question would be what do you consider reasonable cost? Yes the dealers are dealing with this latest Ford problem with mod engines. Just when we thought we were safe beyond the blowing out plug problem due to so few threads in the head. The cure made available eight years ago? I guess that was inventing a tool that might could drill into a broken plug and maybe eventually turn it out without harming the threads of the head. Hence, the $1,000 spark plug exchange. Can't blame some of us for saying Ford did start to learn of this problem early on - probably 2003.5 model year of the latest, greatest 5.4 They did not choose to redesign the heads until sometime in the 2008 model year. Can you tell me why some of us are a little disappointed here? I totally agree but I am not a little disappointed I am just plain pissed at the poor design and as usual ford offers no help, will be doing some shopping around next time :happy feet: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) This is old news. The problem has been known for years and the remedies and tools are available at reasonable cost., Why we're still talking about this issuel after the cure was made available eight years ago is beyond me. In case you haven't noticed some of us still own vehicles with this wonderful design meaning we will be dealing with this "issue" for a little while longer. Since Ford in their infinite wisdom has decided not to offer what I would consider a reasonable replacement for my particular vehicle I will probably be dealing with it longer than most. :shades: Edited February 27, 2012 by blksn8k2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheri/ck Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 In case you haven't noticed some of us still own vehicles with this wonderful design meaning we will be dealing with this "issue" for a little while longer. Since Ford in their infinite wisdom has decided not to offer what I would consider a reasonable replacement for my particular vehicle I will probably be dealing with it longer than most. :shades: Yes, old news. We'll just deal with it too considering the new vehicle options. Never a good solution attempted by Ford for the owners of these engines. The 2008-2010 V-8 motors are probably the only option on the used market. (2008 only if you really hate the later body design like I do) Guess many have already figured this out and they are pretty hard to find in good shape with service records. And even then, plenty pricey. Buying a Ford truck that you really want to spend such high bucks on is getting more narrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 In case you haven't noticed some of us still own vehicles with this wonderful design meaning we will be dealing with this "issue" for a little while longer. Since Ford in their infinite wisdom has decided not to offer what I would consider a reasonable replacement for my particular vehicle I will probably be dealing with it longer than most. :shades: Have you experienced any plug breakage since switching to single piece plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 For all of the above reasons, this is why I don't buy new cars. My newest car is 25 years old! I can fix it myself, cheap! Also, my insurance and property taxes are almost non-existent! If you like blowing money, buy a new car every 5 years and make the monthly payment, pay the insurance premiums and property taxes. But not THIS kid! At least somebody out there caught on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Yes, old news. We'll just deal with it too considering the new vehicle options. Never a good solution attempted by Ford for the owners of these engines. The 2008-2010 V-8 motors are probably the only option on the used market. (2008 only if you really hate the later body design like I do) Guess many have already figured this out and they are pretty hard to find in good shape with service records. And even then, plenty pricey. Buying a Ford truck that you really want to spend such high bucks on is getting more narrow. Yeah... $40,000 on a new truck? Screw that. But I wouldn't mind having a late 90's early 2000's F-Super Duty with a V10 in it again. I enjoyed mine I once had. Edited February 27, 2012 by Bored of Pisteon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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