Who are the 47% Romney Says He Doesn't Care About?

[Mark B. Morrow]

In what should come as a surprise to Mitt, many are among his base.

 

http://www.thedailyb...y-attacked.html

 

The Elderly:

 

Social Security benefits aren’t considered taxable income, so if most or all of an elderly person’s income is from Social Security, he or she has no income tax to pay. “Romney is conflating the people who pay no net income tax with the people so dependent on government aid that they have to vote for Obama,” says David Weigel at Slate. “But these aren’t the same people!” In fact, elderly voters voted heavily Republican in the 2010 elections.

 

Some Millionaires: (Maybe even Mitt himself over some of the last 20 years)

 

One big, rich exception: the roughly 3,000 members of the top 0.1 percent of taxpayers—they earned more than $2,178,866 in 2011—who paid no federal income tax because they were hedge-fund managers, real-estate investors, or wealthy financiers whose income is derived from capital gains, which are taxed at very low levels. When that rate is combined with a concept called “tax-loss carryforward,” which Roose says “allows an investor to use last year’s big loss to offset this year’s gains for tax purposes,” these top earners don’t have to pay federal income tax.

 

Of the 47 percent of households that pay no income tax, nearly two thirds still pay payroll tax at the rate of 15.3%. SinceRomney pays no payroll tax on the vast majority of his income which is capital gains, resulting in a net rate 13.9%, THESE PEOPLE PAY A HIGHER RATE THAN ROMNEY DOES.

 

They are from Red States:

8 of the top 10 states for non-income tax payers are Red. (New Mexico and Florida are now swing States despite having elected Republican Governors in 2010)

 

http://www.taxpolicy...-households.cfm

Edited September 18, 2012 by Mark B. Morrow

[RangerM]

What is the specific quote where Mitt said in no uncertain terms, "I don't care about 47% of the population".

 

As I recall he acknowledged that if you received a check from the government, the more likely you are to vote for that government.

[NickF1011]

I don't see anything incorrect about what he said though. Do you believe he (or any Republican) has a shot at winning over any significant number of the people he was referring to? It would be wasted effort.

 

This is about as grossly out of context as the "You didn't build that" stupidity.

Edited September 18, 2012 by NickF1011

[Mark B. Morrow]

I don't see anything incorrect about what he said though. Do you believe he (or any Republican) has a shot at winning over any significant number of the people he was referring to? It would be wasted effort.

 

This is about as grossly out of context as the "You didn't build that" stupidity.

 

Nick, I do agree with you about the context. I am stirring the pot for the people here who twist and turn "you didn't build that" and who believe that Obama thinks there are 57 States.

 

That said, He's still wrong on the facts about who the 47% really are. Many aren't Obama voters, especially those elderly Tea Partiers who showed up for the rallys in 2010, the Red State voters and the few thousand millionaires (which might include Mitt himself sometimes).

Edited September 18, 2012 by Mark B. Morrow

[TomServo92]

I don't see anything incorrect about what he said though. Do you believe he (or any Republican) has a shot at winning over any significant number of the people he was referring to? It would be wasted effort.

 

This is about as grossly out of context as the "You didn't build that" stupidity.

 

This whole election campaign (both sides) has been more about out of context quotes than anything else. It's all about the negative sound bite.

Edited September 18, 2012 by TomServo92

[FordBuyer]

What is the specific quote where Mitt said in no uncertain terms, "I don't care about 47% of the population".

 

As I recall he acknowledged that if you received a check from the government, the more likely you are to vote for that government.

 

What a giant crock of bullshit that percentage used is. To say that every retired person is nothing more than dependent on government is ludicrous in the extreme. I pay property taxes, sales tax, a separate garbage tax, and on and on. Most years I pay estimated tax. This is first year I didn't have to, but that is because I give my federal tax refund back to the government, and most years still have to pay estimated tax except for this year that is anomaly. So I suppose I'm part of the "47% that lives off the government." Even the working poor pays a lot in taxes in may ways if they have utility bills and buy things that are nonfood. Starting this or next year Amazon will starts charging sales tax on everything they sell. Many retired people also pay tax on a portion of their social security and pension depending upon what state they live in.

[FordBuyer]

Don't forget also that many poor people are big into the state lottery and poor billions into that tax pit. They are lined up at every lottery station forking over their food dollars to the government that use them to pay for education mostly.

[xr7g428]

So actually, Mark, you are in agreement with everything he said but the percentage? (The entitlement crowd will lean Obama...)

[FordBuyer]

Nick, I do agree with you about the context. I am stirring the pot for the people here who twist and turn "you didn't build that" and who believe that Obama thinks there are 57 States.

 

That said, He's still wrong on the facts about who the 47% really are. Many aren't Obama voters, especially those elderly Tea Partiers who showed up for the rallys in 2010, the Red State voters and the few thousand millionaires (which might include Mitt himself sometimes).

 

Yeah, that fact always brought a smile to my face...seeing old people on Medicare and Social Security protesting taxes. I got mine, and now all you younger people coming up can live on dog food if you are lucky when you get old and disabled. Come to think of it, dog and cat food is very expensive.

[cal50]

I am stirring the pot for the people here who twist and turn "you didn't build that" and who believe that Obama thinks there are 57 States.

 

 

Congrats~

If its designed to stir the pot / thought, people will think you are an idiot, like Obama.

 

You should be smart enough to avoid such a pathetic cheap shot statement and the only people it will likely appeal to is like minded liberals here. Romney knows and at least he has the balls to say that most people on welfare or the people getting extended or lifetime unemployment benefits will and would never vote for any one be it male, female, black , white or "other" that would take away those same benefits. In this instance its any evil republican type.

[NickF1011]

That said, He's still wrong on the facts about who the 47% really are. Many aren't Obama voters, especially those elderly Tea Partiers who showed up for the rallys in 2010, the Red State voters and the few thousand millionaires (which might include Mitt himself sometimes).

 

I wouldn't really say he's "wrong" per se, as I'm pretty certain he wasn't citing "47%" as a specific factual quantity, but only as the often used representation of the number of people who are dependent on the government dole.

[Mark B. Morrow]

So actually, Mark, you are in agreement with everything he said but the percentage? (The entitlement crowd will lean Obama...)

 

I have no doubt that many of the poor, working poor and middle class who do benefit from government programs like student loans, childcare tax credits, food stamps and extended unemployment, etc. will support Obama. Romney is offering more of the same Trickle Down Economics that haven't worked to bring them up over the last 30 years. Romney's prescription of more tax cuts for the top, won't help those people, so why would they support him?

[mettech]

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -- Benjamin Franklin

[Mark B. Morrow]

I wouldn't really say he's "wrong" per se, as I'm pretty certain he wasn't citing "47%" as a specific factual quantity, but only as the often used representation of the number of people who are dependent on the government dole.

 

He is wrong when he says that the 47% who pay no federal income tax are automatically Obama voters. He's also wrong when he says that they don't care for themselves or take personal responsibility. There are many of the working poor who do take personal responsibility and work their asses off at low wage jobs. By operation of the available exemptions and credits, they pay no federal income tax. Many of them still pay a higher rate than Mitt does on his multi-million dollar income.

 

If Mitt can use the tax code to pay little (or maybe nothing) in Federal Income Tax why should he disparage those on the lower end of the income ladder for using the code provisions that benefit them?

[Ron W.]

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -- Benjamin Franklin

 

Makes you wonder if he meant all the people or government employees such as congress.

[grbeck]

There is a considerable difference between someone who receives Social Security and Medicare after paying taxes for a lifetime and a person dependent on CHIP, SNAP and/or TANF benefits.

 

The first person EARNED those benefits through regular, non-voluntary payments to the federal government. At least, that is what Democrats keep telling us when someone dares to call those programs "entitlements."

 

We're not going to change that definition now.

 

There is also a difference between lowering a person's overall tax rate for a specific type of income (capital gains) and welfare. Regarding the capital gains tax, it was their money in the first place. The federal government is just taking less of it. This is not "welfare." Welfare involves the government sending money collected from other people and businesses to people whose sole claim to it is that they meet certain criteria.

Edited September 18, 2012 by grbeck

[Mark B. Morrow]

There is a considerable difference between someone who receives Social Security and Medicare after paying taxes for a lifetime and a person dependent on CHIP, SNAP and/or TANF benefits.

 

The first person EARNED those benefits through regular, non-voluntary payments to the federal government. At least, that is what Democrats keep telling us when someone dares to call those programs "entitlements."

 

We're not going to change that definition now.

 

There is also a difference between lowering a person's overall tax rate for a specific type of income (capital gains) and welfare. Regarding the capital gains tax, it was their money in the first place. The federal government is just taking less of it. This is not "welfare." Welfare involves the government sending money collected from other people and businesses to people whose sole claim to it is that they meet certain criteria.

 

47% aren't on Welfare.

[grbeck]

47% aren't on Welfare.

 

Mark, I never said that they were. I noted that there is a considerable difference between those who receive benefits under the Social Security and Medicare programs and those who are receiving benefits through various welfare programs (SNAP, TANF, CHIP).

 

The former programs are supposed to be supported by regular, involuntary paycheck deductions from the people who will ultimately benefit from them. The latter programs rely on contributions from taxpayers to support third parties. Big difference.

Edited September 18, 2012 by grbeck

[xr7g428]

So Mark, lets be clear, you are agreeing that the welfare recipients are Obama supporters, only arguing the numbers...

[Versa-Tech]

I have no doubt that many of the poor, working poor and middle class who do benefit from government programs like student loans, childcare tax credits, food stamps and extended unemployment, etc. will support Obama. Romney is offering more of the same Trickle Down Economics that haven't worked to bring them up over the last 30 years. Romney's prescription of more tax cuts for the top, won't help those people, so why would they support him?

Because some people actually have morals and choose not to steal their livelihood from those who are more fortunate. Let's talk about those people; the people who can't afford insane tuition prices, inflated by government handout and loan programs that discourage competitive pricing; the people who can't afford to finance housing because the credit market is adjusted to assume government guaranteed income for low earners; the people who can't afford food, because demand is falsely fostered by food stamps, essentially raising prices; The people who can't afford a reliable used car, because cash for clunkers severely reduced the number of used cars on the market, driving prices skyward.

 

The point is that the entitlement programs have inflated values of basic needs, by providing an inflated demand that simply would not be if these programs did not exist. The participation in such entitlement programs is so high at this point, that market reaction practically forces people, who would otherwise be solvent, to partake in said handouts. if only to balance the bad hand that the entitlement society has dealt them. In essence, people that could be paying their own way, are priced out of the market.

 

Why would these people vote for a system that doesn't fight poverty, but rather insure it?

[Imawhosure]

So Mark, lets be clear, you are agreeing that the welfare recipients are Obama supporters, only arguing the numbers...

 

XR,what do you think is the percentage of people who got wealthy through transfer of wealth, by using class warfare as a reason to do it......besides possibly politicians?

 

By the way=======> a little off topic but have you seen in the financials where GM wants the fed to sell their stock, and quickly? Seems GM is claiming being tied to the government gives them a stigma......or foul odor, as people are refering to them as government motors. They also claim they can't hire the best talent as the fed (meaning Obama) has a salary cap in place.

[RangerM]

By the way=======> a little off topic but have you seen in the financials where GM wants the fed to sell their stock, and quickly? Seems GM is claiming being tied to the government gives them a stigma......or foul odor, as people are refering to them as government motors. They also claim they can't hire the best talent as the fed (meaning Obama) has a salary cap in place.

 

Bring it back on topic, can anyone who works at GM rightfully claim NOT to be dependent on the Federal Government?

[rn4]

Bring it back on topic, can anyone who works at GM rightfully claim NOT to be dependent on the Federal Government?

Can anyone who lives in The United States rightfully claim NOT to be dependent on the Federal Government?

[Langston Hughes]

So Mark, lets be clear, you are agreeing that the welfare recipients are Obama supporters, only arguing the numbers...

 

Is he saying that there are Obama supporters on welfare? Yes, there are. And are there Romney supporters on welfare yes there are. To act like all welfare recipients and all those who work and end up below the tax threshold are lazy entitlement economy sucking Liberals voting for Obama because he is giving people free stuff is bullshit.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-17/the-right-is-wrong-to-pin-obama-s-edge-on-welfare-state.html

Edited September 19, 2012 by Langston Hughes

[RangerM]

 

Can anyone who lives in The United States rightfully claim NOT to be dependent on the Federal Government?

 

Yes. Anyone who is a net taxpayer and not a net tax consumer.