TomServo92 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Because GM. We've all followed their development drama the past 3 years with projects being delayed /cancelled / reintroduced / up for discussion / (or "hey let's change every launch schedule to get out some mildly upgraded pickups"). They have no direction and I don't trust them to have a valid entry in the timeframe required, little to no work required or not. If a new vehicle intro requires this transmission to be done in certain amount of time in order to launch, then this could make the MFT fiasco look like a hangnail for Ford. GM's issues have been more about product development processes and marketing than engineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) Many large and successful companies enter into joint ventures. It has nothing to do with in-house talent but more of combining that talent with a partner to achieve greater value than could be achieved alone. Both companies get two transmission designs for a much lower cost than if they designed alone. I know that joint ventures are generally smart. That's not my complaint. It's the who it is with. Hey, if you guys are comfortable with it, I'll walk away from the ledge. Edited September 29, 2012 by Intrepidatious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 If a new vehicle intro requires this transmission to be done in certain amount of time in order to launch, then this could make the MFT fiasco look like a hangnail for Ford. That could be a concern, but like TomServo said this is Ford and GM both getting a 2 for 1. Ford could likely not pull off developing 2 different trannys at the same time. Besides, GM makes good trannys. Ask BMW - they bought some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 That could be a concern, but like TomServo said this is Ford and GM both getting a 2 for 1. Ford could likely not pull off developing 2 different trannys at the same time. Besides, GM makes good trannys. Ask BMW - they bought some. Yep. GM as a whole is a hot mess. But that doesn't mean they do everything wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) If a new vehicle intro requires this transmission to be done in certain amount of time it doesn't. That's not how Ford works. Transmission is expected to have certain mount points, and be within certain maximum dimensions, and will be plug-n-play into the lineup when ready. In fact, the housing may be Ford's own design instead of GM's, to fit their mounting and installation considerations. And as TomServo pointed out, GM doesn't do *everything* wrong (certainly the CTS is a decent product--ill-advised, but quite capable). Edited September 29, 2012 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I can see it now, 1.0 Econoost Fusion with 9-speed auto......120 lb ft of snarl and 47 mpg from an ICE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Realisticly when will the 10 speed show up in the F-150 and Silverado? 2016 MY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) Realisticly when will the 10 speed show up in the F-150 and Silverado? 2016 MY? The companies began work on the transmission program early this year, one supplier source said. They still are in the design phase and likely won't be prepared to start production before 2015, the source said. Read more: http://www.autonews....5#ixzz27uW1cI5P Interesting that GM is proceeding with developing 8-speed auto for RWD, presumably for 2014 but now very scaled back and apparently Ford dropped its 8-speed auto plans last year before signing up to Joint Venture... Edited September 30, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 They're proceeding with it because they're GM. Not the best management at that outfit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Interesting that GM is proceeding with developing 8-speed auto for RWD, presumably for 2014 but now very scaled back and apparently Ford dropped its 8-speed auto plans last year before signing up to Joint Venture... imho 2014cy is timely & does/could 'scaled back' mean suitable for low volume production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 That could be a concern, but like TomServo said this is Ford and GM both getting a 2 for 1. Ford could likely not pull off developing 2 different trannys at the same time. Besides, GM makes good trannys. Ask BMW - they bought some. Jaguar was also using GM transmissions in the XJ the first couple of years that Ford owned them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 The Automatic transmission has turned into something of a commodity product that can be differentiated by software, they can either cooperate on a R&D or source it from the same suppliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Sorry guys, but if you think partnering (and relying on) the ultra-mismanaged GM to design something as important as your next generation of transmissions is somehow smarter then using the design of ZF (mind you Chrysler builds the transmissions in their own factory) and has already proven itself... then by all means, carry on. Any money saved in scale is going to be lost in design hell when GM can't agree on which ends connects to the engine. You realize that by GM taking the reigns on the FWD transmission means that it will be under the hood of your next generation Fusion/Focus/Taurus? ...and you are OK with that? Wow. Here's a picture for you: Just because their management sucks, doesn't mean their engineering team sucks. And haven't GM's front drive trannies been fairly decent? And it's not like Ford is just going to say "give us a tranny". Ford will have a lot of input and oversight as to what goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Just because their management sucks, doesn't mean their engineering team sucks. And haven't GM's front drive trannies been fairly decent? And it's not like Ford is just going to say "give us a tranny". Ford will have a lot of input and oversight as to what goes on. Exactly. We have the JV 6f35 in both our fusion and escape. We have had no issues, they shift smoothly, get good milage, and they down shift at the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) From my experience, GM Automatic transmissions where normally better then their Ford counterparts. The 6F seems to be a good piece of kit, and is far better then the giant POS Ford did called the 5R55W and AXOD, found on the 2002 Explorer (problems where finally taken care of after 2 years) and the AXOD was a giant POS that grenaded itself every 60K miles. Edited October 1, 2012 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 From my experience, GM Automatic transmissions where normally better then their Ford counterparts. The 6F seems to be a good piece of kit, and is far better then the giant POS Ford did called the 5R55W... I don't remember if the 5R55W is the same family of transmission as the 5R55N and 5R55S, but the latter two are actually direct descendants of the slushbox found in the Pinto... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I don't remember if the 5R55W is the same family of transmission as the 5R55N and 5R55S, but the latter two are actually direct descendants of the slushbox found in the Pinto... It was really just a 4 speed overdrive that cleverly engaged the overdrive twice to get 5 gears. 1, 1+OD, 2, 3, 3+OD It worked but the timing required to make it smooth and/or fast was difficult. It should be noted that it was also the first Ford transmission with SelectShift (2000 Lincoln LS - launched in March 1999). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 ds91776..what in the HELL are you talking about?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 A sail boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I don't remember if the 5R55W is the same family of transmission as the 5R55N and 5R55S, but the latter two are actually direct descendants of the slushbox found in the Pinto... According to the Wiki article its based on the C3 automatic transmission...the big problem with it in the 02 Explorer was it was supposed to be maintenance free..which didn't pan out. The AXOD was used in the first and second gen Taurus and was nitroious for grenading every 60K or so. My parents 89 Taurus Wagon had its transmission go at 60K, then my dad sold it to a friend of his and it did it again at 112K miles or so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 According to the Wiki article its based on the C3 automatic transmission...the big problem with it in the 02 Explorer was it was supposed to be maintenance free..which didn't pan out. The AXOD was used in the first and second gen Taurus and was nitroious for grenading every 60K or so. My parents 89 Taurus Wagon had its transmission go at 60K, then my dad sold it to a friend of his and it did it again at 112K miles or so! The trans in my 2002 Taurus doesn't have the greatest reputation either. So far, so good, but at 35,000 miles it had hard time engaging into overdrive, and it took $100 trans flush to get it to go into overdrive smoothly again. I know lots of other people who own my generation Taurus have had major trans issues. I know I'm not taking any chances and will do another trans flush near 70,000 mile mark. And I will never own a 9 or 10 speed trans when most speed limits are in 45mph territory. I keep my Taurus in OD mode and that is enough gear shifting for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 EAOD was way better than the AXOD, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Something tells me these wiz-bang trannys are going to be very expensive to maintain... ...And that lends me to question whether such measures, fostered by government mandates, are really serving the market at all. When does this pursuit of MPGs end? At what point do the costs of the equipment outweigh the savings at the pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Well, honestly, there's little maintenance involved with the gears themselves, and with servo motors and electronic controls, you don't have to worry about the hydraulic logic circuits clogging up, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 But then, you have to wonder by 2016 where Hybrids will be, the electric CVT looks a deceptively simple solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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